NSW CAS Rugby 2021

[WLF]

WLF, I've got View edging Joeys in the GPS on the final day. In a game for the premiership, which has starved for View for 10 years, this group seems to have what it takes, especially if O'Donnell is back fit and firing by then (I have heard around the grounds that he is aiming for a return in Rd 3 vs Scots).

In the CAS, I've got Barker edging it as well, although could very well be a joint premiership. Knox away on the last game will be a very difficult game for Barker and Knox are massive underdogs to take out this season, led by Morrison who has been superb so far, they are definitely an outside chance to win it all. I really like Katoa and Slack-Smith from Barker, and I think they'll just be too good for Waves to handle. If the game was at Death Valley over in their eastern suburbs, my decision would most definitely change, but at the moment I'm sticking with Barker to win it all.

As for the best schoolboy team in NSW, I still believe the GPS premiers should face the CAS premiers in an end of season game. The trials showed that View could take down Barker while missing some of their key players, yet also fell to defeat against Knox in a game where they didn't reach their real potential. Riverview/Joeys/Scots vs Waves/Barker/Knox at the end of this year would make for one great game and while we all know that this game won't happen, what a wonder it would be to watch. Anyways, as a result of Riverview's win over Barker while missing a few key players, I've got them as my best NSW Schoolboy Team of 2020 if they manage to bring the shield back into their blue and white.

Rickin...,

Yep respect your view that's what this forum is all about, there would be nothing to say if we all agreed.

I beg to slightly differ, I think View will win the GPS and I believe Waves will win the CAS.

I can't tell you how many times over the decades people in both camps have wanted to see the winners of both associations play off. The crowd would be huge, all proceeds from BBQs etc could go to the childrens hospital,(as an example of what could be achieved), and it would nearly always be a much awaited face off.

P.S. I am sure you have View as the best team in NSW team, but as yet there is only 1 team that has not been beaten, nor nearly, and it's not View.

 

[Rich_E]

Ok, so IMO some absolutely TERRIFIC news today re school Competition Rugby.

BUT please take this the right way!

Clearly the Covid situation is extremely bad for lots of people and businesses, and I am sure everyone feels the same, and we all wish things were different.

Whilst this pales into insignificance in comparison to this much bigger issue, the 2 NSW Gen Blue teams will apparently not be travelling to or playing their equivalent QLD teams, which in itself is not a good thing, but given the absolutely ridiculous timing of these events, ie during the schools own comps, there should hopefully be no more injuries leading into the final games of the school competitions.

Not sure if the other NSW rep teams will play each other, and not sure what purpose that would serve, other than to just have another game of footy, but hopefully when the current Covid situation subsides, shortly, we can resume normal practice and start focusing back on the school games.

It is clear that a number of key match ups will take place soon.
Sorry for not mentioning all games and schools, and as we all know there can be upsets, but based on the season so far, here are my key games, please feel free to add to this list.

GPS.

Notably : Kings v Joeys July 17
Scots V View July 24
View V Kings July 31
Joeys V Scots July 31

IMO the Big One will be Joeys V View August 7 (all things being equal as per history the crowd will be enormous at Joeys)

CAS : Barker v Waverley July 17
Knox v Barker July 31.

So here comes my very biased CAS opinion, happy to concede that, the Barker V Waves game at Barker, will decide the best schoolboy team in NSW, based on results this year. Having said that, Knox are a definite chance of beating Barker at Knox in the last round.

Forget the Rep games, school teams are clearly different, and I think are often better than rep teams for lots of reasons.

So, over to the forum, pick this to pieces BUT please nominate your winning GPS and CAS team and why.
Schoolboys if you feel the need to comment, by all means, BUT please be logical and not stupid, if that's possible!

Not long to go now, so let's all make the most of it.

.
Hey WLF.

I think you are right - best teams View and Joeys (in GPS) and Waves and Barker (in CAS), as has been the case for a few years now.

Extrapolating 'best team in NSW', which unfortunately can only be done based on results of other games, is a little more challenging.

This is because, while Waves are undefeated, they haven't played any of the top 3 GPS sides - View, Joeys and Scots.

Barker have, though, and won one just (Joeys) and lost one just (View).

Also, GPS (with 11 players from View and Joeys) beat CAS (with 10 players from Waves and Barker).

All the above results suggest the 'best team in NSW' should be winner of V v J.

That's not to say Waves wouldn't beat View, although if both sides were at full strength I really think the home team would probably win.

.

 

[WLF]

.
Hey WLF.

I think you are right - best teams View and Joeys (in GPS) and Waves and Barker (in CAS), as has been the case for a few years now.

Extrapolating 'best team in NSW', which unfortunately can only be done based on results of other games, is a little more challenging.

This is because, while Waves are undefeated, they haven't played any of the top 3 GPS sides - View, Joeys and Scots.

Barker have, though, and won one just (Joeys) and lost one just (View).

Also, GPS (with 11 players from View and Joeys) beat CAS (with 10 players from Waves and Barker).

All the above results suggest the 'best team in NSW' should be winner of V v J.

