NSW Schools -Trial Games and Selections 2010

[Wrinkled Rat]

Catch,

I think you have answered your own question, "for which he only has a week to prepare."

With the 'official trials' last Friday, a week to prepare is way too skinny. The season for Auggies and Hills Sports High started way back in Easter and I have no doubt that Selectors have been looking at games outside of the official competitions. GPS and to a certain extent CAS shoot themeselves in the foot (again) by another slow start out of the blocks. That's why I think there are two separate teams selected with each way claims.

 

[catchpole]

Wrinkled Rat,

You're probably right again. I hadn't considered your position until it was posted. Very insightful.

 

[The Chosen]

Catch,

I think you have answered your own question, "for which he only has a week to prepare."

With the 'official trials' last Friday, a week to prepare is way too skinny. The season for Auggies and Hills Sports High started way back in Easter and I have no doubt that Selectors have been looking at games outside of the official competitions. GPS and to a certain extent CAS shoot themeselves in the foot (again) by another slow start out of the blocks. That's why I think there are two separate teams selected with each way claims.

Not entirely correct and you should refer to earlier thread Curtainer -Raiser to Waratahs vs Lions 12/03/10.
Curtainer-raiser was playhed by St.Augustines vs Knox Grammar and Auggies won 31-15 (5 Tries to 3 Tries).
In this thread I referred to Auggies very slick backline but also noted that Knox shadowed them in the forwards.

Also interesting was the fact that Knox obviously used match as a `trial' substituting up to 12 players whilst Auggies used about 1 or 2 reserves only( i foreced sue to yellow card)

 

[I like to watch]

Not entirely correct and you should refer to earlier thread Curtainer -Raiser to Waratahs vs Lions 12/03/10.
Curtainer-raiser was playhed by St.Augustines vs Knox Grammar and Auggies won 31-15 (5 Tries to 3 Tries).
In this thread I referred to Auggies very slick backline but also noted that Knox shadowed them in the forwards.

Also interesting was the fact that Knox obviously used match as a `trial' substituting up to 12 players whilst Auggies used about 1 or 2 reserves only( i foreced sue to yellow card)

It's funny what you get out of games, I got there early to watch this game, and my recollection was that Augs had them shot to pieces & in the 2nd half the game broke down with lots of stops & starts with Knox scoring a couple at the end making the scoreline a little flattering to the Knox boys. However no doubt at all the Knox forwards got the better of the St Augs pack
Don't recall how many reserves each side used bit if you are right, it was a good trial for Knox cos they got better at the end. Did it change the makeup of the run on side for Knox?

 

[catchpole]

Chosen,

As an aside, I was at the Test Match at ANZ Stadium on 19 June 2010 and wondered why we no longer have Schoolboy curtain raisers and minor representative games on the program. The answer that was given to me by an official was that with the advent of professionalism in Rugby, international sides are required under contract to have access to the playing field for approximately 60-90 minutes prior to the match for warm-up and drills thereby eliminating the opportunity for early games.

I believe that Schoolboy curtain raisers are an important feature of grassroots rugby and talent development. Your response and reference to your posting in March 2010 is a classic example.

I didn't know much about St.Augustines College until joining G & G Rugby. After Friday evening's matches I searched St.Augustines and found their website via Wikipedia. The path was exteremely interesting although perhaps not entirely reliable.

Just as the Wrinkled Rat suggests, ISA have already enjoyed a fair bit of Rugby by the time CAS emerge from Summer and definitely by the time GPS are even thinking about Rugby. The Wikipedia page on St.Augustines, and their own website, states that they have already undertaken a New Zealand Tour in 2010 which I presume was just after the match against Knox Grammar School at the SFS, in the following school holidays.

Under their coach, St.Augustines has achieved an enormous amount of success in just 5 short years. His formulaic approach to preparation, hardening and selection of his teams has obviously been developed over the years at St Edmonds, Australian Schools, Southern Districts and Waverley College. The similarities in his systematic method of the establishment of a successful rugby program are well documented as is his long list of success.

