NSW JRU State Championships & Representative Teams 2014

[rip]

Yes.
A number of boys in U16s - essentially the younger ones in year 11 and a few year 10ers - would be in their school's opens.
Some of the TSC U16's have changed to Randwick I am told and i think there is not much coming out of SJC for U16s - maybe 1?
Garry Owen III will know all about it.

Yes Norths had 5 or 6 boys from SJC last year and all but one are now in year 11 and Joeys won,t release them for club or state champs

 

[Gary Owen III]

Yes Norths had 5 or 6 boys from SJC last year and all but one are now in year 11 and Joeys won,t release them for club or state champs

Re - SJC. I am not sure if there is a distinct policy but a fear that the schools selections may be negatively influenced if they play club / State Champs. Gordon still has one lad named in their Rep team and Mosman/HH have a couple on their sheets that you'd expect at Rep level.

 

[10to12]

Re - SJC. I am not sure if there is a distinct policy but a fear that the schools selections may be negatively influenced if they play club / State Champs. Gordon still has one lad named in their Rep team and Mosman/HH have a couple on their sheets that you'd expect at Rep level.

It will be interesting to see the final teams. I'm sure that there will be some unavailable boys when the schools finalise their teams. Add the injuries that always seem to occur at this age group and any of the top teams will be in the mix.

Sent from my GT-I9506 using Tapatalk

 

[10to12]

Am aware of the reluctance to allow opens players to play for rep sides but not 16 a's. Apart from school trials isn't there only one round of the GPS program before the state champs?

The schools are very happy to have their boys play club till 15s but flex their muscles at 16s. In the past with the 16's nationals this made some sense but with that comp folding and so many schools taking boys up to the opens from the 16s it dilutes the 16s schools comp. Also as you've said the JSC Is over before most schools get going. In effect the boys will miss out on 3 hours of play time SC, excellent coaching, and a great rugby carnival , playing with mates because the schools are pig headed. Lets not start the ghost player argument agsin its been done to death

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[Hugh Jarse]

This email is doing the rounds from NSW JRU:

Re NSWJRU State Championships

Both Wests and Easts Districts (which I might add are the 2 smallest Districts in Sydney) have requested that they would be very receptive to any “extra” players from outside their District for their Rep teams.

Easts are particularly keen for U14s age players (please contact Andy Strang Email:astrang@stxgroup.com.au)

and Wests I am sure would be happy to welcome various age group players. (Please contact Siobhan Seuili: Email: SSeiuli@tglaw.com.au )

This is a great opportunity for those boys who have missed selection to still participate.
Districts must remember that players not selected for their home District are free agents and able to trial elsewhere.

Regards, Kerry

Easts Under 14's and Wests all ages have slots available for State Championships. Ring them if your offspring are keen to try out.

How healthy is the game?

Is there too much representative stuff going on, and is the Sydney Teams model, based around Shute Shield District Teams, still appropriate?

One senses that there will be some rather large skill level mismatches between some district teams in some age groups.

On the back of the JGC and NRC, implementation of a National U20 tournament, and cancellation of the National U16's, is it time to tweak the NSW JRU development model as well?

 

[Druid]

I believe that Parramatta District will also not be fielding an Under 12s or an Under 13s team this year in the JSC. The district only has 1 team in each of these age groups, competing in the "D" grade and "C" grade SJRU competitions, so even if they did form a team it is hard to see how they would be competative against other districts with multiple "A" and "B" grade teams which is probably part of the problem.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

is it time to tweak the NSW JRU development model as well?

Gives us your blueprint HJ: if there ever was a time when NSWJRU/SJRU should be thinking laterally and we helping them I think that time is now.

 

[Quick Hands]

How healthy is the game?

Is there too much representative stuff going on, and is the Sydney Teams model, based around Shute Shield District Teams, still appropriate?

One senses that there will be some rather large skill level mismatches between some district teams in some age groups.

On the back of the JGC and NRC, implementation of a National U20 tournament, and cancellation of the National U16's, is it time to tweak the NSW JRU development model as well?

