NSW AAGPS 2017

[Inside Shoulder]

This thread gets like a London club at times.
The days of empire are gone.
The riff raff have kids at GPS schools.

 

[WLF]

The concern is that Rugby at Shore might go the way of Rugby at Grammar. If Shore collapses as major Rugby school its the end of GPS Rugby in Sydney. It will simply become an obscure game that is only exceeded by its mediocrity. We have loss so many good rugby schools that our base is all but disappearing.

We can expect to lose Barker in 2020 with full coeducation beginning then. Grammar and High went sometime ago, we have also lost North Sydney Boys. The Waratah Shield is dead. Everywhere you look Rugby is on the decline. What really angers me is the ARU are totally inept at securing the base, our grass roots. If get the club juniors right and the schools, things will move forward. Such a basic principle seems to have escaped the thinking of the ARU.

For me and others there is a real sense of sadness at Shore's recent results. As a student at Newington, outside of Joey's, Shore under Jika Travers were the next most difficult school to defeat. Yes, times have changed and soccer is now part of our GPS sports program. Which is why Rugby programs at our GPS, CAS and ISA schools need to be proactive, inclusive and progressive.

Its good to see Tim Wallace as MIC of Rugby is doing these things. Many years ago he was an instructor/ Coach on my Level Two Coaching course and I have a lot of time for Tim. If anyone can turn around Shore's fortunes Tim Wallace can.

B&W,

It is well known that I have banged on about this for some time, yep guilty.
It is for exactly the reasons you have stated, and it is the truth.

The new "super comp idea"is not my idea, not that I really read about it elsewhere but for gods sake, we as a system of associations need to think forward.

This will be my last post on this issue, to the delight of some/many, some will be absolutely thrilled, please let me know cos I enjoy a laugh.

I just hope those in charge of our schools and rugby programs, across both private and public systems do something, otherwise eventually get to like soccer or AFL.

 

[Armchair Selector]

Question for you Armchair, is it Brother Boyd that still MCs the open evenings? As I had a chat to a mate whose son is starting in Joeys in a few years .. and he was very impressed. That Boyd has to be one of the most impressive educators. however he must be getting on?
Is he still coaching the 15As?

Brother Anthony Boyd is alive and well! I cant comment on whether he MC's the open evenings but I wouldnt be surprised. As an educator and coach he has few peers.

Not sure how he would view your comments about "getting on" in age. When Ross Tarlington has previously been on sabbatical, Br Anthony has been the acting head.

I believe he still coaches the 15As having coached the Firsts for years. He has an admirable rapport with all the boys across all areas of school life in a no nonsense manner that the boys respect. It will be a very sad day at Joeys when he calls time.

As a broader observation of Joeys in reference to country/city mix. It has a unique culture that is cherished deeply by the "Joeys family"

Some stats/trivia that may bust some myths and shed some light on why the place is different:

There are 542 boarders at Joeys and the entire school population is approx 1090.

260 students are from the country or overseas.

In year 7 Boarders are 22% of enrollments. By Year 12 this grows to around 75%. In fact Joeys has 26% of all the boys boarding in any schools in Sydney!

Dubbo has the most Boarders, followed by Lane Cove and then Hunters Hill! (This still blows me away)

70% of Day boys stay back at school until 8 pm Monday - Thursday. So they spend around 12 hours a day at the school. A short day finishes at 5 pm.

It is compulsory for all boys to attend Head of the River, GPS Athletics and GPS Swimming Carnivals. In Winter attendance is compulsory at ALL Joeys First XV games. Hence the Sea of Cerise and Blue at all games.

Its a special place.

 

[Jim Belshaw]

This is really off topic. I was asked about someone who had been at TAS and went to past copies of the Armidalian to check. I ended up sidetracked, trawling through all the rugby reports from the fifties and sixties. I quote from 1958:

"On April 19 the 1st XV played its first G.P.S. Match against Riverview at Armidale and after a very good match we won 11-9. After the match the team were the guests of the Old Boys at a dinner held at Tattersall's Hotel."

