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NRL: Considering a Raid on 'Vulnerable Rugby'?

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Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
If there's anything that this Cooper episode demonstrates, it's that the mungos simply don't have the cash for big name poaching.

QC (Quade Cooper) was the ripest for the plucking - young guy just hitting his straps with a few recent hiccups. I'd suggest he's toward the bottom end of the ARU big earner scheme, and the Eels' very best top offer ($500k/yr) couldn't even match what he was already on.

Our (East coast Australia's) introspective obsession with league has completely distorted all perception of value. Relative to rugby, there is no big 'big money' in league, and unless you get a gig on The Footy Show, it's a complete career dead end.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
If there's anything that this Cooper episode demonstrates, it's that the mungos simply don't have the cash for big name poaching.

QC (Quade Cooper) was the ripest for the plucking - young guy just hitting his straps with a few recent hiccups. I'd suggest he's toward the bottom end of the ARU big earner scheme, and the Eels' very best top offer ($500k/yr) couldn't even match what he was already on.

Our (East coast Australia's) introspective obsession with league has completely distorted all perception of value. Relative to rugby, there is no big 'big money' in league, and unless you get a gig on The Footy Show, it's a complete career dead end.

you are right, i suppose the biggest thing at the moment would be the value of job satisfaction..

Plain and simple, the NRL would have a higher week to week job satisfaction over rugby union. Whilst rugby union gets to 'see the world', there is only so much fun you can have travelling the world whilst on a tight ARU management leash. Its also a negative, been separated from your friends and family for such lengthy times.

Rugby Union does have the other perks of a RWC, but you compare that to the State of Origin and you really have to wonder what appeals more. Rugby Union used to have a exstensive old boys network for a career afterwards, however with the advent of professionalism, this has been somewhat reduced.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
If there's anything that this Cooper episode demonstrates, it's that the mungos simply don't have the cash for big name poaching.... I'd suggest he's toward the bottom end of the ARU big earner scheme, and the Eels' very best top offer ($500k/yr) couldn't even match what he was already on.....

Gagger, you would have better means of confirming all these figures being bandied around than most of us, but it would seem there's a lot of uncertainty about what the Eels' offer really is, and what salary terms QC (Quade Cooper) actually gets from the Reds and ARU, and what he might have been offered by them....for instance:

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/cooper-in-dash-to-check-out-eels-20100820-138ug.html

and an interesting set of perspectives from Wayne Smith:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...even-deadly-sins/story-e6frg7mf-1225907980890
 

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
interesting RH thanks for that. Once again who ever is in charge of negotiating contracts for the ARU has shown their complete incompetence and should be shown the door. if of course it's true.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
interesting RH thanks for that. Once again who ever is in charge of negotiating contracts for the ARU has shown their complete incompetence and should be shown the door. if of course it's true.

Sully, one of the things I like about Wayne Smith (the rugby journo one, link above) is that it's not often that he misquotes or gets his 'insider' data too wrong. I would think there'd be some truth to the items he quotes re the 'lack of level playing fields' within the ARU's approach to top player pay, and some of the messes they've gotten themselves into over pay deals in the past that are being exposed now.

I have said it here before: anyone who thinks that the ARU is brilliant, fair, thoughtful, pro-active, etc at handling these types of pay situations with the best players is, unfortunately, dreaming.

And now, mid-2010, the whole situation within the ARU is getting worse as their top line income is in difficulty, sponsorship etc is falling, they're in 'squeeze mode'. Just another of the 50+ good reasons why this nonsense that '...the Wallabies don't have to be obsessed with winning today, it's all about the RWC...' is so dangerous for the code's welfare.
 

Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
Gagger, you would have better means of confirming all these figures being bandied around than most of us, but it would seem there's a lot of uncertainty about what the Eels' offer really is, and what salary terms QC (Quade Cooper) actually gets from the Reds and ARU, and what he might have been offered by them

The only info I've got is that the player Wayne Smith referrs to getting a bigger top up than Cooper is Mark Gerrard.

Carefully read what they write in the SMH. They've got no source for the $850k, it seems to be pure speculation that they would offer Cooper the same as the current league name Cronk, which makes no sense. Compare this to the Telegraph article in which Parramatta's boss Osborne is on the record as saying

"We won't be able to match rugby's overall package but it can't be about money for Quade," he said.