From the NSWRU annual report - NSWJRU section:

The introduction of the Junior Gold Cup by
Australian Rugby Union will see a change in role
of NSWJRU, in relation to representative fixtures.
This may necessitate changes to our representative
calendar but the challenge will be to retain some of
the traditional aspects such as the City Country Day.
There is a need to embrace new initiatives which
give benefit to all of junior rugby, not just our most
talented players.

http://www.nswrugby.com.au/Portals/3/PDFs/NSW Rugby-web.pdf

IMO, the NSWJRU championships are played at the wrong time of the year. Playing it over the June long weekend is an anachronism. Boys have barely started training for their village clubs and districts have to select rep teams for a competition in the first half of the year.

There's no particular reason for it to be played on a long weekend, in fact in some cases it just makes it a war of attrition in which the team which has the most good players fit have a huge advantage.

It should be played after the village competition finishes and it shouldn't start until 12's at the youngest.

The teams should be selected by people with no offspring trialling for the squad.

 

[Quick Hands]

T

Is there too much representative stuff going on,

YES

 

[Inside Shoulder]

From the NSWRU annual report - NSWJRU section:

The introduction of the Junior Gold Cup by
Australian Rugby Union will see a change in role
of NSWJRU, in relation to representative fixtures.
This may necessitate changes to our representative
calendar but the challenge will be to retain some of
the traditional aspects such as the City Country Day.
There is a need to embrace new initiatives which
give benefit to all of junior rugby, not just our most
talented players.

http://www.nswrugby.com.au/Portals/3/PDFs/NSW Rugby-web.pdf

IMO, the NSWJRU championships are played at the wrong time of the year. Playing it over the June long weekend is an anachronism. Boys have barely started training for their village clubs and districts have to select rep teams for a competition in the first half of the year.

There's no particular reason for it to be played on a long weekend, in fact in some cases it just makes it a war of attrition in which the team which has the most good players fit have a huge advantage.

It should be played after the village competition finishes and it shouldn't start until 12's at the youngest.

The teams should be selected by people with no offspring trialling for the squad.

Presumably it was chosen because there is no school sport that weekend.

 

[Quick Hands]

Presumably it was chosen because there is no school sport that weekend.

Quite possibly - something lost in the mists of time I suspect. It certainly predates the 4 term school year.

It's just one of those things which has "always" been on that date, so no-one questions it or thinks of change.

We could for example stat the village season 2 weeks earlier, play village rugby on the long week end and then a 3 or 4 week district rep season at the end. This maintains the 14 week village season and plays the district rep stuff in clear air at the end of the season. 14s and 16s reps acting as selection trials for 15s and 17s JGC the following year (presuming that that will continue in a Jan-Mar timeslot)

 

[Brainstrust]

Quite possibly - something lost in the mists of time I suspect. It certainly predates the 4 term school year.

It's just one of those things which has "always" been on that date, so no-one questions it or thinks of change.

We could for example stat the village season 2 weeks earlier, play village rugby on the long week end and then a 3 or 4 week district rep season at the end. This maintains the 14 week village season and plays the district rep stuff in clear air at the end of the season. 14s and 16s reps acting as selection trials for 15s and 17s JGC the following year (presuming that that will continue in a Jan-Mar timeslot)

There's no easy answer on timing because the later it gets pushed back the more difficult it is to have any meaningful zone, Sydney and state pathway, and many of the boys are then off to summer sport. At least the current timing generally allows the additional possibilities after the state champs are played during the rugby season and not competing with other sports as such.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Some of the Country lads travel considerable distances to Sydney (and Orange for U14) for the tournament. Many families also travel with the country boys.

A long weekend helps with transport arrangements for teams from out of town.

The June Long weekend is the only one in the Footy Season.

 

[Quick Hands]

Some of the Country lads travel considerable distances to Sydney (and Orange for U14) for the tournament. Many families also travel with the country boys.

A long weekend helps with transport arrangements for teams from out of town.

The June Long weekend is the only one in the Footy Season.

There is actually a long weekend in October as well

 

[Quick Hands]

There's no easy answer on timing because the later it gets pushed back the more difficult it is to have any meaningful zone, Sydney and state pathway, and many of the boys are then off to summer sport. At least the current timing generally allows the additional possibilities after the state champs are played during the rugby season and not competing with other sports as such.

Zone Teams can go. If we must have Sydney and/or state teams, surely they can be picked from a district rep tournament.

NB - Zones no longer exist do they?