The past is indeed a far country. I will try to write up my notes at some point.

 

[Spin it out]

I'll bet there are some people at Shore saying "lets find schools we can be competitive against".
The answer would lie outside the GPS.

Agree that Shore (and now possibly Riverview) is better playing similar standard schools for a fair part of the season.

There are many people at Shore (boys, parents & staff) not happy with the current rugby situation. While there is respect for Dr Wright's view that school sport should be "amateur" and not be an "imports arms race", it
is obviously hard for 1sts and A teams getting smashed week after week by larger and faster teams.

MIC of rugby Tim Wallace has overseen an excellent program of coaching co-ordinators for each age group, and the top teams do extra training and fitness, however Shore is still struggling with results.

To keep the boys in rugby they have to enjoy themselves, otherwise they will continue moving to soccer and AFL, making the situation worse.

Moving forward for next season I think the best option would be :

1. All schools play a couple of trial games
2. GPS & CAS play their 5 game competitions
3. Schools finals competition of 5 games, in 2 divisions :
Championship - top 4 GPS and top 2 CAS
Plate - bottom 2 GPS and bottom 4 CAS

If the above model had been adopted this year, a schools finals competition would probably have ended up with these schools :

Championship - Kings, Scots, Newington, Joeys, Waverley, Knox
Plate - Shore, Riverview, Trinity, Barker, Aloysius, Cranbrook

I appreciate that these changes would make hard work for the respective Sports Masters in scheduling all the games. Presumably all school's age groups would have to play the same schools as their 1sts in the finals division.​

 

[Hasbeen]

I have made more or less the same suggestion at times on the CAS thread. A competition is not a competition if some teams are not competitive. Adopting a cup/plate competition similar to the clubs seems to be the path. Leaving the two competitions as separate competitions will just result in more uneven scores/injuries/less kids playing in a downward death spiral. It is strange that so many parents and old Boys can see it but the Rugby administrators seem blind to the decline in the sport. It requires better co ordination of strategy between the ARU and the schools. The primary initial goal of that strategy should be arresting decline in the short term via more interaction between schools and local clubs. It will never happen in my lifetime.

 

[sidelineview]

The Cup/Plate (the name's changed already) is good food for thought.

The logistics of it may prove to be a nightmare for Sports Masters but I would envisage the top teams only in each grade competing. The other teams could continue on competing somehow ?

This wouldnt solve the problem of accommodating the weaker teams/schools in each Association to give them a fairer go. At the moment those schools would be Shore in GPS and Cranbrook and Aloysuis in CAS. Thats another issue.

However the basic idea is worth considering and would provide a lot of interest. So far, and this is only an estimate at this stage, it seems Waverley and Scots are favourites for each Association.

Imagine a Cup Grand Final between these 2 schools. It would be enormous.

 

[Mr ISA Rugby]

Hello!!! I would like to point out that there is more to schoolboy rugby in this city than just GPS and CAS. The ISA is a thing that those who follow GPS and CAS tend to forget quite often.

The idea of a super-comp that just has CAS and GPS without ISA is preposterous and arrogant. The quality of some schools in the ISA comp such as Stannies, Augustines, and Oakhill could match the majority of schools in the CAS and GPS.

The ISA rep team has been very competitive against other association rep teams.

We may be the little brother, but the quality of the competition should not be underestimated. In my opinion, a tiered competition should be formed on the basis of school. How this would be formed would need to be worked out through an extensive process but it is the future. Rugby is in real trouble and fixing the issue starts here - the ISA has 20 member schools...

 

[sidelineview]

Im sure the oversight wasnt intended.
Its just that this trial format involves GPS/CAS.

To expand the Cup/Plate idea to ISA would be a worthy consideration.

 

[sidelineview]

Probably better to continue the discussion in the Combined Comp thread

 

[Hasbeen]

Hello!!! I would like to point out that there is more to schoolboy rugby in this city than just GPS and CAS. The ISA is a thing that those who follow GPS and CAS tend to forget quite often.