To get any mileage the Telegraph had to conflate and compare the total 3 year League deal (500k x 3 = 1.5 mill) vs the one year ARU deal (approx 700k).

Note in the latest SMH article they say

(the NRL) have tabled a massive offer that could enable Australia's Super 14 player of the year to earn up to $1 million through third-party deals.

Who says? Over what period? What does he need to do to enable these payments that could appear?

It's all shoddy as hell
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
It is again why I questioned the buying of League Stars at such hugely inflated prices. People have argued that they brought a higher profile to the game but I argue that before the 2003 RWC we were World Champs and had the Cup in our backyard. How much more profile could be gained from a couple of players.

Added to the fact that I seriously doubt the "value" that those players purchased gave any real value to the game at either Province or Test level over what could have been gained from the Rugby options available that then left and went overseas.

The fact that people can effectively debate over whether a player was really that good for either the Tahs or the Wallabies means that he probably didn't deserve the massive money. Similarly argument is being had regarding Giteau.

These instances have to prove to the ARU that single players do not make a TEAM. The line has to be drawn and the players told the days of hugely inflated salaries like that offered to Giteau, Tiquiri et al just will not happen. If they do not want to play for the Wallabies under those circumstances than good bye. $500K to train and play Rugby and travel the World doing it is a damn fine deal. Then take into account that people who play for the National team rarely if ever struggle for employment afterwards, which is a bit of a contrast to Mungo ball.
 

Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
you are right, i suppose the biggest thing at the moment would be the value of job satisfaction..

Plain and simple, the NRL would have a higher week to week job satisfaction
over rugby union. Whilst rugby union gets to 'see the world', there is only so much fun you can have travelling the world whilst on a tight ARU management leash. Its also a negative, been separated from your friends and family for such lengthy times.

Rugby Union does have the other perks of a RWC, but you compare that to the State of Origin and you really have to wonder what appeals more. Rugby Union used to have a exstensive old boys network for a career afterwards, however with the advent of professionalism, this has been somewhat reduced.

Not being able to have group sex with your team mates while overseas on tour is a reason for less job satisfaction??

At the end of the day if someones of the mentality that a state of origin gig is bigger than a real World Cup (as well as earning more money for longer), then there's nothing you can do for them. I agree that bizarrely there seems to be plenty of that around in Australia, but there'll always be small minded people wherever you go I guess.
 

liquor box

Peter Sullivan (51)
Not being able to have group sex with your team mates while overseas on tour is a reason for less job satisfaction??

At the end of the day if someones of the mentality that a state of origin gig is bigger than a real World Cup (as well as earning more money for longer), then there's nothing you can do for them. I agree that bizarrely there seems to be plenty of that around in Australia, but there'll always be small minded people wherever you go I guess.

As far as sex goes, my money is on him staying in Brisbane, why would you leave Stephanie Rice???
 

Moses

Simon Poidevin (60)
Staff member
As far as sex goes, my money is on him staying in Brisbane, why would you leave Stephanie Rice???
Are Quade and Stephanie Rice dating? Would explain her shoulder injury if he pulled a goose step in the bedroom
 

Langthorne

Phil Hardcastle (33)
The ARU needs to set their player payment structure up to reflect their resources. If there are players who want to move overseas to play rugby (or to a different sport, no matter how provincial or boring) then so be it.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
The ARU needs to set their player payment structure up to reflect their resources. If there are players who want to move overseas to play rugby (or to a different sport, no matter how provincial or boring) then so be it.

catch22, the ARU's resources are dictated by the players that they have..

Without a doubt if the Wallabies were winning and playing attractive football, then more people would be watching, more people would be turning up, more merchandise sold and sponsors would be willing to play more, the wallabies wont win anything if they let every player who gets a larger offer from somewhere else, hence the caliber of players is in direct relation to the resources that the ARU has.

In saying that, if a player is demanding $1.5million/year, then unless his name is kobe byrant and his signature boosted merchandise sales %1000 then they aren't worth it.
 
K

KiwiPower

Guest
NRL obviously feeling the heat of continual raid/defections over time of marqee players . . . some that spring to mind that left (and later returned) Gasnier, Tuqiri, Sailor, Tahu, Walker, Rogers; plus Sonny-Bill-Williams, Barnes and others still in rugby, add in Hunt and Folau to AFL, heck it all seems to be one-way traffic. No wonder they're panicking.

