NSW AAGPS 2017

[Inside Shoulder]

P.S IS you must have be a well behaved student as Mackerras I believe gave then out when caned a boy. Or the 1st XV beat Joeys.

Well, we beat SJC @ SJC and he never gave me a frog for that, or winning the 2nd VIII!

 

[Black & White]

I am sure the results at the end of the season are likely to prove me wrong, but I going to make an initial assessment on where the schools could well finish up position wise for the 2017 season. I sure others will have differing assessments, but here goes:-

1/ SJC, but could finish with a shared premiership. I though their 16As were most impressive. With the likelihood of 12 teams in the open division they offer the most depth of any school.

2/ TKS, also another contender for a shared premiership. Or even an outright premiership. Had a strong 16As side and their open division had depth.

3/TSC, another stronger contender, they now have four in a row so they have a strong winning culture. They were strong in the opens last season.

4/NC, a strong 16A side could push them higher, equally, it has been said that Newington's tradition lack of depth in the open division, could hamper this team. But there is also the possibility that a shorter GPS season, may not present the physical ordeal that past seasons have presented.

5/SIC This is a side I know nothing about so my assessment could right off. SIC traditionally, has good depth and their players are bloodied earlier than other schools.

6/SCEGS, could be a surprise package, no school can afford to take them lightly. Don't be surprised if they knock off one of the high flyers this year.

All these assessment could be "turned on their heads" in the coming weeks and months. Finally,I believe that the preseason will play a greater role in preparing teams, than previous seasons. Simply because of its increased length.

 

[bigmac]

Well, we beat SJC @ SJC and he never gave me a frog for that, or winning the 2nd VIII!

During my time at sgs early 90s the headmaster dr Townsend gave rugby short shrift. After a heavy defeat to joeys in 1stxv he said he did not consider joeys a serious school boy side and seemed to want us out of the comp. Also wanted us out of rowing but cooler heads prevailed. A few years later the 1st eight did well at the National champs but rugby remained at a low ebb.

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[Inside Shoulder]

During my time at sgs early 90s the headmaster dr Townsend gave rugby short shrift. After a heavy defeat to joeys in 1stxv he said he did not consider joeys a serious school boy side and seemed to want us out of the comp. Also wanted us out of rowing but cooler heads prevailed. A few years later the 1st eight did well at the National champs but rugby remained at a low ebb.

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So you must know the new head and have some idea of his attitude - which I suspect will be something along these lines

 

[bigmac]

So you must know the new head and have some idea of his attitude - which I suspect will be something along these lines

The new headmaster was a year behind me. I didn't know hom too well.

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[Mr Touch Finder]

Any big GPS trial games this year? (excluding the so called "trials vs CAS)

 

[Black & White]

Any big GPS trial games this year? (excluding the so called "trials vs CAS)

I believe the big matches will involve schools, who will play either Knox or Waverly The others could well amount to games, with one sided scores. Shore who struggled at times in the GPS, despite displaying great courage,determination and effort. Really carved up Barker ( 48-7) and Cranbrook(28-0) in their trials last year. Waverly, also suffered in their trials against Scots in the 1st,2nd & 3rds. While the Waves A teams against Newington lost heavily in 14s,15s (L41-5 and 16s (L39-19).

For the good of Australian Rugby efforts must be made to even out the difference.

A start is to bring greater number Rugby Coaches from outside the school who love the game and who will share this love with the boys. Although, schoolboy schoolboy coaches give excellent service the reality is too many our Teachers feel like conscripts and lack the passion to coach. After all they are now recruited to expert teachers which most do very well.

The other coaching approach I would place emphasise on, is two coaches for a schoolboy team as boys are still learning the game. Hence, a forwards coach in particular, as well as a backs coach should be part of a rugby program.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

A start is to bring greater number Rugby Coaches from outside the school who love the game and who will share this love with the boys. Although, schoolboy schoolboy coaches give excellent service the reality is too many our Teachers feel like conscripts and lack the passion to coach. After all they are now recruited to expert teachers which most do very well.

The other coaching approach I would place emphasise on, is two coaches for a schoolboy team as boys are still learning the game. Hence, a forwards coach in particular, as well as a backs coach should be part of a rugby program.

