NSW AAGPS 2023

[The Ghost of Raelene]

They never would have got the chance without the new systems. 20 years ago if you didn’t make a GPS team you might play 10 games of Rugby a year. They get far more opportunities now and more games create better players in the long run.

 

[KOB1987]

Can you guess where this match is being played?

1971

View attachment 16746

Definitely JS White at Kings

 

[KOB1987]

They never would have got the chance without the new systems. 20 years ago if you didn’t make a GPS team you might play 10 games of Rugby a year. They get far more opportunities now and more games create better players in the long run.

Yep there was GPS 1, 2 & 3, NSW Schools and a shadow side, and Australian Schoolboys. That was it. From memory U18s not at school were still eligible for the rep sides but had to have done the school certificate (year 10).

In my year we went a long way in the Waratah Shield which were mostly played midweek during the season, I think we played 4 pre season games, the 7 GPS rounds, and I think 6 WS games. So including the one lot of holidays that would have been 17 games over 13 weeks.

 

[Balmain Subbies]

What used to be the Australian Schoolboys has been replaced by the "Australian Schools and Under 18s" which is announced at the end of the academy matches and plays the internationals. It is the top junior squad in the country and picks up U18s that are at Uni or aren't at school. This aligns with what other countries do.

The squad announced at the end of the current carnival are confusingly called the "Australian Schoolboys" and "Australian Barbarians" but yes, is really the 5th or 6th best under 18s teams in the country.

The NSW Gen Blue squad members aren't available for selection. You wonder if some of the reserves for Gen Blue Whites would rather 30 minutes playing against the Rebels B squad or pulling on an Australian Schoolboys jersey.

Let's not forget all the gents on NRL contracts who don't play in the union rep sides but the league ones

 

[moa999]

Less concerned about that. If they are already lost to RU (at least for a few years), better give the Rep Honours to another kid.

But as mentioned above I feel sorry for the kid who's say judged the 3rd best scrum-half and selected for NSW Tahs White as a reserve and gets 10min game time versus Qld Grey,
Whereas the 4th best scrum-half made NSW Schoolboys I, played a couple of 70min games and quite probably gets named in the Aus Schoolboys side.
(Talking generically here, not about any individual, substitute the position for any other ten)

 

[dusk]

Less concerned about that. If they are already lost to RU (at least for a few years), better give the Rep Honours to another kid.

But as mentioned above I feel sorry for the kid who's say judged the 3rd best scrum-half and selected for NSW Tahs White as a reserve and gets 10min game time versus Qld Grey,
Whereas the 4th best scrum-half made NSW Schoolboys I, played a couple of 70min games and quite probably gets named in the Aus Schoolboys side.
(Talking genetically here, not about any individual, substitute the position for any other ten)

But Gen Blue is a higher form than NSW Schoolboys. Your point makes no sense. Why would they not pick the gen blue 1st scrumhalf for Aus schoolboys?

 

[Eyes and Ears]

Can anyone here explain what happened to Grammar rugby? Is it just the fact that they don't have boarding or something else within the school that means they can't compete consistently, they've been good to watch this year but I wonder what happened since they used to play in the firsts comp.

I won't claim to know all of the history but Grammar became more of an academic school under Headmaster Mackerras in the 70s and 80s. Their rugby program continued on but they lost more games than they won through the 80s and 90s. With the advent of professional rugby in the mid 90s, rugby scholarships programs became more prevalent in other schools particularly as those schools wanted to compete with the dominance of Joeys. Grammar had neither the right demographic of boys to compete nor the desire to offer sporting scholarships. Eventually boys with genuine rugby talent also started leaving the school to further their rugby careers eg Julian Huxley and Harry Jones (Rats winger who played GPS 1sts and CAS 1sts). Eventually it became a safety issue as thrashings and injuries left Grammar with no choice but to withdraw from the 1st XV.
Grammar has a small but enthusiastic program today. I believe that they are very happy with the arrangement of playing in the 3rd XV as they win as much as they lose and rarely win or lose by a large margin. My understanding is that there is no desire to return to the 1st XV competition - I'm not sure how they could even get there if they wanted to. Arguably they are little stronger than this 3rd XV competition and I think they have won the Premiership about 3 times in the last decade. They look like they will play off against Scots (and maybe Kings) for the 3rd XV Premiership this season in Term 3.
However it is not a deep program at the school with only 8 teams this year (3 in the Opens, 2 in the 14s and only one in every other year). I believe the current Year 11 cohort have been one of the strongest age groups over their years in the high school. The current 13s and 14s are reasonably strong and they often have comortable wins against lower graded teams which means that the boys don't often get the sort of challenging experiences that will make them better players. I highlight this as one of the challenges for a program with so few teams is where do they fit in.

