NSW U16 Trial Games and Selections 2011

[ned]

I have now attended approximately 4 State Championships in my time and I always come away from each with a bad taste in my mouth over the format of the Competition. I understand and take on board the fact that junior players are only permitted to play 100 minutes of rugby each day, however how can the NSWJRU's self proclaimed 'SHOW PIECE' ever be representative of a proper competiton when the teams in each pool are not given an opportunity to play all of the others in the same pool? I have a suggestion! Dispense with the Regional Championship over a July school holiday's weekend but hold a State Championship over a whole week of the said holidays.

Such a format would give ample opportunity for each pool team to play the others within their draw which would dispense with the often unfair 'For' and 'Against' that has to seperate more than two teams on equal points (especially where one of the teams has had a bye and given 20 points). Such a format could also introduce Quarter Finals, which would dispense with the numerous complaints when pools are percieved as being unequal. With the top four teams in each pool going through any perceptions of inequality would be addressed in the knock-out finals stage (i.e. where a weak pool delivers teams to the semi-finals where it is commonly held view that the other pool had much stronger teams that were not able to get through). Most importantly at the end of the carnival all boys should have theoretically played enough games from which selectors can pick the respective SJRU and Country rep teams. This would inject an element of consistency where potentially great players would be able to overcome a one (or two) off bad game.

I know there will be some of you that will say that families tend to go away for the holidays, or that it is too much rugby, and in response I would say this. Firstly no self respecting rugby family would ever let a holiday come in the way of a rugby tournament (that is what the other week is for). Secondly, increase the squad sizes to 25 to allow for the resting of players. Additionally there will be others that will say the cost to families (particulalrly those travelling from rural NSW) will be overly onerous. In response I would state that such families bear the the same overall cost anyway. Just add both the State (2-3 days) and Regional (3 days) Championship together.

Better still, perhaps 'Possibles' and 'Probables' teams could be selected from such a Championship, with such teams playing at a later date (i.e. a week or two prior to the City v Country game). This would allow for players who have sustained injuries over the week to recover from the same. Such a game would also allow for those players who never had an opportunity to shine as a result of being in a weaker district team (these would be the players that selectors recognised something special in but needed to see more, or the player came with high recommondations from their club/district coach).

What are your thoughts!

Regards,
Newbie

I think this is a great idea, however, the selectors and the gurus from the nts program don't pay much attention to the form of players at the state championships. Instead they select players for Southern Zone, Western Zone, Northern Zone, the Barbarians and Sydney that either haven't played at the state championships or had limited time on the field due to injury or lack of form. The majority of Junior players go out and put their bodies on the line and believe that if they play well enough they will gain higher representative honors only to be not looked at because they are not in the nts or don't have a reputation from previous years. It is disappointing and could effect the future of the state championships as players decide not to participate.

 

[CTPE]

You could run all sorts of conspiracy theories if you wanted...

How all but 3 of the Barbarians side are from the two coaches' Western and Southern Zones...

How there are 14 B grade club players compared to 9 A grade club players in Met South...

How Northern Zone has more players from the beaten semi-finalists than the winners...

Alternatively, how Northern Zone has 6 C grade club players, 7 B grade club players as opposed to only 10 A graders.

It is what it is...

And always has been!!!

I was surprised myself that there weren't more Gordon players in the MNZ team in particular Tom Welch. Saw him a fair bit on the weekend and was impressed with his involvement and aggression. Do you know anything about him Malcsy?

 

[Man on the hill]

Moth- To your knowledge - Do the selectors in each region follow a similar process when making selections. Another way to ask this question is- In your opinion are they all consistent? The reason I ask is .. Newbie added an earlier comment to his surprise (and many others) the rationale of the MWZ selection. Hope you can help..

No I don't know how each set of selectors approach the task. Strangely – the ARU used to run courses for everything including how to do a presentation, but I don’t recall them ever having a course for selectors!

As a rational person, I surmise that most players will already be known to them, so they would have a series of questions to ask and answer on these players – i.e. confirm or deny their expectations.

If they are fair dinkum – there is still room on the list for “new finds”.

If I was writing the manual...

Selectors would review their findings independently – the sociologists can explain the phenomenon of group think.

Selectors would be well served to observe in specialist fields – what a backs coach will be able to tell you about tight 5 play is not much (and the reverse holds true), and watching 30 players in action all at once – well that’s just not going to work in a 50 minute match, followed by another & another & another, it would be too exhausting.

Select key players first and build the team around them - i.e. who are the 5 (or so) players you absolutely have to have to make it work.

Ultimately - it is all magnificently subjective and therefore open to opinion.

 

[Malcsy]

And always has been!!!

I was surprised myself that there weren't more Gordon players in the MNZ team in particular Tom Welch. Saw him a fair bit on the weekend and was impressed with his involvement and aggression. Do you know anything about him Malcsy?

I've seen him play a few times before and he is indeed good. However, he is up against some quality in the back row... Another notable player to miss out in the back row is Max Cook, the 8 from Norths. Outstanding runner of the ball and defensively sound. Also NSW last year. Can't believe the Barbarians didn't pick either of them up.