The Wrinkled Rat is right again in his observation that if the GPS, and to a slightly lesser extent, the CAS, wish to compete on a level playing field, they must surely consider adapting their sporting programs and calendar.

 

[Wrinkled Rat]

Not entirely correct and you should refer to earlier thread Curtainer -Raiser to Waratahs vs Lions 12/03/10.
Curtainer-raiser was playhed by St.Augustines vs Knox Grammar and Auggies won 31-15 (5 Tries to 3 Tries).
In this thread I referred to Auggies very slick backline but also noted that Knox shadowed them in the forwards.

Also interesting was the fact that Knox obviously used match as a `trial' substituting up to 12 players whilst Auggies used about 1 or 2 reserves only( i foreced sue to yellow card)

Yes full marks to both schools for getting that fixture off the ground, was a great experience for all the boys with Robbie Deans addressing them. Auggies were slow out of the blocks but had the game wrapped up shortly after half time. Two late tries to the Knox forwards. Mokifisi was carded for pulling down the ruck. Jordan Reid and Hughie Alexander were stand outs for Knox. Vescio was strong on the right wing and Trim played well at 10 for Auggies with Brisby playing at a Touch Carnival but to be fair, you and I could play 10 with that cattle outside us.

 

[skullring]

Okay everyone. Someone tell me how the best team this year: GPS, didn't dominate selections in firsts like they rightfully should have, and the second best team: CAS got a tiny amount of players in. ISA who were the the third best team make up the majority of 1sts..... Oh please. All this is doing is diluting the top GPS and CAS and also CHS talent such as Millar, Roche and Halloway who made the team like they were supposed to, as well as the few ISA boys who deserve their spots such as Brisby, Smith and Dombkins, watering their talent down with the ISA players Papahatzis was so eager to put into NSW, the team he is coaching, basically no matter how his ISA team goes. Since NSW 1s isn't a true indication of the NSW talent pool, I am doubting they will even have the strength to beat QLD 2s, and despite the fact that NSW 2s starting team are fairly strong on paper almost everywere, they're weak in a few places and they have a particularly weak bench as it is the 4th strength players in those positions, and that may affect them on the final day of round matches too, once a few injuries come about, and won't be placed well to topple the might ofQLD 1. I am thinking a NSW 1s vs NSW 2s 3rd place play off is very likely.

 

[Wrinkled Rat]

Okay everyone. Someone tell me how the best team this year: GPS, didn't dominate selections in firsts like they rightfully should have, and the second best team: CAS got a tiny amount of players in. ISA who were the the third best team make up the majority of 1sts..... Oh please. .

Skull,
Simple;
1. GPS did dominate, having the largest share of the NSW pie with 16 selected. In my opinion that was about 2 or 3 spots over the odds that should gave gone to CAS, Jordan Reid in particular
2. GPS did not play or beat ISA. Yes, CAS pipped ISA on the bell but ISA put on 5 or 6 more tries over CHS
3. Whilst the other schools in the competitions where training and playing trials here and overseas, the GPS schools were still on easter egg hunts at home before coming back to board after the April holidays
4. You may be right that QLD get over NSW but it will not be on selectors erring, more QLD playing well.
5, Perhaps we should get behind and support them, the boys I have spoken to across all 4 comps (some made it, some didn't but all) are in unison that they want a NSW victory. If, sorry WHEN the 1's or 2's lift the trophy then the entire shadow group and those that played last Friday all come up a peg or two in pride as well as stature in Oz rugby, they will be the current understudys' to the premier rugby state.
6. Queue national anthem as he gently hobbles off the soap box

 

[I like to watch]

