NSW AAGPS 2017

[Azzuri]

Moleskins - in the old days anyone following kings would have known that: hi viz and hard hat has a lot to answer for since the GFC.
Lexis Nexis rather than Google, actually. google it.

Clever @IS. Surprised you knew the site existed, although in the unlikely event that you subscribe it doesn't appear to have helped you. Maybe change your subscription to Westlaw.

And thanks for picking up the typo however given your eagle eye it's hard to understand how you missed the question in my post.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

http://www.westlaw.com.au/maf/wlau/app/searchfromlink/run?stid=std-anz-shortlink&predefinedRelationshipsType=resultList&tocguid=AUNZ_TOC||anzbycontenttype&ds=AUNZ_SEARCHALL&metadocDomain=AUNZ_METADOC_DOM_DES&ndd=1&ao=o.AUNZ_TOC||anzbycontenttype&gve_m=0rhDCCmAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgOooD6DAhTQQDAYQCAuwBJwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgCAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABA&dsa_m=0rhDCCmAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgOooD6DAhTQQDAYQCAuwBJwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgCAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABA&d=Free Text ("he who asserts must prove")&q=(" #he #who #asserts #must #prove ") % =point-in-time-version&sortid=Relevancy-Weighted-WL&ct=Cases

Let me know if you want me to search the UK site too

 

[Azzuri]

Looks like the "tenth floor" computer system has been hacked. So if you are going to contact London you may as well check in with Julian at the Ecuadorian Embassy.

Now SC-IS please don't get don't get your wig in a frizz.

You've sought to step away from your original position by inserting the word "general" in front of the word rule. So I'm happy with that.

I do acknowledge and defer to your long and distinguished career as a Professional Nuance "argufier" but you and I both know there are a range of Commonwealth laws such as in Australia's Anti Discrimination legislation where the reverse legal burden of proof applies.

Anyhow....

 

[The Honey Badger]

Move on and talk rugby. Please, the rest of us are bored with this pissing duel.

 

[Ethan Jones]

My predicted Joeys 1st XV with what year they are in next year and team last year

1. Julian Heaven (Yr 11/16A)
2. James Bouchier (Yr 12/16A)
3. Fiu Gibson (Yr 12/3rds)
4. John Yates (Yr 12/1sts)
5. Nick Jansen/Tom Sutherland (Both Yr 12/Both 3rds)
6. Sam Abbey (Yr 12/Injured(1sts)) (Could be injured again)
7. Paddy Dalton (Yr 12/1sts)
8. Cody Edstein-Boyes (c) (Yr 12/1sts)
9. Dylan Dowling (vc) (Yr 12/1sts)
10. Vincent Creagh (Yr 11/16A)
11. Jack McConnell (Yr 11/16A)
12. Jack Quinn (Yr 12/2nds and 3rds)
13. Triston Reilly (Yr 12/1sts)
14. Joseph Kandalaft (Yr 12/2nds)
15. Zack Carey (Yr 11/16A)

Other Posibilities

6. Max Swanenberg (Year 12/2nds)
9. Joe Dalton (Yr 11/16A)
10. Sam Brandon (Yr 12/Injured)
7. Nelson Roberts (Yr 11/16A)
11. Lachlan Shortis (Yr 12/3rds)

Opportunity for a no. 6 as Sam Abbey might have redone his knee

 

[rollin_maul]

Other Posibilities

6. Max Swanenberg (Year 12/2nds)

Opportunity for a no. 6 as Sam Abbey might have redone his knee

Didn't Max make NSW 7s side this week? And he plays at no. 6 in 15s. I would have thought player with that sort of skill set would be one of first picked in any AAGPS 1st XV. Why only a possible?