The idea of a super-comp that just has CAS and GPS without ISA is preposterous and arrogant. The quality of some schools in the ISA comp such as Stannies, Augustines, and Oakhill could match the majority of schools in the CAS and GPS.

The ISA rep team has been very competitive against other association rep teams.

We may be the little brother, but the quality of the competition should not be underestimated. In my opinion, a tiered competition should be formed on the basis of school. How this would be formed would need to be worked out through an extensive process but it is the future. Rugby is in real trouble and fixing the issue starts here - the ISA has 20 member schools.

Yes I agree with that and if that was not overtly clear in my last posting I am in error. The idea of a cup/plate/divisional competition actually only makes sense with involvement of ISA. I dont think the previous comments were intended to specifically ignore or exclude ISA - the comments were directed to the overall structure of a NSW based Rugby comp - at least from my thinking.

 

[Mr ISA Rugby]

Yes I agree with that and if that was not overtly clear in my last posting I am in error. The idea of a cup/plate/divisional competition actually only makes sense with involvement of ISA. I dont think the previous comments were intended to specifically ignore or exclude ISA - the comments were directed to the overall structure of a NSW based Rugby comp - at least from my thinking.

In that case, I have no issue. This something that definitely needs to be considered.

Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk

 

[Short Ball]

I still don't understand why the issue of the CAS having a large skill discrepancy is the issue of the AAGPS to fix. It is clear that the CAS have some remarkable 1st XV's this year (Waverly, Knox) however at what point did the AAGPS become the custodian of schoolboy rugby? A lot of people want to harp on about Shore being particularly weak this year but it's all cyclical. May I remind you of Scots beating Newington by over 100 points 3 years ago?

The reality is Schoolboy rugby is not designed to provide for an "elite" competition but rather an outlet for young men in the form of sport. The AAGPS is an old boys club and it's for a reason. I do enjoy pre-season trial matches outside of competitions but it really should remain just that.

 

[sidelineview]

I still don't understand why the issue of the CAS having a large skill discrepancy is the issue of the AAGPS to fix. It is clear that the CAS have some remarkable 1st XV's this year (Waverly, Knox) however at what point did the AAGPS become the custodian of schoolboy rugby? A lot of people want to harp on about Shore being particularly weak this year but it's all cyclical. May I remind you of Scots beating Newington by over 100 points 3 years ago?

The reality is Schoolboy rugby is not designed to provide for an "elite" competition but rather an outlet for young men in the form of sport. The AAGPS is an old boys club and it's for a reason. I do enjoy pre-season trial matches outside of competitions but it really should remain just that.

You're right. The problems concerning the CAS comp is a matter for CAS to solve. Nothing to do with GPS.
The Cup/Plate idea doesnt eliminate either Association competition.
It adds another dimension and more interest to schoolboy rugby.

 

[Black & White]

To add another dimension to Schoolboy Rugby, is encourage, develop and organise the current schools of the Metropolitan Catholic Competition into their own rugby association. Additionally, the organisation of the Sports High Schools across Sydney into their own Competition is in need of Consideration.

Greater emphasises on club juniors for boys attending government schools has also been expressed on this site. Club structures should match our school's structure. This initiative would would provide another competition and source of players beyond the established independent schools.

These three competitions would expand Schoolboy rugby from the North Shore and the Eastern Suburbs into a cross cultural and multi-regional sport.The depth and talent these competitions would bring to Rugby would be breathe taking.

However, as stated before the ARU with its current tunnel vision, is unlikely to move in a direction that is progressive, innovative, inclusive and dynamic. Which would expand our player base and open up the game to new talent. This why our Super Rugby is so tragically mediocre. Limited participation against countries like NZ, who are far more inclusive in their player base.

In Ireland the Irish Rugby Union run schoolboy Rugby, organise their competitions and provide the infrastructure. Ireland with a player base smaller that of Australia, is lesson that the Australian Rugby can copy. Of course there are all those self interests, that need to be overcome. But our game is far too important to be left to a selfish few.

