NSW JRU State Championships & Representative Teams 2014

[S'UP]

There doesn't seem to be any point playing in the JSC if you are 17, you just wait for the coaches to call you in, 5 boys called in, 5 selected. I'm sure the five boys that missed out that played 4 plus hard games at the JSC plus the possibles and probables are very pleased they played. I believe all boys have an alternate pathway through schools why do they need to be called into the pathway for club players. I hear the 17's squad was already done and dusted before the P v P which is a shame if true.

 

[Slugga]

There doesn't seem to be any point playing in the JSC if you are 17, you just wait for the coaches to call you in, 5 boys called in, 5 selected. I'm sure the five boys that missed out that played 4 plus hard games at the JSC plus the possibles and probables are very pleased they played. I believe all boys have an alternate pathway through schools why do they need to be called into the pathway for club players. I hear the 17's squad was already done and dusted before the P v P which is a shame if true.

Agree completely S’UP. One of the good things about NSWJRU is the two pathways concept which in principal allows for bolters and picks up talent otherwise missed in the schools system.


Farr-Jones and Kearns couldn’t make their 1stxv (well done Newington) with Kearns making the Wallabies two years out of school.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

(Post 607) Read the last years thread about the farce that was the Under 17 Selection and trial process in 2013, and after all of that they still parachuted a lad into the squad after it was announced. This lad did not attend the final "absolute must attend or miss out" trial because he had chosen the Schools pathway and (rightly) declined to attend the trial held on the Sunday prior to going into Schools Camp.

Expect the unexpected. Exceptions to all rules will be made if "they" really want the boy.

 

[Slugga]

(Post 607) Read the last years thread about the farce that was the Under 17 Selection and trial process in 2013, and after all of that they still parachuted a lad into the squad after it was announced. This lad did not attend the final "absolute must attend or miss out" trial because he had chosen the Schools pathway and (rightly) declined to attend the trial held on the Sunday prior to going into Schools Camp.

Expect the unexpected. Exceptions to all rules will be made if "they" really want the boy.

That's unfortunate but not particularly surprising HJ.

Little wonder so many child stars are never heard of again when they get into the big wide world.

 

[Azzuri]

Trying to understand the rationale for selecting the President's U16's team rather than just selecting a shadow squad for the SJRU squad.

At this stage selection into Presidents is not a repechage event where you get a second chance to showcase your wares in front of U16's selectors but rather the entire program starts and ends in a one game cul de sac playing NSW U15's which provides all the benefits to the U15's and nothing to the U16's.

Effectively a consolation prize without the prize.

IMO if this is to be a serious attempt at giving the boys who just missed out some form of recognition and keep them engaged and motivated to keep trying then let them have a crack at the SJRU 16's and others.

 

[Slugga]

Trying to understand the rationale for selecting the President's U16's team rather than just selecting a shadow squad for the SJRU squad.

At this stage selection into Presidents is not a repechage event where you get a second chance to showcase your wares in front of U16's selectors but rather the entire program starts and ends in a one game cul de sac playing NSW U15's which provides all the benefits to the U15's and nothing to the U16's.

Effectively a consolation prize without the prize.

IMO if this is to be a serious attempt at giving the boys who just missed out some form of recognition and keep them engaged and motivated to keep trying then let them have a crack at the SJRU 16's and others.

Sure the boys are looking fwd to the extra training and travelling for a dead rubber event like playing the 15's

 

[Tartan Blue]

I pretty much agree with this except for MSZ, they did come last and were thumped by MWZ.

Lynch, Picone and Owen (shadow Pesidents xv) were unlucky.


Osborne was my pick of the wingers in attack though I agree there is a question mark over his defence, Anese was solid all round and Wilson-Southon the replacement winger for MWZ played well when given an opportunity.

Couldn't agree with you more Slugga about your points above with the players mentioned

Just got off the phone with one of the Parents in the Sydney side
A good roll up for the side tonight
Coaches spoke well and they aren't training till the following weekend
The 2 coaches spoke about too much football over the last 4 weeks

Brings me to ask
Do we need to change the program slightly?

