NRL: Considering a Raid on 'Vulnerable Rugby'?

[Lance Free]

You've got to remember also that the NPC/ANZC/ITM Cup loses money hand-over-fist. As the Air NZ Cup, they tried to reduce the number of teams from 14 to 12 last year because of the cost overuns. There was too much of a fuss so they've kept it at 14 this year. But they're now heading to a reduced format next year (two tier competition) and a lowering of the salary cap. The base rate for a player is a minimum $NZ15,000. You'll notice if you watch it on telie that the crowds are a bit sparse at times, although the figures are better than a year or two ago.

A quote from the 2008 NZRFU Report into their national provincial competition says:

"The NZRU does not favour the inclusion of Australian teams into the NPC for the following reasons:

1. Any Australia team would need to be in direct substitution for a New Zealand Provincial Union;
2. The Air New Zealand Cup would no longer be New Zealand rugby’s “National Provincial Championship”;
3. It would add costs to the NZRU as competition organiser with the trans-Tasman travel;
4. It would blur the differentiation between Super Rugby and the Air New Zealand Cup;
5. The majority of feedback is that the Air New Zealand Cup should be semi-professional and managed by a salary cap. Attempting to impose a similar salary cap on teams from Australia would, even if legally possible, be very complicated.

Ultimately, for the reasons set out above, none of the competition options below contemplate the involvement of Australian teams."

 

[RugbyReg]

my boys' school had NRL development officers (NRL, not ARL or QRL) come to the school for about 8 weeks of 'lessons'.

I have no problems with that. My eldest plays rugby, and loves it, and my 2nd wants to play next year cool.

But I turned up to pick them up on Monday and every child in the school (Prep to 7, boy and girl) had a brand spanking new footy. Now what an impact that makes.

Do the ARU have any junior programs in schools? Like Auskick and this program?

 

[TOCC]

You've got to remember also that the NPC/ANZC/ITM Cup loses money hand-over-fist. As the Air NZ Cup, they tried to reduce the number of teams from 14 to 12 last year because of the cost overuns. There was too much of a fuss so they've kept it at 14 this year. But they're now heading to a reduced format next year (two tier competition) and a lowering of the salary cap. The base rate for a player is a minimum $NZ15,000. You'll notice if you watch it on telie that the crowds are a bit sparse at times, although the figures are better than a year or two ago.

A quote from the 2008 NZRFU Report into their national provincial competition says:

"The NZRU does not favour the inclusion of Australian teams into the NPC for the following reasons:

1. Any Australia team would need to be in direct substitution for a New Zealand Provincial Union;
2. The Air New Zealand Cup would no longer be New Zealand rugby’s “National Provincial Championship”;
3. It would add costs to the NZRU as competition organiser with the trans-Tasman travel;
4. It would blur the differentiation between Super Rugby and the Air New Zealand Cup;
5. The majority of feedback is that the Air New Zealand Cup should be semi-professional and managed by a salary cap. Attempting to impose a similar salary cap on teams from Australia would, even if legally possible, be very complicated.

Ultimately, for the reasons set out above, none of the competition options below contemplate the involvement of Australian teams."

precisely, i would love to see Australian teams included, but there isn't any fair way of achieving this...
Say NSW put forward a team to the NPC, that team would have the highest concentration of S14 players out of the NPC, arguably leading to a rather dominant NSW side.

 

[RedsHappy]

my boys' school had NRL development officers (NRL, not ARL or QRL) come to the school for about 8 weeks of 'lessons'. I have no problems with that. My eldest plays rugby, and loves it, and my 2nd wants to play next year cool. But I turned up to pick them up on Monday and every child in the school (Prep to 7, boy and girl) had a brand spanking new footy. Now what an impact that makes. Do the ARU have any junior programs in schools? Like Auskick and this program?

You're on the right track here RR, IMO. My son (here in central Brisbane) went to a good state primary school a couple of years back. There was both Auskick and a a similar program from the NRL that supported school PE teachers kicking off little league teams for the school, partly just as PE.

I was staggered to realise there were no equivalent initiatives coming to this school from the ARU or QRU - this is a prime rugby state of which there are only two!! My son then moved to a rugby-loving private school, and of course rugby was all over the place. (Btw, when he was selected for a U11 tour of NZ schools, he was up against teams who had systematic support from the NZRU to be coached (at U11 level) by sponsored recent ex-AB players (one of whom reffed one of my son's games there) ).

One of Brisbane's oldest rugby-playing GPS schools in U12 has, this year, more soccer teams than rugby ones, for the first time ever.

IMO, one of the 'top ten' strategic actions that the ARU MUST take to rebuild rugby in Aus is to get an Auskick-iike rugby development program going in selected NSW and QLD state schools, and additionally to ensure that rugby is fully consolidated in the old enclaves of the private schools.

A final aside: in 2009 my then 11 yr old got bored with me taking him to (losing) Reds games. I took him to that fabulous 2010 Reds v WF match at home, he could not believe QC (Quade Cooper) and the back line and the whole excitement factor, and after that 'dad, take me to every game to see Genia and Cooper'....many dads report the same trend! Fine players, dynamic running play, winning. Perhaps one day we shall see the ARU going back to understanding the importance of those simple things.

 

[RedsHappy]

precisely, i would love to see Australian teams included, but there isn't any fair way of achieving this...
Say NSW put forward a team to the NPC, that team would have the highest concentration of S14 players out of the NPC, arguably leading to a rather dominant NSW side.

All these creative speculations re additional Aus and/or Aus-NZ comps sub-the-S15 etc are indeed creative and worth tossing around, but the central fact is this: who will fund the inevitable starting cash flow gap between (low) income and relatively high expenditure, and that being a cash flow gap that will continue for, say, 2-3 years before cash in and out are balanced?