 

[Jaghond]

GH

It would seem that Zones only exist as a further layer in the Rep Pathway selection process. The Zones themselves seemed to have become essentially irrelevant (following Southern & Western Zones relenting to allow their charges to participate in a Sydney wide competition incorporating rugby being played on Friday nights, Saturdays & Sundays).

IIRC - the Zones may still have a vote at NSWJRU meetings.....but that's a discussion for another day, most likely. (HJ - might be part of your considerations when looking at how to "fix" things ??).

Prima facie - the Zones exist to assist in the selection of Sydney teams to play Country - in the 15's & 17's, traditionally. Then from those contests NSW Juniors teams are selected to play Qld & ACT or whoever else they can line up.

Perhaps if rep selectors were efficient in their tasks, then the State Championships might be enough - but I fear there will always be the backlash from parents that "little jonny" wasn't given enough match time, or he had a headache...or, heaven forbid - the selectors were not independent & that the coach was biased,.... from concerned parents !

The Garling Report of a number of years ago outlined the tragic state surrounding the administration and management of junior rugby in Sydney - perhaps now is the time to implement change.....if the administrators be so bold.

( And the above is not meant as a slight on the volunteer administrators currently trying their best to satisfy everyone's concerns - they are "administering" in accordance with what you, gentle readers, have tasked them with - the current SJRU & NSWJRU constitutions, which despite attempts in the past, have failed to be amended due to the way the votes have fallen at previous AGM's)

Enjoy the rugby this weekend, wherever you find it.

The Hound

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Zones are necessary because the reality is that there is such a wide divergence in quality between the rep teams and even the top 4 teams.
You need to see how a player goes against better quality opponents: some guys are better when the play against better opponents - so the translation is not always obvious.
That's not to say anything about the necessity for rep or anything else.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

There is actually a long weekend in October as well

That is after the footy season, and many kids (with a balanced view of life) have moved on to their summer recreational activities.

That being said, a October Long Weekend State Champs could be a good lead in to the summer JGC programme, and serve as the trials for such.

This would leave the NSW JRU with the dilemma about where and when to run the Sydney vs Country games, and how the teams are chosen. ATM the JSC serve as a selection filter for those teams. Are they still relevant given the JGC games?

 

[Quick Hands]

That is after the footy season, and many kids (with a balanced view of life) have moved on to their summer recreational activities.

That being said, a October Long Weekend State Champs could be a good lead in to the summer JGC programme, and serve as the trials for such.

This would leave the NSW JRU with the dilemma about where and when to run the Sydney vs Country games, and how the teams are chosen. ATM the JSC serve as a selection filter for those teams. Are they still relevant given the JGC games?

Yes, but the kids with this balanced view on life tend not to be the ones playing rep rugby.

We need to dispense with some of these layers of rep rugby now that JGC is a reality.

Zones appear to be a poor man's JGC - one has to go.

If people need zones to pick a Sydney team, maybe we need new selectors.

I'm sceptical about the need for a lot of these rep levels - the we've always run them line can only go so far.

Radical change is needed in the way age group rugby is run in Sydney anyway, but when any change is suggested, the vested interests and traditionalists line up with reasons why it can't happen. Result - nothing happens and we keep doing the same thing - for less and less players.

 

[Quick Hands]

Zones are necessary because the reality is that there is such a wide divergence in quality between the rep teams and even the top 4 teams.
You need to see how a player goes against better quality opponents: some guys are better when the play against better opponents - so the translation is not always obvious.
That's not to say anything about the necessity for rep or anything else.

I'm not sure about zones being necessary (to the extent they even exist - haven't they gone the way of the Soviet Union?).

Even accepting the argument - doesn't the northern zone possess the same inequality of resources as the individual constituent districts?

I can't work out when and why rugby became so obsessed with representative rugby, largely to the detriment of the game at village club level.

Soccer and Aussie Rules are making big inroads into the GPS/CAS systems, our village club system has been on a steady decline for years and we are running more and more levels of representation for less and less players.

If ever there was a case of not seeing the wood for the trees, it's all this rep stuff.

Cut it back - start it older (no earlier than 12), operate in selected age groups (12, 14 & 16 are enough), use the 14 and 16 to pick your 16 Sydney team and your 15 and 17 JGC, play your JSC after everyone else has finished their village club competition (Sept holidays, Oct long weekend).