That's not to say Waves wouldn't beat View, although if both sides were at full strength I really think the home team would probably win.

.

Hi Rich, long time, trust you are well.

Knowing that you luv your stats, here's another way to look at this.
If we agree that we can only look at the results so far, which I think is correct, then a trend is emerging.

It does appear that the 3 GPS sides you mentioned are the top sides, but that in itself, doesn't mean much, the stats do.
Let's have a look at the patterns so far.

Scots 21 Kings 15
View 12 Kings 10
Knox just beat View
View just beat Barker
Barker just beat Joeys
Joeys just beat Knox
View beat Scots by 15+
Barker 54 Cranbrook 42

There's 8 games where the winning teams were very mixed and suggests not much between all teams.

On the other hand :

Waves 53 Kings 22
Waves 38 Knox 14
Waves 39 Cranbrook 17

So here's 3 games against 3 different teams in the top 8 games, and the winning margins are much bigger.
If Waves also happened to beat Barker, at Barker, by a comfortable margin ( probably a long stretch), then I would think that would certainly make it as clear as it can be.

The Rep games are different, and I said up front the CAS selectors got it wrong, which showed up, but even so rep games are a very different proposition.

I do think that a game v View and Joeys would be terrific, and this was to be the case in the early development of the game planning way back, but it changed for various reasons, Waves were due to play both, like we have for ages, shame.

Truth is we will never know, thus the view widely held for decades that a GPS winner v CAS winner play off would be enormous annually.

 

[Snort]

Does the Waratah Shield still exist? It was a great concept for deciding the best school team in NSW. Unfortunately, the GPS/CAS schools prioritised their own competitions, so it never really worked. But the idea was sound.

 

[formerflanker]

Does the Waratah Shield still exist? It was a great concept for deciding the best school team in NSW. Unfortunately, the GPS/CAS schools prioritised their own competitions, so it never really worked. But the idea was sound.

I believe it worked very well in the 60s and 70s when a lot of CHS schools had enthusiastic rugby coaches on staff.
The Shield died in popularity as rugby in state schools declined.

 

[Ace Ventura]

the biggest problem with the Waratah Shield was the lack of interest from the bigger private schools who focussed on their GPS, CAS, ISA etc comps.

In its nearly 60 year history, only 18 schools have won it and half of them only one each. It came to be dominated by St Eddies in Canberra in the 20 years from 1984 until they were kicked out after they won it for the 14th time in 2004. St Eddies were convinced they were being punished for being too good (which for the Waratah Shield, they were) and in 2005, looking for games, challenged Joeys. They were very confident, some parents reportedly offering Joeys a 25-point start, such was their view of the strength of the Waratah Shield competition.

The rest is history - Joeys smashed them 46-0.

 

[Harv]

I believe it worked very well in the 60s and 70s when a lot of CHS schools had enthusiastic rugby coaches on staff.
The Shield died in popularity as rugby in state schools declined.

It's an important factor in the decline in the appeal and quality of youth rugby. Hybrid club/CHS School/private school comps would help haul the game back to relevance among the wider sports public, but it will never happen because of the dominance of private schools in NSW and Qld rugby. In NSW, a Waratah Shield-like comp involving reps sides from the bush, leading sports high schools and the private school powerhouses could precede the CAS, GPS, and ISA seasons rather than the pointless trials between private school sides, but there isn't the will to spread the game (which is fundamentally why we have experienced a collapse in the quality and popularity of Australian rugby at the senior level too).

 

[Snort]

It's an important factor in the decline in the appeal and quality of youth rugby. Hybrid club/CHS School/private school comps would help haul the game back to relevance among the wider sports public, but it will never happen because of the dominance of private schools in NSW and Qld rugby. In NSW, a Waratah Shield-like comp involving reps sides from the bush, leading sports high schools and the private school powerhouses could precede the CAS, GPS, and ISA seasons rather than the pointless trials between private school sides, but there isn't the will to spread the game (which is fundamentally why we have experienced a collapse in the quality and popularity of Australian rugby at the senior level too).

Yes. People who have been on this forum for a while know my views on this, but the inflexibility of the GPS/CAS/ISA split holds Rugby back. It's way past time for someone with a bit of vision and courage to do something about it.

 

[Snort]

And, look, I love CAS Rugby. Have for years. But here are the last five winners of the competition: Waverley (unbeaten), Waverley (unbeaten), Barker (unbeaten), Barker (unbeaten) and Waverley (unbeaten). This year it will be Waverley (unbeaten) or Barker (unbeaten). In other words, if you're in Year 12 this year, throughout your time in high school, the competition will have been won by whoever won the game between Barker and Waverley.

That's fine if you're at Barker or Waverley. What it isn't, is a healthy competition.

 

[WLF]

Here's a thought starter,

Should this Covid situation spill over to effect the CAS, GPS, and ISA, comps I certainly hope, and fully expect, that those in charge will find a way to ensure the comps get finished, albeit even if it takes a week or 2 longer than currently planned. Would certainly hope so.