Okay everyone. Someone tell me how the best team this year: GPS, didn't dominate selections in firsts like they rightfully should have, and the second best team: CAS got a tiny amount of players in. ISA who were the the third best team make up the majority of 1sts..... Oh please. All this is doing is diluting the top GPS and CAS and also CHS talent such as Millar and Halloway who made the team like they were supposed to, as well as the few ISA boys who deserve their spots such as Brisby and Dombkins, watering their talent down with the ISA players Papahatzis was so eager to put into NSW, the team he is coaching, basically no matter how his ISA team goes. Since NSW 1s isn't a true indication of the NSW talent pool, I am doubting they will even have the strength to beat QLD 2s, and despite the fact that NSW 2s starting team are fairly strong on paper almost everywere, they're weak in a few places and they have a particularly weak bench as it is the 4th strength players in those positions, and that may affect them on the final day of round matches too, once a few injuries come about, and won't be placed well to topple the might ofQLD 1. I am thinking a NSW 1ss vs NSW 2s 3rd place play off is very likely.

Every year one side is over represented, last year CAS were lucky IMO to get 6 backs in, at least this year it is obvious to all that someone is accountable. Papa will be a champ or a chump. Lets hope he is a champ

 

[waves]

All the club teams the boys have played or play for, as already stated on the forum there are a number of Warringah and Gordon Players hence why these two team dominated the Sate Championships over the years


NSW Schools 1st XV 2010
1. John Mokofisi, St Augustine's College - Manly
2. Hugh Roach, Newington College - Gordon
3. Guy Miller, The King's School - Parramatta
4. Rhys Dombkins, St Augustine's College - Hunter/Warringah
5. Jed Holloway, Waverley College - North Coast
6. James Dargaville, Mater Maria, Warriewood - Warringah
7. Stuart Goodman, Barker College - Gordon
8. Jason Havea, Hills SHS - League Storm
9. Ben Black, Chevalier College - Illawarra
10. Sam Brisby, St Augustine's College - Aus. Touch
11. Declan Smith, Oakhill College - Eastwood
12. Jack Purcell, St Augustine's College - ?
13. Malietoa Hingano, St Augustine's College - ?
14. Matthew Hulme, St Joseph's College, Hunters Hill - ?
15. Luke Keary, Oakhill College - Nrl Manly
16. Jack Wallace, Waverley College - Easts
17. Hugh Alexander, Knox Grammar School - Eastwood/Gordon
18. Allan Ala'alatoa, Newington College - Wests
19. Steve Cummins, Hills SHS - Wests
20. Gordon Broome, Asquith BHS - Gordon
21. Waldo Wessels, Endeavour SHS - Souths/Uni
22. Samuel Muller, Mudgee HS - Wests
23. Asipeli Fine, Waverley College - Easts

NSW Schools 2nd XV 2010
1. Jed Gillespie, The King's School - Eastwood
2. Tom Kauffmann, St Augustine's College - Warringah
3. Rhys Brodie, St Andrew's Cathedral School - Uni
4. Benn Melrose, The King's School - Parramatta/Warringah
5. Harry Hosegood, The Scots College - ?
6. Boyd Killingworth, The King's School - Warringah
7. Tom Connor, The King's School - Parramatta/Illawarra
8. Joel Luani, Newington College - Eastwood/Wests
9. Tim Donlan, St Ignatius' College - Warringah
10. Ed Wylie, The King's School - Warringah
11. Jason Siege, Hills SHS - Nrl Eels
12. Apolosi Latinupulu, Newington College - Southern Districts
13. Chris Ingate, The King's School - Gordon
14. Cameron Clark, Knox Grammar School - Gordon
15. James Vaka, Narara Valley HS - Central Coast
16. Sam Baraket, The Scots College -
17. Josh Calderen, Oakhill College - Eastwood
18. Robby McNeill, Barker College - Gordon
19. Michael Wells, St Ignatius' College - Gordon
20. Sam Vaka, St Augustine's College - Nrl Manly
21. Tom Koerstz, St Stanislaus College -
22. Gerard McCallum, Hills SHS - Parramatta Rugby/Eastwood/ Nrl Eels
23. Samuel Ahofono, Hills SHS - Nrl Eels

Would be the only Gordon players who would look most likely to play 1sts Colts first year out of school.