 

[GPS Observer]

Prediction 1:

The changed competition format wont make any difference to school rugby recruitments

Prediction 2 :

The new 1 round competition with trial games against CAS just sets up a structure for a larger competition later ( one which was supposed to happen next year but didn't)

 

[HeresToRugby]

Prediction 1:

The changed competition format wont make any difference to school rugby recruitments

Prediction 2 :

The new 1 round competition with trial games against CAS just sets up a structure for a larger competition later ( one which was supposed to happen next year but didn't)

Are you sure about that? GPS already played CAS in trials and they are playing 3 trial games against GPS sides next year in any case. Why didn't they just bring the bigger comp in from the start or play the 2 rounds and plan for the bigger comp in 2018?

Endless trials are a farce (not the same as competition) & most kids (just ask them) that are lining up next year in the opens are disappointed as are many parents, Old Boys & supporters. This was not properly planned nor any consultation sought from the wider community. To make a decision 6 months out is IMO not well thought out.

My prediction: Next year's shemozzle will see a change one way or the other for more competition games in 2018.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

nor any consultation sought from the wider community.

How long have you been around the GPS schools?
They are a law unto themselves. They don't consult a "wider community". Hell, TKS didn't even listen to their old boys over the new head.
You pay your money and take what they give you.........and be grateful for that.
They are professional educationists and know what they're doing - they may just have different objects to this thread.

 

[The Honey Badger]

Endless trials are a farce (not the same as competition) & most kids (just ask them) that are lining up next year in the opens are disappointed as are many parents, Old Boys & supporters.

A game is a game. The boys will want to win and play their best regardless of it being a comp game or a trial. I am sure there will still be good crowds and the spectacle of GPS/CAS rugby will still be there. Make no mistake the trys and good tackles will still be in the Highlights reel.

For what its worth, I just bought tickets to watch the Waratahs and Brumbies trial at Mudgee next year, Its on ticketek and it will sell out. There is going to be a crowd of some thousands and they should be treated to some great rugby.

Everyone knows it a trial. But still they come because they appreciate the opportunity to see rugby played at that level and will see stars in action. The same will happen at schoolboy GPS/CAS. Just we will get to see a few more match ups between different schools in the associations.

 

[Show and go]

A game is a game. The boys will want to win and play their best regardless of it being a comp game or a trial. I am sure there will still be good crowds and the spectacle of GPS/CAS rugby will still be there. Make no mistake the trys and good tackles will still be in the Highlights reel.

For what its worth, I just bought tickets to watch the Waratahs and Brumbies trial at Mudgee next year, Its on ticketek and it will sell out. There is going to be a crowd of some thousands and they should be treated to some great rugby.

Everyone knows it a trial. But still they come because they appreciate the opportunity to see rugby played at that level and will see stars in action. The same will happen at schoolboy GPS/CAS. Just we will get to see a few more match ups between different schools in the associations.

I hope both teams play their full teams or at least give the top players plenty of game time so u get ur monies worth .

In a 5 round school Comp the coaches will be avoiding any unnecessary injuries in trial matches, making sure their best team takes the field come crunch time.

Also why show your hand against the same teams in the trials that you then play against them for keeps in the second round.

Ridiculous setup!

 

[HeresToRugby]

A game is a game. The boys will want to win and play their best regardless of it being a comp game or a trial. I am sure there will still be good crowds and the spectacle of GPS/CAS rugby will still be there. Make no mistake the trys and good tackles will still be in the Highlights reel.

For what its worth, I just bought tickets to watch the Waratahs and Brumbies trial at Mudgee next year, Its on ticketek and it will sell out. There is going to be a crowd of some thousands and they should be treated to some great rugby.

Everyone knows it a trial. But still they come because they appreciate the opportunity to see rugby played at that level and will see stars in action. The same will happen at schoolboy GPS/CAS. Just we will get to see a few more match ups between different schools in the associations.

OK I hear you but for me a trial is a trial. Coaches will still be experimenting & the reality is it's just not the same and that is why you have a competition. That is the real world. What other rugby comp goes for 5 games and has more than double the games in trials than the actual comp itself? I'm not sure there would be too many?

What I don't get is that GPS sides were already playing CAS sides so what is the point? I can't see it making any difference at all & has merely weakened interest that was sky high as witnessed in 2016 with the 2 round home and away comp.