Don't think the lack of Gordon players is really such a surprise. If you look at the final, Kellaway was a major contributor to the success of Gordon and he is not available. The selectors appear (largely) to have gone for Norths forwards and Gordon backs. This makes sense in my opinion...

Also, only 9 of this year's MNZ crop were in the team last year, 8 of those from Norths, with only Docker from Gordon.

Looking at the North, West and Baa Baa teams I expect a fairly even competition between the three... Should be interesting...

Here is another conspiracy theory for you...

Western Zone - % of players in State Champ Semis 25% - % of players in Sydney Zone sides 41.3%

Southern Zone - % of players in State Champs Semis 0% - % of players in Sydney Zone sides 30.4%

Northern Zone - % of players in State Champs Semis 50% - % of players in Sydney Zone sides 28.3%

 

[Man on the hill]

Not sure what you ate telling us with your %s - no code, it's late, please be straightforward.

 

[Malcsy]

Not sure what you ate telling us with your %s - no code, it's late, please be straightforward.

Just saying, you can't satisfy all people all of the time. The selections are what they are. And that's that...

 

[beaver]

I am not understanding how you can MWZ if you didn't make it in the semi or even come close to the finals of the State Champs and you still get selected - go figure !!!

 

[beaver]

sorry should read ' how you can make MWZ' ...

 

[magpie4ever]

Anyone want you predict the result of the CCC vs ISA trial on Sunday.

 

[Rugby Tragic]

I think it will be a very tight game, both teams have got alot of talent.

 

[magpie4ever]

I think it will be a very tight game, both teams have got alot of talent.

How does the ISA side rate, against say CAS, GPS or CHS. I have a bloke in the CCC side.

 

[Rugby Tragic]

I would say on par with CAS team, alot of the team just played for their respective district team in the state champs and alot are also now involved with the up coming regional champs in July. At this age they all play plenty of rugby.

 

[International Badboy]

I am not understanding how you can MWZ if you didn't make it in the semi or even come close to the finals of the State Champs and you still get selected - go figure !!!

maybe because it has something to do with your team and where they play? do you want boys from gordon and norths in MWZ?

 

[bwaddles]

Just saying, you can't satisfy all people all of the time. The selections are what they are. And that's that...

I'm sure the Barbarians will be very competitive but I find its absolutely hysterical that so few Met North players made this team and so many Parramatta and Parramatta B (Penrith) made the team.Gordon won the title and get 2 players selected,the 2 Parra sides get 13 selected----------------very funny.

 

[kiwi playing in Oz]

I am not understanding how you can MWZ if you didn't make it in the semi or even come close to the finals of the State Champs and you still get selected - go figure !!!

Yeah the selectors need to realise that the players themselves are not stupid either! The boys know who the good players are that deserve to be selected. People wonder why boys give up playing for rep honours because of it. It's a bloody joke really. I'm waiting for the day when my son says 'stuff this, what's the point?' Robbie Deans will bring Aussie rugby up to scratch and as a kiwi I'm afraid they will win the World Cup - why? because he's an outsider who was never involved in the politics of Aussie rugby. He cleaned out new players that had been selected and replaced them with players who deserve to be in the team. That also needs to happen in junior club rugby.

 

[Rugby Tragic]

I'm sure the Barbarians will be very competitive but I find its absolutely hysterical that so few Met North players made this team and so many Parramatta and Parramatta B (Penrith) made the team.Gordon won the title and get 2 players selected,the 2 Parra sides get 13 selected----------------very funny.

Bwaddles you are right, the Barbarians will be very competitive without the Met North players

 

[Man on the hill]

In truth the selectors may have done themselves a disservice

 

[CTPE]

Went with a Grammar dad to Kings today to watch his son play in the main game. Below is a report on the 16As game I'm just duplicating from the NSW GPS thread (Kings 93 Grammar 0):

We turned up at 1 pm expecting to watch the thirds but found it was Kings v Grammar in the 16As. Kings 16As are a very, very good side and I've seen quite a number of these boys before in the ARU JGS program. They led 43-0 at half time and didn't let up in the second half with the scoreboard indicating that they scored 15 tries.

Whilst Grammar were obviously totally outclassed the thing that impressed me was that this Kings side played team football for the whole of the game despite the inferiority of their opposition. Their halves Davis (9) and Tulloch (10) just tore holes in Grammar's defence and laid on a heap of tries for their outside backs particularly Carter (13). I'd be very surprised if they're not the GPS U16 nos 9 and 10 and given the amount of football they've played together for Country and Illawarra will also be the likely NSW Schools U16 halves. Very impressed with both breakaways Macalman (yet again!!) and Black who both ran like centres scoring at least a double each. Bateman (LHP) and Greentree (5) did a heap of the dirty work at ruck time and delivered the good quality ball their backs just devoured.

 

[beaver]

The ARU needs to really pick up their game if they want the young talented players to keep playing rugby. 'Kiwi playing in OZ' is so right about the boys knowing who should & shouldn't be in the teams. It amazes me how some players get through, its definitely not on performance, maybe its based on who you know !!

 

[cold coffee]

Anyone want you predict the result of the CCC vs ISA trial on Sunday.

Here you go Magpie... CCC by at least 3 tries...