Trying to squeeze more out of the incredibly limited pie that is Sydney school rugby is no answer: its more leveraged than most of the parents.
Expansion on a broader base is the only answer - by club or by presently non-playing rugby schools.

 

[CNorth]

Trying to squeeze more out of the incredibly limited pie that is Sydney school rugby is no answer: its more leveraged than most of the parents.
Expansion on a broader base is the only answer - by club or by presently non-playing rugby schools.

A lot of parents see there kids dominatate at club level and presume that should carry in to rep level. Doesn't take into account all those kids that don't play club. Such as boarders. Said parents get very vocal on Jonny playing out of position etc when such kids come into the mix. Wouldn't u agree IS??
Agree school comp is best to capture all.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The fundamental concern is to get more kids playing the game.
I dont see how you will get the game into the public schools and, if you cant do that, it has to be club driven.
All that a concentration of rugby resources in the form of highly qualified coaches in the private schools does is send a message that this is a game for private school kids.
Oh - and it gives those kids and their parents a belief that if you won the GPS the Bledisloe should be a cake walk

 

[CNorth]

Get were your coming from but club land has as many problems if not more than the schools.
Club not the answer. Greater school involvement is. Which needs to be driven by parents. Look at NZ for example.

 

[CNorth]

Ps the last bit re GPS etc. your better than that.

 

[Black & White]

Trying to squeeze more out of the incredibly limited pie that is Sydney school rugby is no answer: its more leveraged than most of the parents.
Expansion on a broader base is the only answer - by club or by presently non-playing rugby schools.

My apologies for not expanding on a potential alternative to GPS/CAS/ISA as a feeders for Rugby at the higher levels, such as Colts and Grade. Yes, you are perfectly right,IS, we need to expand the social and regional base of the game. My proposal is to create a Sports High Competition with the same structure as say the GPS system. That is 13s,14s,15s,16s and Opens.
Such schools could include Westfield's, Hills Sports and Illawarra Sports. Another might be Farrier Agricultural High at Tamworth.

Time for the ARU leadership to start talking with Rob Stokes, the new Eduction Minister, and sell the Rugby as an attractive sports option. Both on and offer the field, our code has a lot to offer.

As for the getting more out of the existing Rugby Pie, I feel not all is lost. Its dependant on individual schools, particularly the Headmaster. I really feel a school such as Kinross will expand under Dr Andrew Parry. With this,the expansion of rugby and the potential for Kinross to challenge St.Augustine's as the ISA's leading school.

Equally, Scots and Newington have grown as Rugby Schools and I know at Newington some of their best coaches are in charge of teams right down to the 13As. Quick Hands if your watching, could you kindly elaborate on New's Rugby Programme it sounds exciting. This Rugby Programme is pulling their Rugby out of Obscurity and Mediocrity, to one of excellence in regards to the "A" Teams. Depth I believe is also on the rise at New.

So some schools are going forward, through with their coaching. Other schools are marking time and others are going backwards.

 

[Footyhead#2]

Sorry, a little off topic but I recently heard that Riverview's #1 supporter, the legendary 'Matty' was told, perhaps gently, that he was no longer welcome at the school. Anyone out there got any details. Sad if it is true.

I'm surprised if that is true. The school have/had plans to find him a house on the school grounds when his parents pass away. Although new headmaster, new rules...

 

[footy4life]

I'm surprised if that is true. The school have/had plans to find him a house on the school grounds when his parents pass away. Although new headmaster, new rules.

I thought he already did live on the school grounds? I may be wrong

 

[formerflanker]

Sorry, a little off topic but I recently heard that Riverview's #1 supporter, the legendary 'Matty' was told, perhaps gently, that he was no longer welcome at the school. Anyone out there got any details. Sad if it is true.

It's been a while since I had anything to do with him so I don't have any recent knowledge, but your last comment is 100% right.

 

[Lindommer]

Not good for the fabric of any school/institution. Be nice to get to the bottom of this incident.

 

[Rugby Central]

Greater school involvement is. Which needs to be driven by parents. Look at NZ for example.

With no disrespect but this is very narrow focused private school thinking. Unlike the private schools, in state schools there is no rugby culture. The same goes for the redundancy of making any comparison to NZ.