Does Australia need to grow the game or organise the game better? Waste the time adding to something that's broken I would have thought. I understand you no longer have a second tier competition similar to our ITM provincial comp. How does that help Australian rugby? Where do non-international players go to play once club rugby and S14 ends? Enter a coupla composite teams in NZ ITM comp?
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
....catch22, the ARU's resources are dictated by the players that they have.. Without a doubt if the Wallabies were winning and playing attractive football, then more people would be watching, more people would be turning up, more merchandise sold and sponsors would be willing to play more, the wallabies wont win anything if they let every player who gets a larger offer from somewhere else, hence the caliber of players is in direct relation to the resources that the ARU has. ....

TOCC - you're absolutely right.

It often strikes me how many posters here either don't appreciate - or perhaps have no interest in - the core economics of the game in Australia, which are in a state of quite serious trend-line deterioration that, if not arrested, will worsen and force the code back into a true niche status that will be highly threatening to its very survival. Once and if that occurs, there will be, around say 2013, a nasty negative tipping point where the down decline commences an exponential phase. The core reason will simply be that the better professional players will (a) not be affordable by the ARU or State RUs as their incomes are materially lowered and (b) the flourishing other codes here or in the EU/Japan will scoop them up and we will simply be local talent developers (up to say U16-18) and player exporters.

As you note, the origins of this problem are readily identified, there's no mysteries here:

- the ARU since 2003 has failed to strategically market, develop and grow the code in a manner sufficiently competitive with other football codes;

- the ARU, in its introversion and complacency, has made the fatal mistake of under-controlling and under-developing ACT, NSW and QLD rugby and allowed these states to gradually deteriorate either financially (worst case QLD, to de facto bankruptcy) and/or play-style wise to the point where almost all rugby states are experiencing declining gates and, bar the occasional Tahs semi-final slot, not winning at the top of the S14 (and thus not reinforcing and building deep fan pride back in the states);

- the Aus rugby states are (mostly) wallowing in managerial and code-growing and coaching mediocrity such that the style of rugby they are playing and promoting is, slowly but inexorably, alienating fans who want feisty wins and dynamic, fast-paced, ball-in-hand oval football al la AFL and league;

- the Wallabies slow decline from 2003 to 2010 is both part-symptom and part-cause of the above, and their decline in w-l ratio (esp vs ABs) and powerful, exciting play-style is fuelling the overall decline in rugby brand attractiveness and game income at a national level, creating further ARU income stresses and related vicious circles;

- generically, the game is Australia has evolved from a private schools, not public, base and thus has been based around a mist of a self-perceived superiority and 'born to always be there' complex which has in part been the genesis the above problems, and certainly, in its continuing insularity and irrational smugness, is today perpetrating them.

Until the above insularity syndromes, and code-critical managerial and coaching issues are decisively fixed, there will only be further decline of Australian rugby, and increasing danger to its core viability. The arrival of the Rebels and the expanded S15 are only a small part of the positive actions required.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
KiwiPower, if I had my way and making the assumption that the ARC is a dead option, I would petition the NZRU for a combined trans-Tasman provincial comp, with 8 teams from NZ and the five S15 teams from OZ. If the SANZAR partnership were to break down, I expect this is exactly what would happen.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
KiwiPower, if I had my way and making the assumption that the ARC is a dead option, I would petition the NZRU for a combined trans-Tasman provincial comp, with 8 teams from NZ and the five S15 teams from OZ. If the SANZAR partnership were to break down, I expect this is exactly what would happen.

Who would the 8 NZ teams be? I would prefer to see the existing 10 Super franchises in ANZ joined by Japanese, Pacific Islands and Argentine franchises. The Pac Island franchise could be based in NZ, the Argies in Sydney. Japan is on our timezone, more or less.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
Whoever the NZRU decided they would be. They could opt to keep the provincial structure together or to use the S15 franchise system and have five teams. I like the idea of PI and Argie teams being involved, but only if they have their best players, otherwise it would be a massacre every week.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
Are Quade and Stephanie Rice dating? Would explain her shoulder injury if he pulled a goose step in the bedroom

Nah I think a spear-tackle would explain the injury better. Steph suspended him from the bedroom for two weeks- a bit harsh if you ask me.
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
I was toying with the idea of a ARC/ITM Cup crossover, but I think it would suffer too badly in Aus and would probably suffer in NZ as well because NZ'ders may not be as keen to see a NZ team without many of its stars play an unknown Aus team.
 
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