Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
I think that the NSWJRU has 2 members - the SJRU and the CJRU (from the Garling report).
Unfortunately, boldness requires change and change means that the chieftains of petty empires must relinquish power and influence.
NSW JRU State Championships & Representative Teams 2014
- Thread starter Hugh Jarse
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I think that the NSWJRU has 2 members - the SJRU and the CJRU (from the Garling report).
Unfortunately, boldness requires change and change means that the chieftains of petty empires must relinquish power and influence.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
To me, the selection process is also an issue.
Too many dads involved in selecting teams
Selections based on winner take all one off trials or a 2 day tournament.
IMO these rob the process of its credibility.
No-one should be a selector if they have a boy involved in the age group. By all means select, just not your son's age group.
Run a proper process.
An acquaintance of mine used to run a rep age group at Warringah. Every boy in the age group was invited to training sessions which started mid-January, 7am Sunday mornings. He ran these sessions as skills sessions so that all the boys who participated actually improved. As time progressed he ran internal trials at his Sunday morning sessions and went and watched village club games. He cut numbers down gradually and finalised his squad at the end of an exhaustive process, a process which had credibility. They won the JSC every year form 10s to 17s. (without players imported from other districts)
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
If the ARU and NSW RU were serious about junior development and "the pathway", then they would appoint independent and qualified selectors from within their own ranks. It might cost some money, but that is what you have to do.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Correct, because in many (not all) cases, the selection process is a sham. Nepotism and pre-conceived ideas reign supreme. (and I have just witnessed in the past couple of weeks one of these sham processes in all it's ugliness)
CatchnPass
Vay Wilson (31)
Even if you have (some) independent selectors, they invariably hand over to coaches who are Dads and/ or who have said pre-conceived ideas. Good luck to any boy trying to move in from the cold. It's hard work explaining to boys who have clearly performed well in trials why they are not getting a fair go in terms of 1-15 jerseys and game time, whilst the coaches' kids get it all on a plate. I suppose it's the getting of wisdom. Given the dire state of finances throughout rugby, it's not changing any time soon.
Jaghond
Ted Fahey (11)
"Zones are necessary because the reality is that there is such a wide divergence in quality between the rep teams and even the top 4 teams."
IS,
I don't disagree with your comments here.
That being said, it raises 2 queries for me:
1. If the Zones exist to assist with the grading exercize only ( which I tend to support) - is there any need / logic in them still having a "vote" at NSWJRU level ? ( Personally, I would have thought not). Who exactly are their constituents, these days ?;
2. If the need exists for grading purposes - then why not have Possibles 1 vs Possible 2 vs Possible 3 etc....Shouldn't this format work if it was possible to obtain some independent selectors to observe the State Championship matches ?
Bearing in mind of course that selectors - of whatever age group / team right up to the Wobbs - are only human - and therefore fallible !
And players sometimes have off-days too.....
Being a selector is a bugger of a job......just ask anyone who has been suckered into it !
I must admit to being a proponent of "retiring" rep rugby for U10's through to U13's (have a gala day or some such instead - where everyone who wants to be involved from Club land can be) - and only introduce "Rep Rugby" to those age groups which the ARU have identified as being the relevant pathway forward.
Any thought of assistance from NSWRU or ARU ( in a financial sense certainly, but in a manpower sense too, at this point in time) seems to me to be a bridge too far.
If change is to occur, it must eminate from within.
The Hound
IS,
I don't disagree with your comments here.
That being said, it raises 2 queries for me:
1. If the Zones exist to assist with the grading exercize only ( which I tend to support) - is there any need / logic in them still having a "vote" at NSWJRU level ? ( Personally, I would have thought not). Who exactly are their constituents, these days ?;
2. If the need exists for grading purposes - then why not have Possibles 1 vs Possible 2 vs Possible 3 etc....Shouldn't this format work if it was possible to obtain some independent selectors to observe the State Championship matches ?
