NSW AAGPS Rugby 2011

[Tireless Backrower]

Both I believe. There was little difference between him and contenders. Expect better in 2012

Doesnt seem fair to his equals - its not a development squad

 

[Tireless Backrower]

My opinion is that it is a responsibility to put the best team forward. This year SJC were low in talent from year 12 as they were a smaller year group. While the team could have been seen as experimental or developmental, the fact remains they were the best team SJC had this season. There were no players I am aware of in lower grades expressing disbelief they were not picked or considered.

I think we're at cross purposes - i was interested in the Scots 5/8s selection for OzSchoolboys

 

[CTPE]

Why not revamp the comp. completely and bring in Knox, Barker, Cranbrook, Trinity, Waverley, etc. Even then have a 2 tier comp in which Grammar and High compete. That would then show who did have the best team!

What's quite interesting is that there is actually a GPS/CAS Water Polo comp played during the summer and it's been operating for quite a number of years. Whilst Water Polo may not have the history or traditions of rugby at both GPS and CAS schools, the fact that a combined comp exists is noteworthy in terms of the two Associations coming together in an area of sporting endeavour.

 

[Man on the hill]

What's quite interesting is that there is actually a GPS/CAS Water Polo comp played during the summer and it's been operating for quite a number of years. Whilst Water Polo may not have the history or traditions of rugby at both GPS and CAS schools, the fact that a combined comp exists is noteworthy in terms of the two Associations coming together in an area of sporting endeavour.

feel behind you - when you can't find a hole in your bum - the competitions will merge for Rugby!

 

[Old Offside No7]

In that case its not as if he was there during any sort of stellar period (in rugby or rowing) - sounds like he was in the 1st XV during the 12 years when they did not win a game.

I think you totally missed the point of what i was getting at Tireless (and it would appear others contributions as well) ...You sure your not really a frontrower??

At lest we have some heathy discussion from others here.

 

[Spewn]

I'm afraid the 15s won't be plugging any holes. One or two players cannot make a team competitive. Unless they were huge islander classicists. And there is nothing coming afterwards. Edgecliff and St Ives prep are struggling to field teams. With Grammar and High effectively gone in the medium term, another competition or structure should be looked at.

 

[unclechester]

Whos got any idea of the last time Joeys won 2 comp games in a season?

 

[CTPE]

Whos got any idea of the last time Joeys won 2 comp games in a season?

This is their 3rd year in decline as they won only 3 games in each of 2009 and 2010. That's a total of 8 wins from 18 games (byes against SHS) in 2009-2011 or a 44% win ratio.

 

[topo]

Whos got any idea of the last time Joeys won 2 comp games in a season?

'79 was pretty ugly. Only one 1 or 2.

 

[SmarterChild12]

That may be correct but this past season Joeys still had 18 teams (out of 40) go though undefeated and another 13 who lost one game. It was down from 22 last year. Name another school that matches this.

Not to attack here, but the don't remember who won the 14C's, the 1st and 2nd XV count Sarge, doesn't matter how much you try to put forward the case of winning 18 out of 40 teams, no one remembers or knows about them.

 

[baldingwingforward]

That may be correct but this past season Joeys still had 18 teams (out of 40) go though undefeated and another 13 who lost one game. It was down from 22 last year. Name another school that matches this.

As Smartchild said... Who cares. The 1st and 2nd XV competitions are the only ones that there is a trophy for!

In regard to another school that matches their standards in regard to win lose, you could counter that by saying name another school that puts as much emphasis on training especially in the junior years. Joeys has 3 field training sessions per week minimum from 13s upwards... I know of school 1st XV sides who until recently did less than that!

Joeys are also guilty of plenty of unsavoury practices in their lower teams - putting on As players in other lower grades etc just so they can win, and before anyone fires up and says rubbish i have seen it happen too many times with my own eyes.

Doesn't matter how you sugar coat it - Joeys are on the slide at the top end and it may be a while before they win another 1st XV premiership.

 

[International Badboy]

As Smartchild said... Who cares. The 1st and 2nd XV competitions are the only ones that there is a trophy for!

In regard to another school that matches their standards in regard to win lose, you could counter that by saying name another school that puts as much emphasis on training especially in the junior years. Joeys has 3 field training sessions per week minimum from 13s upwards... I know of school 1st XV sides who until recently did less than that!

Joeys are also guilty of plenty of unsavoury practices in their lower teams - putting on As players in other lower grades etc just so they can win, and before anyone fires up and says rubbish i have seen it happen too many times with my own eyes.

Doesn't matter how you sugar coat it - Joeys are on the slide at the top end and it may be a while before they win another 1st XV premiership.

If this is true it is a sad day for Joeys Rugby

 

[random2]

As Smartchild said... Who cares. The 1st and 2nd XV competitions are the only ones that there is a trophy for!

In regard to another school that matches their standards in regard to win lose, you could counter that by saying name another school that puts as much emphasis on training especially in the junior years. Joeys has 3 field training sessions per week minimum from 13s upwards... I know of school 1st XV sides who until recently did less than that!

Joeys are also guilty of plenty of unsavoury practices in their lower teams - putting on As players in other lower grades etc just so they can win, and before anyone fires up and says rubbish i have seen it happen too many times with my own eyes.

Doesn't matter how you sugar coat it - Joeys are on the slide at the top end and it may be a while before they win another 1st XV premiership.