Even if a state school could find 15 talented enough rugby players (not counting reserves), the schools do not have the resources, interest, or even authority to pursue it. However those 15 players could all join club rugby that is set up for the specific purpose of administering rugby matches.

Also, at non rugby schools, when you can get a team together, it's very unlikely you'll get 15 guys at representative standard. How often will the 3 blokes capable at that level keep turning out to play rugby when they get smashed week after week because the rest of the team just isn't up to standard. And there goes 3 more talented players lost to rugby. At least at Club rugby they can be graded more appropriately.

Allowing Clubs to play along side schools is the only functional way to keep players in rugby rather than other sports. However this would require the private schools to make a,what is probably an unacceptable, significant change. Which by the way I'm not sure they should be obliged to do.

But I believe this change will be chosen for them anyway as schools continue to diversify their sports programs and the need of fee generation grows from families with no tradition in rugby.

 

[Black & White]

With no disrespect but this is very narrow focused private school thinking. Unlike the private schools, in state schools there is no rugby culture. The same goes for the redundancy of making any comparison to NZ.

Even if a state school could find 15 talented enough rugby players (not counting reserves), the schools do not have the resources, interest, or even authority to pursue it. However those 15 players could all join club rugby that is set up for the specific purpose of administering rugby matches.

Also, at non rugby schools, when you can get a team together, it's very unlikely you'll get 15 guys at representative standard. How often will the 3 blokes capable at that level keep turning out to play rugby when they get smashed week after week because the rest of the team just isn't up to standard. And there goes 3 more talented players lost to rugby. At least at Club rugby they can be graded more appropriately.

Allowing Clubs to play along side schools is the only functional way to keep players in rugby rather than other sports. However this would require the private schools to make a,what is probably an unacceptable, significant change. Which by the way I'm not sure they should be obliged to do.

But I believe this change will be chosen for them anyway as schools continue to diversify their sports programs and the need of fee generation grows from families with no tradition in rugby.

The integration of clubs and schools occurs in The ACT. There Canberra Grammar, St.Edmunds,Dara and Marist, play Royals,Goulburn and other clubs.This competition extends beyond Canberra and includes Young, Yass and Jindabyne. As you pointed out, the advantage is that be it a school team or a club side, they are graded.The disadvantage is the travel, some sides won't travel down to places like Jindabyne. However, that is an issue when a competition is widely spread.

For it to work here in Sydney, the clubs would have to field representative sides from sides such as Eastwood, Gordon and Souths. This would make them competitive and offset the depth of those schools. The problem is that such representative sides, are heavily composed of boys from the Independent Schools. So for it to work the clubs would have to stand alone, with boys from non-government schools.

If club rugby clubs could emulate the strength of league juniors, them we could have such a integrated competition between Schools and Clubs. A few people in positions of leadership need to "step up".

 

[Dutchy]

The integration of clubs and schools occurs in The ACT. There Canberra Grammar, St.Edmunds,Dara and Marist, play Royals,Goulburn and other clubs.This competition extends beyond Canberra and includes Young, Yass and Jindabyne. As you pointed out, the advantage is that be it a school team or a club side, they are graded.The disadvantage is the travel, some sides won't travel down to places like Jindabyne. However, that is an issue when a competition is widely spread.

For it to work here in Sydney, the clubs would have to field representative sides from sides such as Eastwood, Gordon and Souths. This would make them competitive and offset the depth of those schools. The problem is that such representative sides, are heavily composed of boys from the Independent Schools. So for it to work the clubs would have to stand alone, with boys from non-government schools.

If club rugby clubs could emulate the strength of league juniors, them we could have such a integrated competition between Schools and Clubs. A few people in positions of leadership need to "step up".

A problem I see with this approach is the ability for clubs to stand up the number of teams required for each age group. In Joeys case there are 12 to 13 teams within the U17 & U18 age groups. Would/Could Gordon for example provide 5 to 6 teams to each age group? I suppose the lower graded school teams could play non representative clubs like Newport RC etc.

I do believe increasing participation and moving away from competing pathways is needed.

I also believe Rugby needs to work out how to lock in talented individuals to our code earlier. League clubs are doing a far better job at this as can be seen by the number of boys going straight from the ranks of the GPS schools into rugby league clubs.