Hold the phone .......
as well 3 or 4 possible injuries already ...
Could this mean a call up for some of the players mentioned above?

We will have to wait and see...
Could be same as last year didn't they replace 4 or 5

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Sure the boys are looking fwd to the extra training and travelling for a dead rubber event like playing the 15's

It turns out, I think, that the Presidents XV play int the inaugural NSW Invitational:
http://juniors.rugby.com.au/Portals/1/Images/Sydney Teams Announcement.pdf

 

[Azzuri]

It turns out, I think, that the Presidents XV play int the inaugural NSW Invitational:
http://juniors.rugby.com.au/Portals/1/Images/Sydney Teams Announcement.pdf

The extent of the Presidents XV involvement in the invitational however remains one game against 15 year olds. Not sure such a game will draw much interest from the u16 selectors.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

yes I see that now.
It would be unfair to the kids having to play 16 year olds to make assessments about other 16 year olds based on how they went against 15 year olds. Even the odd standout.
Seeing them back to back on Sunday showed just how much difference in size a year can make.

 

[Azzuri]

yes I see that now.
It would be unfair to the kids having to play 16 year olds to make assessments about other 16 year olds based on how they went against 15 year olds. Even the odd standout.
Seeing them back to back on Sunday showed just how much difference in size a year can make.

I have no doubt the U15 NSW side is full of talented footballers who could handle themselves against larger opposition... To a point....however a quick scan of the names in the Presidents side indicates it also has it's very fair share of players who have played rep at NSW level, first XV or 16a's at school and u17 Junior gold cup...it's a very real mismatch no matter how skilful the U15's are. This could go pear shaped real fast if there is a season ending injury to a state player can you imagine the gnashing of parents teeth....but given the timing if the game I suppose that leaves plenty of recovery time to the start of next season.

 

[Cattledog]

It turns out, I think, that the Presidents XV play int the inaugural NSW Invitational:
http://juniors.rugby.com.au/Portals/1/Images/Sydney Teams Announcement.pdf

Being in it's first year The whole thing about this 16's invitational seems to be evolving weekly. If ACTJRU come in then you get 3 pretty good games for each team over the October Long Weekend.

However, without them perhaps the President's XV (President's plural) should have been beefed up with players from all three associations (combined States style) and made the legitimate 4th wheel to the weekend.

There's certainly a few lads from 16's CHS (15 & 5) & CCC (Grasby, Sailor, Abdullah) along with a couple of others from the schools & Country trials who could be added to the Pres XV to really give the others a run for their money and a good hit out.

The first year is always the most confusing in building a tournament. However, as a vehicle for the three associations the above is becoming clearer in regards to how this weekend may look in years to come.

It's back to the future (really) as many, many years ago I played in a three way selection trial with Country, SJRU, & ACT in the U17 to pick a team to play the incoming NZ U17 team and the ARU U16's were always a selection trial for the Australian U16's. Once 2014 has been run & won we will know more about what future years may look like and be able to grow towards.

However, Chuck in a touring NZ & PI team (on the October Long weekend) and your up to 6 teams & the making of a quality weekend.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The whole age thing is a little moot in some respects. With an arbitrary cut off of 1 January (it has to be some date), some kids will be disadvantaged and others not.

Consider the extreme case of a set of twins born within 10 minutes of each other, but born just before and just after midnight on 31 December 200x. In rugby terms (and many other sports) they would be considered to be eligible for different age groups. First born would be playing kids that were up to 364 days older than them, and Second born would always be older than the rest of their age group by nearly a year in some cases.

The kids born in the last 3 months of the year are at a relative disadvantage to those born in the first 3 months. This is a truism in all instances where there is a cut off date to determine age groups. That is the way it is and there is no real alternative.