 

[moa999]

Why would they not pick the gen blue 1st scrumhalf for Aus schoolboys?

Per the post on the prior pages that player is eligible for the "Australian Schools and Under 18s" or Wallabies U18.

Aus Schoolboys is only selected from the schoolboys tournament which excludes approx 40 NSW schoolboys (of the roughly 45 U18 players picked for NSW Tahs and Tahs White and Reaerve Squads)

 

[dusk]

Per the post on the prior pages that player is eligible for the "Australian Schools and Under 18s" or Wallabies U18.

Aus Schoolboys is only selected from the schoolboys tournament which excludes approx 40 NSW schoolboys (of the roughly 45 U18 players picked for NSW Tahs and Tahs White and Reaerve Squads)

Is this for this year only? Last year multiple gen blue boys got selected for the Aus Schoolboys team.

 

[Love2Scrum]

Is this for this year only? Last year multiple gen blue boys got selected for the Aus Schoolboys team.

From last year, how many Gen Blue boys made the Australian School boys team???

 

[Bad Intentions]

From last year, how many Gen Blue boys made the Australian School boys team???

a lot of them aye

barrett
dan nelson
fowler
tonga
leahy
bell
bryn edwards
ontini finau

 

[Rugbyparent]

a lot of them aye

barrett
dan nelson
fowler
tonga
leahy
bell
bryn edwards
ontini finau

No - those boys made the Australian 18s Team

Australian Schools and U18 squad confirmed

Rugby Australia have announced a 25-man Australian Schools and U18s squad.

www.rugby.com.au

Basically from the Gen Blue/Qld academy
Open to any player 18 and under - whether they are at school or not
So boys like Fowler eligible again this year.

The Aussie school boys team

The Australian Schoolboys 2022 Touring Team of Japan

The Australian Schoolboys 2022 touring team of Japan photographed at the end of today's training at Randwick Boys High School and David Philips Sports Field, home of the Waratahs. Next stop, Tokyo.

schoolsrugby.com.au

From boys that played at the equivalent of this weeks schools tournaments
Only open to boys at school

 

[dusk]

No - those boys made the Australian 18s Team

Australian Schools and U18 squad confirmed

Rugby Australia have announced a 25-man Australian Schools and U18s squad.

www.rugby.com.au

Basically from the Gen Blue/Qld academy
Open to any player 18 and under - whether they are at school or not
So boys like Fowler eligible again this year.

The Aussie school boys team

The Australian Schoolboys 2022 Touring Team of Japan

The Australian Schoolboys 2022 touring team of Japan photographed at the end of today's training at Randwick Boys High School and David Philips Sports Field, home of the Waratahs. Next stop, Tokyo.

schoolsrugby.com.au

From boys that played at the equivalent of this weeks schools tournaments
Only open to boys at school

Isn't Ausralian Schoolboys team the newer addition, or is it vice-versa

 

[AroundTheAnkles]

But Gen Blue is a higher form than NSW Schoolboys. Your point makes no sense. Why would they not pick the gen blue 1st scrumhalf for Aus schoolboys?

Because of the collapse in the relationship between Australian School
boys and the Gen Blue etc academies. It is all old man ego.

 

[Joker]

I won't claim to know all of the history but Grammar became more of an academic school under Headmaster Mackerras in the 70s and 80s. Their rugby program continued on but they lost more games than they won through the 80s and 90s. With the advent of professional rugby in the mid 90s, rugby scholarships programs became more prevalent in other schools particularly as those schools wanted to compete with the dominance of Joeys. Grammar had neither the right demographic of boys to compete nor the desire to offer sporting scholarships. Eventually boys with genuine rugby talent also started leaving the school to further their rugby careers eg Julian Huxley and Harry Jones (Rats winger who played GPS 1sts and CAS 1sts). Eventually it became a safety issue as thrashings and injuries left Grammar with no choice but to withdraw from the 1st XV.
Grammar has a small but enthusiastic program today. I believe that they are very happy with the arrangement of playing in the 3rd XV as they win as much as they lose and rarely win or lose by a large margin. My understanding is that there is no desire to return to the 1st XV competition - I'm not sure how they could even get there if they wanted to. Arguably they are little stronger than this 3rd XV competition and I think they have won the Premiership about 3 times in the last decade. They look like they will play off against Scots (and maybe Kings) for the 3rd XV Premiership this season in Term 3.
However it is not a deep program at the school with only 8 teams this year (3 in the Opens, 2 in the 14s and only one in every other year). I believe the current Year 11 cohort have been one of the strongest age groups over their years in the high school. The current 13s and 14s are reasonably strong and they often have comortable wins against lower graded teams which means that the boys don't often get the sort of challenging experiences that will make them better players. I highlight this as one of the challenges for a program with so few teams is where do they fit in.