 

[White line fever]

A game is a game. The boys will want to win and play their best regardless of it being a comp game or a trial. I am sure there will still be good crowds and the spectacle of GPS/CAS rugby will still be there. Make no mistake the trys and good tackles will still be in the Highlights reel.

For what its worth, I just bought tickets to watch the Waratahs and Brumbies trial at Mudgee next year, Its on ticketek and it will sell out. There is going to be a crowd of some thousands and they should be treated to some great rugby.

Everyone knows it a trial. But still they come because they appreciate the opportunity to see rugby played at that level and will see stars in action. The same will happen at schoolboy GPS/CAS. Just we will get to see a few more match ups between different schools in the associations.

Spot on Honey B.
All teams will be trying in EVERY game, that is human nature and boys who have spent months training are serious, so they do not want to lose any games!
Coaches likewise, and I suspect there was some experimenting of players in the old first round of all comps, so this is no different.
We are still only talking about a dozen or so games in a season, not 20-30, so every game is game on!
The problem Imo is there are too few teams in each comp now, so if you win your comp you have probably only out performed a small hand full of teams.
Is that a serious comp!

I am hoping that the GPS observer is right with his prediction 2, and is that a bigger comp is coming!
Winning that would be a REAL achievement.

 

[sidelineview]

The trial matches will provide opportunities for players to impress selectors for Rep teams. Apart from that it remains to be seen if these games will generate the same level of interest as 'real' comp games. I think not even though the desire to win wont be completely lost.
I doubt if the tribalism intensity will be the same

No coaches experiment with combinations in the first round of a proper competition but that doesnt mean changes aren't still made. The experimenting happens in the trial games.

 

[Quick Hands]

I've been out of the loop. There have clearly been changes. Could someone please explain the structure of next year's comp with a special focus on the thirds

I'll give it a go Jim.

In 2017, the GPS 1st and 2nd XV competition will comprise 1 x round of 5 matches. Prior to this the GPS schools will play 1st and 2nd XV trials against CAS schools. In the 3rd XV, Newington won't field a team and TAS will take their spot in the draw, so the 3rds will be a 1 round competiton of 7 rounds (only 8 teams). Additionally, TAS will play all matches in Sydney when playing schools with teams in the 1st and 2nd XV competition - not sure whether High and Grammar will continue to play home and away in alternate years or not.

In addition to the 1sts and 2nds only playing 5 GPS games, the first game is played on the 2nd last Saturday in Term 2, then there is a 5 week break until the second game on the first Saturday back in Term 3. You'd at least have thought that they could play the games on 5 consecutive Saturdays in Term 3.

I'm not sure how this all filters through the age groups - for example there are age groups where Newington have more or equal teams than Kings. Where TAS will fit when Kings play New is going to be interesting. The logical follow on from this is that Kings will soon have less open teams than Newington when numbers flow through - which will make even more of a mess of the 3rds competition.

My understanding is that Joeys pushed hardest for this and no doubt had support of others.

It has only been agreed to for one year.

I'm not against change, in fact the change which resulted in the inclusion of TAS, Grammar and High in the 3rds and a 6 team, two round 1sts and 2nds competition seemed to be a good change.

I honestly can't see how this improves anything - unless you are the person who organises the buses at Joeys, who will now have less destinations about which to worry.

 

[SonnyDillWilliams]

I agree 2017 is a precursor to a wider comp .... so a lot will hinge on how the so-called trials go ... so if Shore demolishes someone like a Waverley, or Newington demolishes a Knox, then that will throw a spanner in the works

otherwise if there aren't too many cricket scores, 2018 will see a super comp

however either way I don't see this as a good thing for Aussie rugby

until someone how they rebuild the public school rugby (the old CHS pathway), I am only seeing a narrowing .... even if the super comp will provide the silver spooners a good time, until they swan off into the land of "milk and honey"

 

[Quick Hands]

^^^In fact, it's the ultimate lose/lose - which makes me think that the ARU have their fingers in it somewhere.