In terms of U15 parents whinging about their little lad being hurt by a U16 Presidents XV boy, consider than many of the "better" boys in U15's have been playing an age group up for most of their "career", and will continue to do so. This is recognised by the ARU with the two year window policy.

I think you will find that there have been occasions where U15 boys (not many) have played 1st XV for their school (Under 18 rugby). A recent example was a backline player off the bench for SGS 1st XV. There are plenty of 17 yo (and occasional 16 yo) playing colts rugby (Under 20), primarily because there is no viable option for them within the SJRU model, and their school does not have a rugby team.

 

[sidelineview]

The concept of having U16s tournaments is a really good idea. However, I think this will evolve and change in the future.
- Is October the most appropriate time to play a rugby tournament when the other State Rep games are being held in July? and the summer sporting teams have already started to train?
- Seeing as the SJRU (with 4 Rep teams to choose from) chose a 16s Presidents XV, could the schools choose another team given they have players from 8 Rep teams to choose from?
- Is it appropriate to play an U15s team against an U16s team given the risk of mismatch/injuries in what seems to be a token match only? or would it be better to match the U16s team up against another U16s team?

 

[sidelineview]

The whole age thing is a little moot in some respects. With an arbitrary cut off of 1 January (it has to be some date), some kids will be disadvantaged and others not.



In terms of U15 parents whinging about their little lad being hurt by a U16 Presidents XV boy, consider than many of the "better" boys in U15's have been playing an age group up for most of their "career", and will continue to do so. This is recognised by the ARU with the two year window policy.

I think you will find that there have been occasions where U15 boys (not many) have played 1st XV for their school (Under 18 rugby). A recent example was a backline player off the bench for SGS 1st XV. There are plenty of 17 yo (and occasional 16 yo) playing colts rugby (Under 20), primarily because there is no viable option for them within the SJRU model, and their school does not have a rugby team.

It's true that some 15 year olds (young U16s players) play 1st XV; they wouldn't be in the 1sts if they couldn't handle it or were not good enough.
But it's a different matter to match whole teams of U15s up against U16s teams. I don't think it's a sensible idea and parents would have every right to complain if their little Johnny was injured or if the team was demoralised in defeat.
At this age 1 year can make a huge difference with their physical and skills development.
There may be arguments for it, but I think it's better left alone.

 

[Azzuri]

Putting the not insignificant issue of playing the younger age group aside for a moment....it was nice form of recognition for the lads who almost made it to be picked for the Presidents XV. The elephant in the room however is that their Rep season ended when they were selected for that squad on Monday (pending the unlikely call up to the SJRU in the event of an injury). Playing the U15's is a road to nowhere with no prize at the end of a very long season if you include those that played in the JGC.

 

[Fat Cat]

If the playing for Sydney, the possibility of playing NSW 15's, an elite training camp with the waratahs, and being recognised, "is a road to nowhere, and with no prize at the end of the season" I would hate to have to buy you a Chrissy pressie you would just winge ! do you think they should get a Wallaby jersey ?

 

[Azzuri]

If the playing for Sydney, the possibility of playing NSW 15's, an elite training camp with the waratahs, and being recognised, "is a road to nowhere, and with no prize at the end of the season" I would hate to have to buy you a Chrissy pressie you would just winge ! do you think they should get a Wallaby jersey ?

I'd suggest you ask the Presidents lads if they think playing a game against U15's in a NSW U16's Invitational tournament is going to help their aspirations in rep Rugby.... I'll be interested to hear if you get an answer that is longer than two words!...Merry Christmas!

 

[footyhead101]

I'd suggest you ask the Presidents lads if they think playing a game against U15's in a NSW U16's Invitational tournament is going to help their aspirations in rep Rugby.. I'll be interested to hear if you get an answer that is longer than two words!.Merry Christmas!

mate you could not of said it any better..

 

[tavytoo]

mate you could not of said it any better..

this fixture for the 16s in the presidents XV is like a "re gifted" present that no one really wants but is gracious enough to accept and make the best of so heads up and move on to greater things at opens