Bearing in mind of course that selectors - of whatever age group / team right up to the Wobbs - are only human - and therefore fallible !
And players sometimes have off-days too.....
Being a selector is a bugger of a job......just ask anyone who has been suckered into it !
I must admit to being a proponent of "retiring" rep rugby for U10's through to U13's (have a gala day or some such instead - where everyone who wants to be involved from Club land can be) - and only introduce "Rep Rugby" to those age groups which the ARU have identified as being the relevant pathway forward.
Any thought of assistance from NSWRU or ARU ( in a financial sense certainly, but in a manpower sense too, at this point in time) seems to me to be a bridge too far.
If change is to occur, it must eminate from within.
The Hound
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Hound,
In reading the posts here from all side i am coming rapidly to the view that the reps creates as many problems as it seeks to solve and I'm not sure - when all is said and done - that it solves too many issues.
Just to entirely contradict myself I would say that a difficulty with only having reps at ages in which the ARU is interested creates an unworkable burden to then sift through kids with zero background on them.
Is there too much shame in taking a model that works - AFL, ARL or soccer, adapting it to suit rugby and using that.
In reading the posts here from all side i am coming rapidly to the view that the reps creates as many problems as it seeks to solve and I'm not sure - when all is said and done - that it solves too many issues.
Just to entirely contradict myself I would say that a difficulty with only having reps at ages in which the ARU is interested creates an unworkable burden to then sift through kids with zero background on them.
Is there too much shame in taking a model that works - AFL, ARL or soccer, adapting it to suit rugby and using that.
Jaghond
Ted Fahey (11)
I can't see why not, IS.
Other than as posted previously, some parents may then not be quite so sure of obtaining that special wind cheater !
As with most things however, change is a burdensome beast, until there is someone strong enough to tame the beast.
And I wish that person / those persons the very best of luck !
Other than as posted previously, some parents may then not be quite so sure of obtaining that special wind cheater !
As with most things however, change is a burdensome beast, until there is someone strong enough to tame the beast.
And I wish that person / those persons the very best of luck !
the baz
Alfred Walker (16)
Hj - not going to happen. ARU\NSWRU are concerned about treading on toes of those that wield influence. For the governing bodies to take control, it would mean taking the politics\favouritism\nepotism... call it what you want, away, and some selectors are there to gain advantage for their club\zone\association\kids, NOT ALL MIND YOU. I have been asked to select teams many times, and its amazing how many people (parents, coaches, club members) befriend you, until you dont make the selections that suit them ie.choose the right player, not the better player.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
But we don't need to get rid of all reps. We certainly need to dispense with 10s and 11s. 12s I can live with, then run 14s and 16s to fit in with the 15s and 17s JGC. Zone reps are superfluous and they aren't really representative of anything as zones no longer exist do they?
I do feel strongly that reps should be played at the end of the village season not during it. I'd run a selection process which involves the senior club playing a role - not the shenanigans of dads etc. It could be the first Saturday, Sunday and Monday of the September holidays for example, which gives teams time to prepare and allows country teams to travel. 14s and 16s are part of the trial process for JGC.
Selectors will always make mistakes and quite often there's not much difference between the last 3 or 5 selected and the next 4 or 5, but it's a much easier pill to swallow when one of the boys who beat you in doesn't have a parent picking the team.
Jaghond
Ted Fahey (11)
QH,
That sort of timing seems logical............( and therefore doomed to instant failure, some might say !)
One of the issues that would (probably) be confronted in many local areas, is the "changeover" back to summer sports - with many Council's often demanding 3-4 weeks for the preparation of turf cricket wickets, prior to the commemcement of the summer cricket season.
In the bad / (good ?) old days, cricket didn't start until AFTER the October long weekend. Nowadays,. they seem to be at in in early September, where they can get it...