 

[Quick Hands]

I agree 2017 is a precursor to a wider comp .. so a lot will hinge on how the so-called trials go . so if Shore demolishes someone like a Waverley, or Newington demolishes a Knox, then that will throw a spanner in the works

I don't think that a CAS school beat a GPS school in any trial match in 2016 (I don't include High or Grammar in this). Some of those were quite one-sided, in addition to which Barker will move to become fully co-educational over the next few years which will reduce their rugby numbers by approximately 50%..

The comp doesn't look so super at all to me.

 

[sidelineview]

I don't think that a CAS school beat a GPS school in any trial match in 2016 (I don't include High or Grammar in this). Some of those were quite one-sided, in addition to which Barker will move to become fully co-educational over the next few years which will reduce their rugby numbers by approximately 50%..

The comp doesn't look so super at all to me.

I have said before that trial form shouldn't be taken too seriously, and that's on the back of people boasting about results.
In the past, these trial matches have been an opportunity for coaches to experiment with different combinations. A full compliment of players may not have taken the field and swapping and changing players throughout a game doesn't help.
Normally coaches would have been prioritising deciding on combinations and giving players a fair go rather than winning a trial game. Trial games are preparation for comp games.

For example, Waverley improved 500% last season from their 'trial' form against GPS schools. Speculating on the results of those games had they been replayed in a comp proper and based on trial form is exactly that: speculation.

But ''trial'' form will be viewed differently next season.

However, the question remains: can CAS schools (Knox and Waverley in the top division) consistently compete with GPS schools year-in-year-out? On form from last season, both schools would have been confident, but Waverley struggled in the previous couple of seasons so they may have had unhappy seasons.

CAS rep team, based on results have been competitive with GPS, but bringing that back to individual schools is a different matter.

There's also a disparity in the way some CAS and GPS schools "recruit'' so it could be argued that the playing field is uneven before you start.

I'm repeating what has been stated in previous posts but the fact remains that the comp format for next year is an experiment.
I'm not a fan but maybe ''they'll'' get it right in 2018, whoever ''they'' are.

Within the big picture of Australian rugby and compared to other issues that needed to be addressed, such as the promotion of rugby in public schools, the make up of private school comps was not the problem.
So i have to wonder what other changes are on the drawing board.

 

[Rich_E]

I'll give it a go Jim.

In 2017, the GPS 1st and 2nd XV competition will comprise 1 x round of 5 matches. Prior to this the GPS schools will play 1st and 2nd XV trials against CAS schools. In the 3rd XV, Newington won't field a team and TAS will take their spot in the draw, so the 3rds will be a 1 round competiton of 7 rounds (only 8 teams). Additionally, TAS will play all matches in Sydney when playing schools with teams in the 1st and 2nd XV competition - not sure whether High and Grammar will continue to play home and away in alternate years or not.

In addition to the 1sts and 2nds only playing 5 GPS games, the first game is played on the 2nd last Saturday in Term 2, then there is a 5 week break until the second game on the first Saturday back in Term 3. You'd at least have thought that they could play the games on 5 consecutive Saturdays in Term 3.

I'm not sure how this all filters through the age groups - for example there are age groups where Newington have more or equal teams than Kings. Where TAS will fit when Kings play New is going to be interesting. The logical follow on from this is that Kings will soon have less open teams than Newington when numbers flow through - which will make even more of a mess of the 3rds competition.

My understanding is that Joeys pushed hardest for this and no doubt had support of others.

It has only been agreed to for one year.

I'm not against change, in fact the change which resulted in the inclusion of TAS, Grammar and High in the 3rds and a 6 team, two round 1sts and 2nds competition seemed to be a good change.

I honestly can't see how this improves anything - unless you are the person who organises the buses at Joeys, who will now have less destinations about which to worry.

^^^^^

The clearest articulation of the dogs breakfast that has been created for 2017 that I have read so far.