 

[Gary Owen III]

I'll bet there are some people at Shore saying "lets find schools we can be competitive against".
The answer would lie outside the GPS.

Interesting stat that is usually tossed up re the incredible depth of Joeys and how many games they win on the day.

From 31 fixtures last Sat, Shore won 11 drew 3 and lost 17.

most of the wins came from U13's and U14's.

 

[Armchair Selector]

Interesting stat that is usually tossed up re the incredible depth of Joeys and how many games they win on the day.

From 31 fixtures last Sat, Shore won 11 drew 3 and lost 17.

GOIII I genuinely believe Rugby at Shore is on the improve especially in younger age groups of 13s and 14s. The results vindicate the improved coaching and resourcing going into Rugby (about time)

Just a word of warning on last weeks results. Joeys incorporated fixtures with Barker in some age group higher teams. So Shore A's Played Joeys Bs and and Shore B's played C's etc etc, cascading down the grades.

The exceptions being 15A Joeys 50-Shore 7 and 14As 17 all draw.

Joeys 14c played Shore Bs etc

I am not sure what the reason was but Shore didn't play their 13As against either Barker of Joeys in their scheduled trials. So the results on 13s in those 2 weekends of trials will have been skewed.

 

[Quick Hands]

Interesting stat that is usually tossed up re the incredible depth of Joeys and how many games they win on the day.

From 31 fixtures last Sat, Shore won 11 drew 3 and lost 17.

most of the wins came from U13's and U14's.

Will be interested to see how things go this week. Newington have quite a strong 13s age group, but not quite so strong in 14s. There are also games against High in the mix as well this week.

 

[Rugby Survivor]

Confirming every Shore team that won last Saturday played a Joeys team either one or two grades lower than the respective Joeys team.
As Armchair correctly states the Shore 13's and 14's are relatively strong age groups and have good depth in terms of number of teams. The last two years at Shore Tim Wallace has been able to increase the quality of coaching throughout the school and this will have a positive impact on their program.
It must be remembered that one of the main reasons to change the format this year was to give some of the bigger rugby schools in the CAS a chance to play similar sized schools in the GPS. This allowed those sportsmasters to get games for all their kids against predominantly one school rather than having them playing six different schools at all parts of Sydney.
The 1sts and A teams are important but we need to keep kids playing rugby and away from the round ball and that red AFL ball. If they can't get games on weekends or continually play the same school each week then rugby will lose them.

 

[The Honey Badger]

To add another dimension to Schoolboy Rugby, is encourage, develop and organise the current schools of the Metropolitan Catholic Competition into their own rugby association. Additionally, the organisation of the Sports High Schools across Sydney into their own Competition is in need of Consideration.

Greater emphasises on club juniors for boys attending government schools has also been expressed on this site. Club structures should match our school's structure. This initiative would would provide another competition and source of players beyond the established independent schools.

These three competitions would expand Schoolboy rugby from the North Shore and the Eastern Suburbs into a cross cultural and multi-regional sport.The depth and talent these competitions would bring to Rugby would be breathe taking.

However, as stated before the ARU with its current tunnel vision, is unlikely to move in a direction that is progressive, innovative, inclusive and dynamic. Which would expand our player base and open up the game to new talent. This why our Super Rugby is so tragically mediocre. Limited participation against countries like NZ, who are far more inclusive in their player base.

In Ireland the Irish Rugby Union run schoolboy Rugby, organise their competitions and provide the infrastructure. Ireland with a player base smaller that of Australia, is lesson that the Australian Rugby can copy. Of course there are all those self interests, that need to be overcome. But our game is far too important to be left to a selfish few.

Ireland play a national Schools knock out comp. Senior Cup and Junior cup (u16). . The finals played at Donnybrook and are televised. Huge occasion for Irish rugby.



Sent from my F3115 using Tapatalk