Could even culminate in the ultimate finishes for a very long time, in several comps, depending on which games get re-scheduled eg if July 17 needs to be re-scheduled.

 

[Bob_Jones]

Yes. People who have been on this forum for a while know my views on this, but the inflexibility of the GPS/CAS/ISA split holds Rugby back. It's way past time for someone with a bit of vision and courage to do something about it.

Snort - by my uneducated read on things, it would seem that the GPS comp doesn't have the same range of mismatches (at least at the 1st XV level) and it seems that GPS schools are the most reluctant to merge. Perhaps CAS and ISA need to look at a merged rugby comp? I know it would be going against the trend of merged GPS - CAS comps (eg. waterpolo and AFL), but something needs to change.

 

[RuckInfringement]

Snort - by my uneducated read on things, it would seem that the GPS comp doesn't have the same range of mismatches (at least at the 1st XV level) and it seems that GPS schools are the most reluctant to merge. Perhaps CAS and ISA need to look at a merged rugby comp? I know it would be going against the trend of merged GPS - CAS comps (eg. waterpolo and AFL), but something needs to change.

I agree to some extent ap1. I'm a GPS old boy and have no doubt that the GPS are the most reluctant to change, as an old boy wandering down to watch the boys take on the schools which I used to face brings back great memories. So, for me, I'd like to see the GPS and CAS comps remain but with additional matches. The fact is in the GPS and CAS, boys spend more time playing trial games than real comp games and that needs to change. I don't like the idea of splitting up the competitions to an A and B level from the beginning of the year, but something like having less trial games and having the top 3 teams from each comp form a new comp after their own seasons sounds good or even, at minimum, a premiership game between the two premiers has to happen in my opinion. That way, the teams in the top comp will occasionally change (except for Joeys who will always be a force), we keep the traditional competitions in place and also improve the level of Rugby in the country.

 

[Snort]

Snort - by my uneducated read on things, it would seem that the GPS comp doesn't have the same range of mismatches (at least at the 1st XV level) and it seems that GPS schools are the most reluctant to merge. Perhaps CAS and ISA need to look at a merged rugby comp? I know it would be going against the trend of merged GPS - CAS comps (eg. waterpolo and AFL), but something needs to change.

Not sure I agree with the point about GPS mismatches. Bear in mind that three GPS schools (High, Grammar, TAS) play their 1st XVs in the 3rd XV competition - mismatches don't come worse than that. Last year Shore's 1st XV lost all five games and conceded more than 50 points a game on average. Newington only beat Shore, and conceded 43 points a game on average. That looks like a whole heap of mismatches to me.

 

[Snort]

Ok, still can't find anywhere the scorers in the 2020 Barker v St Aloysius match. Anyone able to help?

 

[Grimey]

Ok, still can't find anywhere the scorers in the 2020 Barker v St Aloysius match. Anyone able to help?

Ok, still can't find anywhere the scorers in the 2020 Barker v St Aloysius match. Anyone able to help?

It was a cricket score

 

[Eyes and Ears]

Is this what you are looking for?

95-7

 

[Snort]

Is this what you are looking for?

95-7

Thanks, but what I need is names - eg, try scorers, goal kickers.

 

[Bluebag]

the biggest problem with the Waratah Shield was the lack of interest from the bigger private schools who focussed on their GPS, CAS, ISA etc comps.

In its nearly 60 year history, only 18 schools have won it and half of them only one each. It came to be dominated by St Eddies in Canberra in the 20 years from 1984 until they were kicked out after they won it for the 14th time in 2004. St Eddies were convinced they were being punished for being too good (which for the Waratah Shield, they were) and in 2005, looking for games, challenged Joeys. They were very confident, some parents reportedly offering Joeys a 25-point start, such was their view of the strength of the Waratah Shield competition.

The rest is history - Joeys smashed them 46-0.

Well that settles the argument. Well, maybe if the 2004 Eddies team got beat 46-0. 2005 was a different team and even Eddies have been known to have weaker years. No saying they would have won the Waratah in 2005 as they weren't offered the chance. Nor were any Canberra schools since then.

If you want to go further back in history Marist Canberra beat Joeys 21-0 in 88' and went on to win the Waratah shield for the first time. That same year Joeys went undefeated in the AAGPS comp. Puts a different perspective on things don't you think?

 

[Rick Dalton]

Have noticed 16s Gen Blue & Schoolboys squads are still yet to be released.

Anyone informed as to how the recent upsurge of COVID will affect team announcement and their inter/intra state fixtures.

BR

 

[Love2Scrum]

Have noticed 16s Gen Blue & Schoolboys squads are still yet to be released.

Anyone informed as to how the recent upsurge of COVID will affect team announcement and their inter/intra state fixtures.

BR

It is understandable with cancellation of the U16 NSW Invitational tournament and the U18 NSW Schools / Sydney Juniors & Barbarian games this weekend.

I’m led to believe an announcement will be made this week to explain the new U16 NSW Pathway for Gen Blue and Nationals currently scheduled for September School holidays.