Plenty in here.

One point....please do not make allegations (even though it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck....) against school using "the word that shall not be used" in regards to sport. There are plenty of music, academic, drama etc...opportunities offered by the AAGPS schools. A free ride for a student who can row well etc...they are not allowed as we know. So lets just say this....

Grammar could not keep up with the more professional approach adopted by other schools.

My cousin played in the Sydney Grammar 1st XV in 1984. He trained three afternoons a week and did one voluntary fitness session. Joeys in 1984 I am told trained two mornings, four afternoons and had "Healy" sessions in between for S&C. Joeys won 32-6 that year but in 1978 Grammar won 15-6. The difference was not that Joeys XXXXXXX players in 1984, it was down to the approach being used at Joeys and increasingly more schools. Grammar could not match (or justify) the time and effort. Plus there is the transport costs as boys needed to make their way from College Street to Rushcutters Bay.

 

[Joker]

Why can't we have a Gen Purple team made up of students from NSW/QLD who didn't make their Gen Blue, Gen Maroon, NSW Juniors, QLD Barbarians, NSW Barbarians, NSW 1, NSW 2, QLD 1, QLD 2......what's another bloody team to water down rep rugby. Soon there will be kids from the Joeys 8th's being selected.

Lets give everybody a ribbon!

 

[2 + 2]

I won't claim to know all of the history but Grammar became more of an academic school under Headmaster Mackerras in the 70s and 80s. Their rugby program continued on but they lost more games than they won through the 80s and 90s. With the advent of professional rugby in the mid 90s, rugby scholarships programs became more prevalent in other schools particularly as those schools wanted to compete with the dominance of Joeys. Grammar had neither the right demographic of boys to compete nor the desire to offer sporting scholarships. Eventually boys with genuine rugby talent also started leaving the school to further their rugby careers eg Julian Huxley and Harry Jones (Rats winger who played GPS 1sts and CAS 1sts). Eventually it became a safety issue as thrashings and injuries left Grammar with no choice but to withdraw from the 1st XV.
Grammar has a small but enthusiastic program today. I believe that they are very happy with the arrangement of playing in the 3rd XV as they win as much as they lose and rarely win or lose by a large margin. My understanding is that there is no desire to return to the 1st XV competition - I'm not sure how they could even get there if they wanted to. Arguably they are little stronger than this 3rd XV competition and I think they have won the Premiership about 3 times in the last decade. They look like they will play off against Scots (and maybe Kings) for the 3rd XV Premiership this season in Term 3.
However it is not a deep program at the school with only 8 teams this year (3 in the Opens, 2 in the 14s and only one in every other year). I believe the current Year 11 cohort have been one of the strongest age groups over their years in the high school. The current 13s and 14s are reasonably strong and they often have comortable wins against lower graded teams which means that the boys don't often get the sort of challenging experiences that will make them better players. I highlight this as one of the challenges for a program with so few teams is where do they fit in.

Harry Jones went to Kings then Barker and left school in 2014ish? Grammar were a basket case back in the 90's long before Harry was even born.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Why can't we have a Gen Purple team made up of students from NSW/QLD who didn't make their Gen Blue, Gen Maroon, NSW Juniors, QLD Barbarians, NSW Barbarians, NSW 1, NSW 2, QLD 1, QLD 2......what's another bloody team to water down rep rugby. Soon there will be kids from the Joeys 8th's being selected.

Lets give everybody a ribbon!

View attachment 16750

The old combined states?

Loved it when they won the Nationals.

Bit of egg on face that year

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

In a way the team selected from the Aus School champs (Australian Schoolboys) on now is Combined states if you tier the teams by the end of the rep season.

It’s the best of the rest for lack of a better term.

I know there is a patch work quilt right now but that’s been created by ASRU. The U18 system is an alignment that was missing for the betterment of Rugby as a whole.

I’m content with ARSU to continue to run their competition and sides as it provides more opportunities.

I will say some schools holiday camps/games become a bit diluted with the amount of boys involved from some schools now. Of course it’s great to see your boys in rep sides but Kings, View, Joeys, Knox etc would have at least half their 1sts away.

 

[Rugbynbeers]

It’s actually not complicated at all.

Gen blue select two teams plus some reserves, these boys go into a camp for around a week all gear food and flights to qld are payed for by wartahs. The same happens in every state with there respective sides.

Then the next best kids are picked in nsw schools 1 and 2, and from state champs a nsw juniors and nsw barbs team is selected.

Later in the year all the academy teams play in a tournament where a “Aus 18s” side is picked.

From the school’s tournament being held currently a Aus Schools and Aus barbs team is selected.