There's only 4 sources - RU subsidies, TV/media, business sponsorship, gate.

The RUs are already (from mild to very) financially stressed. There is little spare debt or cash capacity there for wholly new comps, especially of highly uncertain earning capacity. TV will not be interested until attendances and attractiveness is confirmed. Sponsorship and gate maybe, but not likely be enough without RU subsidies. And so on - so the economics are a/the key problem.

I have a simple (not new) idea (and one of my 'top 10' actions for the ARU btw): we _must_ start a 3-game rugby State of Origin (with two tiers, see following) and if it replaces some of these lamentable (attendance declining) June Tests and silly BaaBaas games, so be it. There is absolutely no doubt that a rugby SOO would (a) attract major media/TV attention to the code (b) make very good money for sure (c) get big crowds, with plenty of kids. The two tiers - Ist SOO XV and (curtain-raiser) 2nd SOO XV (the latter chosen solely from each state's club players) are important as (a) they'd bring other state players to prominence and (b) would give club-level players a positive main stage as curtain-raiser to the Ist SOO XV that would be (largely) Test or ex-Test players. Importantly, these teams would be wholly detached from the Wallabies, separate selectors and coaches. Next, with modern gate/ticket checking methods, we could potentially charge say 20% more to see both games than to see just the top SOO.

Anyway, IMO, these types of serious innovations in the way in which rugby is constructed and marketed are essential to preserving and growing the code in Australia.

 

[TOCC]

RedsHappy, i think you will find that the extreme cost of starting up a new competition has been my biggest point the whole way along

 

[RedsHappy]

RedsHappy, i think you will find that the extreme cost of starting up a new competition has been my biggest point the whole way along

Absolutely! You have said it well TOCC. But not halted the hopes of many, as they keep advocating new comps without proposing who's (realistically) going to pay. Just wanted to add my 2cs on this key point. IMO, and I think you agree, what we must focus on today is what we/ARU/State RUs can realistically do to _drive up the income flow to the game at S15 and Wallaby levels not just find new ways of draining the already stretched cash resources of the RUs_.

 

[TOCC]

Absolutely! You have said it well TOCC. But not halted the hopes of many, as they keep advocating new comps without proposing who's (realistically) going to pay. Just wanted to add my 2cs on this key point. IMO, and I think you agree, what we must focus on today is what we/ARU/State RUs can realistically do to _drive up the income flow to the game at S15 and Wallaby levels not just find new ways of draining the already stretched cash resources of the RUs_.

Precisely, whilst its all nice and well to advocate nation wide rugby comps, the matter of the fact is that any competition needs to be economically sustainable, like ive said earlier, this doesnt mean that it has to run a surplus, but what it does mean is that it must at least run a loss which is sustainable when factoring in the cash reserves of the ARU and state bodies.

Considering the ARU had to pay the ABC to broadcast the ARC, we can rule out broadcast income funding the comp, on top of that the crowds barely averaged 3'000, with the teams in the 'heartlands' of QLD and NSW actually faring the worse, with crowds regularly around 1'000.

I think we should wait and see, the way the S15 is progressing it might not be long before each country independently runs there own conference, with the 'Super' series itself been similar to the Heinekin Cup, at which point a third tier would become redundant as the 'conference' system effectively moves into the third tier.

Anyway we are getting a little off topic.

 

[wolverine]

TOCC, RedsHappy and Lance Free,

I agree with the thrust of your posts on this thread arguing why there are significant start up costs to setting up an ARC style national competition that possibly could not be met. In particular, Posts 41 identifies precisely why NZ wouldn't want Aus teams in the NPC, post 45 identifies why an ARC styyle national comp. Those posts would be perfect for the thread Should the Australian Rugby Championship come back.

In that thread, I'll suggest that perhaps an Anglo-Welsh Cup style secondary competition involving Australian teams (perhaps Super franchises minus Wallabies) and Japanese Top League teams might create a significantly different product that doesn't compete with Super 15 or club Rugby.

 

[TOCC]

that's a rather interesting proposal Wolverine, the thing which appeals about Japan so much to Australian rugby is the time zone factor, its just possible that a Japanese broadcaster may be willing to pay up a few $million for a ARC(joint aus/japan) style comp. Its a whole different game in terms of sponsorship as well, whilst Australian sponsors may be unwilling to front up for such a comp, its plausible that some Japan companies would be very willing.

Additionally, it could be used as a prelude to test out the dynamics of including a Japanese team in a expanded Super15 later down the track...

However, negotiating such a competition would be very difficult, the rugby culture of Australia and Japan are completely different.

 

[wolverine]

that's a rather interesting proposal Wolverine, the thing which appeals about Japan so much to Australian rugby is the time zone factor, its just possible that a Japanese broadcaster may be willing to pay up a few $million for a ARC(joint aus/japan) style comp. Its a whole different game in terms of sponsorship as well, whilst Australian sponsors may be unwilling to front up for such a comp, its plausible that some Japan companies would be very willing.

Additionally, it could be used as a prelude to test out the dynamics of including a Japanese team in a expanded Super15 later down the track...

However, negotiating such a competition would be very difficult, the rugby culture of Australia and Japan are completely different.

Cheers TOCC, and good points. You are right that negotiating such a competition would be difficult, and that the Rugby cultures in Australia and Japan are very different. The JRFU can seemingly be old fashioned, inward-looking, and the game there may require modernisation - as Japanese soccer undertook. Its grassroots development structures and approach requires dramatic improvement. Nevertheless, cross border competitions could expose Top league teams to a higher standard of Rugby, highlight the shortcomings of their structures and encourage better development.