Trying to retain certain Council controlled grounds for the proposed rep matches at that time of year (up to & including Oct l/weekend) I fear will be doomed due to Council indifference....although having 200 kids using an oval as opposed to 22 for a day, seems to be somewhat more "productive" !
(With sincere apologies to all the cricklet lovers & afficianados out there !)
The Hound
That sort of timing seems logical............( and therefore doomed to instant failure, some might say !)
One of the issues that would (probably) be confronted in many local areas, is the "changeover" back to summer sports - with many Council's often demanding 3-4 weeks for the preparation of turf cricket wickets, prior to the commemcement of the summer cricket season.
In the bad / (good ?) old days, cricket didn't start until AFTER the October long weekend. Nowadays,. they seem to be at in in early September, where they can get it...
Trying to retain certain Council controlled grounds for the proposed rep matches at that time of year (up to & including Oct l/weekend) I fear will be doomed due to Council indifference....although having 200 kids using an oval as opposed to 22 for a day, seems to be somewhat more "productive" !
(With sincere apologies to all the cricklet lovers & afficianados out there !)
The Hound
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
The resultant green tops from the late start to preparation might help cricket as well.
Its a win/win.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
I can't speak for all of Sydney, but there are some ground that don't have cricket pitches (turf or synthetic) and have a league or union configuration all year. Bantry Bay Oval, Reub Hudson ground, the front ground at Rat Park are 3 that I know of straight away which are junior grounds. Granville, TGM, Nepean RP, Rat Park main ground, Leichhardt Oval, Concord Oval, Forshaw are a few more. I suspect that there would be enough grounds in Sydney to run things - remember we're only talking about district reps so not many teams/players are involved.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
If we accept that is it only an issue for U14 anD u16 reps then it wouldn't be too hard to find two parks that have two rugby fields that do not have cricket pitches, or are not council controlled.
How about Rockdale? I've been to Under16's and U15's there before. Good sized ovals x 2. couldn't recall any cricket pitches. Probably non-council controlled because the boys played in some fairly wet conditions with parts of the oval and surrounds under water.
Can't recall too many cricket pitches at Rat Park. Plenty of ovals there, although there is some baseball action I think.
No cricket at Latham Park. Two ovals there but not too much warm up space.
No cricket at TG Milner, but that may become a construction site soon. Two ovals with plenty of space for warm ups.
Hire Riverview. They won't be using their ovals for the U16 National tournament anymore.
There are plenty of options if we are only conducting two age group carnivals.
Think how much money will be saved on purchasing "look at me, I'm someone important" branded jackets for Coaches, Managers, Assistant managers, Selectors, Tournament officials, Committee members etc.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
Ultimately you are right. Nothing much seems to comes from the centre. Many of the sponsors for Junior Rugby have a parental link to the sport, rather than being driven by commercial imperatives.
Every $ the parents have to spend on raffle tickets for rep track suits, jumpers, shorts and socks, as well as directly or indirectly subsidising the "Look at Me' attire of the various officials is a $ that is not getting churned back into the games grass roots, or on Wobs tickets or merch.
Every $ the parents have to spend on raffle tickets for rep track suits, jumpers, shorts and socks, as well as directly or indirectly subsidising the "Look at Me' attire of the various officials is a $ that is not getting churned back into the games grass roots, or on Wobs tickets or merch.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Nothing quite like adults living vicariously through children is there?
Adam Osborne
Frank Nicholson (4)
Looks like the ACT are sending U16, U14, U13 and U12s
Shane Smeltz
Fred Wood (13)
What wrong with the ACT U15s?
Got to give Norths, aka Hunters Hill, something to worry about - otherwise they might as well just turn up on the Monday in time for the finals.
And then win the final.
anonymous_
Frank Nicholson (4)
What wrong with the ACT U15s?
Got to give Norths, aka Hunters Hill, something to worry about - otherwise they might as well just turn up on the Monday in time for the finals.
And then win the final.
under 14s as well same deal
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