 

[waves]

All the club teams the boys have played or play for, as already stated on the forum there are a number of Warringah and Gordon Players hence why these two team dominated the Sate Championships over the years


NSW Schools 1st XV 2010
1. John Mokofisi, St Augustine's College - Manly
2. Hugh Roach, Newington College - Gordon
3. Guy Miller, The King's School - Parramatta
4. Rhys Dombkins, St Augustine's College - Hunter/Warringah
5. Jed Holloway, Waverley College - North Coast
6. James Dargaville, Mater Maria, Warriewood - Warringah
7. Stuart Goodman, Barker College - Gordon
8. Jason Havea, Hills SHS - League Storm
9. Ben Black, Chevalier College - Illawarra
10. Sam Brisby, St Augustine's College - Aus. Touch
11. Declan Smith, Oakhill College - Eastwood
12. Jack Purcell, St Augustine's College - ?
13. Malietoa Hingano, St Augustine's College - ?
14. Matthew Hulme, St Joseph's College, Hunters Hill - ?
15. Luke Keary, Oakhill College - Nrl Manly
16. Jack Wallace, Waverley College - Easts
17. Hugh Alexander, Knox Grammar School - Eastwood/Gordon
18. Allan Ala'alatoa, Newington College - Wests
19. Steve Cummins, Hills SHS - Wests
20. Gordon Broome, Asquith BHS - Gordon
21. Waldo Wessels, Endeavour SHS - Souths/Uni
22. Samuel Muller, Mudgee HS - Wests
23. Asipeli Fine, Waverley College - Easts

NSW Schools 2nd XV 2010
1. Jed Gillespie, The King's School - Eastwood
2. Tom Kauffmann, St Augustine's College - Warringah
3. Rhys Brodie, St Andrew's Cathedral School - Uni
4. Benn Melrose, The King's School - Parramatta/Warringah
5. Harry Hosegood, The Scots College - ?
6. Boyd Killingworth, The King's School - Warringah
7. Tom Connor, The King's School - Parramatta/Illawarra
8. Joel Luani, Newington College - Eastwood/Wests
9. Tim Donlan, St Ignatius' College - Warringah
10. Ed Wylie, The King's School - Warringah
11. Jason Siege, Hills SHS - Nrl Eels
12. Apolosi Latinupulu, Newington College - Southern Districts
13. Chris Ingate, The King's School - Gordon
14. Cameron Clark, Knox Grammar School - Gordon
15. James Vaka, Narara Valley HS - Central Coast
16. Sam Baraket, The Scots College -
17. Josh Calderen, Oakhill College - Eastwood
18. Robby McNeill, Barker College - Gordon
19. Michael Wells, St Ignatius' College - Gordon
20. Sam Vaka, St Augustine's College - Nrl Manly
21. Tom Koerstz, St Stanislaus College -
22. Gerard McCallum, Hills SHS - Parramatta Rugby/Eastwood/ Nrl Eels
23. Samuel Ahofono, Hills SHS - Nrl Eels

Would be the only players who would look most likely to play 1sts Colts first year out of school.

 

[catchpole]

Ghost,

Fearless as usual. Like you I was initially bent all out of shape about the imbalance of the selections. I have now resigned myself to supporting NSW against Queensland next week as I am sure you have as well. I won't be attending so will be relying on reports from LG and Whispers.

Unfortunately I am still left with a residual bitterness regarding the injustice that a number of NSW player have suffered at the expense of expediency, politics or nepotism.

Schoolboy Rugby Coaching appears to be every bit as ruthless at Federal Politics. John Papahatzis must be a driven man.

Unfortunately for some of the disappointed players who wish to continue with their Rugby, the path ahead is now even more difficult due to this missed chance. I hope that the ARU spends time with the boys that narrowly missed out to encourage them to continue in the game. Effective communication at all levels of the game between players and management is a necessity.