First of all most A and B teams train around 4-7 times a week, with weights and fitness half of those sessions while most other teams train 3 times a week with only 2 field sessions.
With stacking, i havent seen an A grade player play in any lower grade game at all this year, the only time that happens if say a C or D player plays for the Fs and this would only happens if the team they are playing do it first. Even if this does happen the boy wouldnt get away with it
Finally, i think that Joeys have very, very strong chances at winning the comp in the next 4-5 years although things will have to change if we are to return to being the australian rugby powerhouse we once were

 

[Snort]

I have no affiliation with Joeys, but too much of this recent thread looks uncomfortably like gloating. Whatever you think of its methods (and training more than anyone else strikes me as a positive quality, not one to be deplored), Joeys has had a hugely successful rugby history and a rather poor 2011. It should be possible to comment on those facts without being unduly celebratory or defensive. It would be interesting to see some thoughtful analysis on whether this is a cyclical blip, or something more than that. And are the answers to those questions to be gleaned just from looking at Joeys, or have the other schools caught up. The book Moneyball tells the story of how the Oakland Athletics used smart methods to keep pace with far richer baseball franchises: but paradoxically, by doing so, it made those methods available to every other team as well, so they no longer give Oakland an edge. Has something like that happened here? Have other schools looked at Joeys' methods and taken them on board?

 

[baldingwingforward]

This is my take on it:

A number of things have happened that have had an impact on Joeys Rugby and as a result, they are not as dominant now, and possibly won't ever return to their dominance of old.

Firstly - the competition being made strictly U18 has had a big impact on a number of schools, but especially Joeys. In days gone by (and i'm talking 80s and 90s) it was common for boys to repeat Yr 12 so they could play another year of 1st XV and get another shot at GPS glory. This meant that there used to be a number of 'older' players playing 1st XV rugby. This can no longer happen and it has had an impact.

Secondly - the Joeys demographic has changed significantly in the last few years (as it has at other schools) and with the move away from 100% boarding they no longer have the cream of the kids that they used to. Their numbers are smaller than some of the other schools and this is having an impact, and i think will become even more influential in the next few years.

Thirdly - other schools, in an attempt to match the success of Joeys, have put much more emphasis on their rugby programmes. Opposition players are now better coached and very well prepared in terms of the strength and conditioning that they get put through. Joeys used to lead the way here, with a huge gym culture, particularly amongst the boarders - perhaps not anymore? Kings, New and Scots all have dedicated Directors of Rugby who do very little/no teaching, and get big $s - they are solely there to improve the standard of the rugby programme and the 1st XV.

Fourthly - several schools (Kings, Newington and Scots) have become very aggressive in their quest for GPS Rugby premierships. Despite there being clear GPS byelaws relating to @cholarships they blatantly ignore them. This results in their 1st XV teams being MUCH better than they would normally/used to be, and therefore much harder to beat - therefore Joeys doesn't win like they used to.

Lastly and perhaps most controversially, but could it be time for some new coaching blood at Joeys? How long has Brth Boyd been at the helm? An excellent coach who has had unrivalled success, but is he up to date with the current trends and tactics?

 

[unclechester]

'79 was pretty ugly. Only one 1 or 2.

And then just two years on Joeys saw their unforgettable '81 Centenary team. Joeys will be hoping for another season along those lines coming up.
Personally i don't see all the fuss in saying Joeys are past it. Its only been 3 years.

 

[dermo]

Lastly and perhaps most controversially, but could it be time for some new coaching blood at Joeys? How long has Brth Boyd been at the helm? An excellent coach who has had unrivalled success, but is he up to date with the current trends and tactics?

Wouldnt be a Joeys XV team without a brother as coach

 

[northman91]

I'm afraid the 15s won't be plugging any holes. One or two players cannot make a team competitive. Unless they were huge islander classicists. And there is nothing coming afterwards. Edgecliff and St Ives prep are struggling to field teams. With Grammar and High effectively gone in the medium term, another competition or structure should be looked at.

It's a shame that Grammar has sunk to this new low. I know that over the past 15 years they have really struggled but they have notched up some great wins (shore in 08 and kings in 05 i believe). Hopefully within a couple of years they can return to the competition along with SHS. But in hindsight they will never be in a position to win a premiership unless both schools stop being selective and allow people of all academic levels to come to the school. I dont see the current school faculty doing anything about this anytime soon. Where it needs to come from is through the old boys. They're the ones that write the cheques for donations so they should be the ones that should voice their opinions in where the schools sporting programs are heading.

In regards to the competition next year: i doubt the GPS will ever combine with the CAS. There is too much history involved and most of the boys will agree that the competition is fine as it is. Most schools treated the Grammar game as a BYE anyway so having this game off I dont think will be to big of a problem. Some people may suggest a 2-round comp? I doubt this will work as 14 competition games for the soccer boys may be too much.

Lets hope Grammar can return to being a competitive team and knock over schools like Shore and Kings in the future. They managed to win the HOTR this year so there is some athletes throughout the school.

At least next year there will be 6 teams that are capable of beating anyone of their day.

 

[Rugby from the backrow]

Nobody takes Grammar or High seriously in the Rugby any more. Do you really think a 5 game competition is working?

 

[Joe Mac]

I cant understand why they wont make a combined GPS & CAS comp with two tiers. The bottom two are relegated and the top two from the 2nd tier are promoted. It would make for a much more exciting competition and a lot closer games for schools like Grammer, High, Cranebrook etc