 

[rugbywhisperer]

I am not sure what is happening with regard to the ARU and potential academy players.
It appears from initial observations that the ARU is vetting ALL state academy nominations and there is certainly a much reduced payment fee for such players.
One line of thought is that they are trying to prevent the stockpiling of players (- eg: Qld having enough stock of outside back to last into next century,) over payment of players who untimately don't deliver, prevent raiding by S14/15 clubs.
So in light of this there may well be some plan by the ARU to have a definite pathway and associated funding for the lads with potential who may have missed out. I certainly hope so.

 

[Informer]

Would be the only Gordon players who would look most likely to play 1sts Colts first year out of school.

Broome is already playing 3 grade Colts for Gordon and would be no certainty for firsts if Goodman turns out for them as they already have McCaffrey and Fels ahead of him this year and presumably coming back next year

 

[Spewn]

Goodman will be with Sydney Uni.

 

[Lindommer]

Surely the lure of living in God's country on the Northern Beaches will win a few over. They'll all go to the city? Tell me it ain't so.

I think you'll find a good half a dozen of those NSW Schoolboys turning out for the Pirates next year. Check who's coming first in the Colts Club championship at the moment. Hint: it's not Uni.

 

[Spewn]

Once they get to Colts, they will see that the good CV from schoolboys does not last long (or it should not).

I should add that some of this discussion, as always, centres on flankers. It seems to me there are two types of open side flankers. Those like Phil Waugh, lots of muscle, one-dimensional, hard in at a breakdown. And those like George Smith, more complete footlballers, able to pilfer and tackle but also able to offer something in attack and jsut having an all round good game. There is a perception by some, even with the selectors of the schools teams, that an open side flanker nees to be at every breakdown, doing something. THe mark of a good open side is not how fast they run or how many breakdowns they get to, but whether they have an influence at the breakdowns they decide to put themselves into. This could be a crucial clean out, pilfer or latch to ram someone forward. The good flankers have the intelligence or instinct to turn up at the right time rather than looking as though they are doing something all the time. It is better to have 95% impact at 50% of the breakdowns rather than less than 50% impact at 90% of the breakdowns. In my opinion, the NSW selectors clearly think that the Phil Waugh style of player is better than the George Smith type of player. Goodman and Broome are much more like Waugh. Pretty much crash and bash as I have said before. Connor is a much better all round footballer. I actually think there is a better all round footballer who plays flanker who missed out from the NSW teams all together, but I'' leave that to one side. I prefer the SMith type of flanker to the Waugh type of flanker. That's why I think the NSW slectors got it wrong in that key position. I don't even think Goodman is a number 7 at all. Lots of grunting and pushing and manhandling, but gets outclassed against a better footballer. I'd prefer to see him at hooker, although obviously there is a bit of competition there. I twill be interesting to see what style of flanker the reds have gone with. Does anyone know?

 

[Informer]

Goodman will be with Sydney Uni.

Is that official? I would have thought he would go with Gordon given he played all his junior footy there

 

[I like to watch]

Ghost,


Unfortunately I am still left with a residual bitterness regarding the injustice that a number of NSW player have suffered at the expense of expediency, politics or nepotism.

Schoolboy Rugby Coaching appears to be every bit as ruthless at Federal Politics. John Papahatzis must be a driven man.

Every year deserving kids get dudded by the process, with the best will in the world the way it is set up, there will always be kids in that are lucky & kids that are considered unlucky by most.
last year was a disgrace I will not name the weaker kids that were selected as that is not fair, but there were plenty of them.
The only thing that has changed this year, is that the unlucky ones this year all appear to come from expensive schools.

 

[rugbywhisperer]

I think you'll find a good half a dozen of those NSW Schoolboys turning out for the Pirates next year. Check who's coming first in the Colts Club championship at the moment. Hint: it's not Uni.

You guys at Concord look pretty set then:lmao::yay:lmao::yay