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NRC Rnd 5: Brisbane City v Sydney Rays

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amirite

Chilla Wilson (44)
Have to say I have problems with this approach. Wells is hardly a giraffe and would struggle being a front line jumper in the lineout. Shades of the Pooper.

Yeah, I see what you mean but the starting locks for the Rays (given their injuries) aren't too tall either.

At this level where you might only have 8 'Super Rugby' level players you've got to get them all on.

Now Will Miller obviously doesn't currently play Super Rugby, but he's there abouts and you just can't have him on the pine. Neither can you have Alcock, Dempsey, or Wells (or Fardy if he ends up being around - not sure how that works).
 

Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
I am not especially comfortable with the notion of playing the best 8 players in the pack without regard to the physical aspects of each position's requirements, nor to the synergistic aspects of combinations.

While the players you've nominated might reasonably be regarded as the best back 5, I wouldn't personally like to see a locking pair of Alcock and Fardy, backed up by a back row of Dempsey, Miller and Wells. If all of those were available, I'd see a choice between Dempsey and Fardy at 6, and maybe between Alcock and Wells at 8. Otherwise I'd be looking for specialist locks for the second row.
 

amirite

Chilla Wilson (44)
I am not especially comfortable with the notion of playing the best 8 players in the pack without regard to the physical aspects of each position's requirements, nor to the synergistic aspects of combinations.

While the players you've nominated might reasonably be regarded as the best back 5, I wouldn't personally like to see a locking pair of Alcock and Fardy, backed up by a back row of Dempsey, Miller and Wells. If all of those were available, I'd see a choice between Dempsey and Fardy at 6, and maybe between Alcock and Wells at 8. Otherwise I'd be looking for specialist locks for the second row.


You wouldn't move Fardy to lock even in that situation? I mean, one of the current Rays starting locks is a 6 anyway (forced on them by injury).

Lets remember the NRC is a lower standard than test football and is also very fast. Losing some height/weight for some mobility is damn sensible.
 

Highlander35

Steve Williams (59)
I am not especially comfortable with the notion of playing the best 8 players in the pack without regard to the physical aspects of each position's requirements, nor to the synergistic aspects of combinations.

While the players you've nominated might reasonably be regarded as the best back 5, I wouldn't personally like to see a locking pair of Alcock and Fardy, backed up by a back row of Dempsey, Miller and Wells. If all of those were available, I'd see a choice between Dempsey and Fardy at 6, and maybe between Alcock and Wells at 8. Otherwise I'd be looking for specialist locks for the second row.
By and large agree.

Case in point, Lloyd's second try against you blokes this week.

3 on 3 on the outside. Openside v Openside, Wing v Wing, Inside back v Inside Back.

Key difference here is the mobility of Tupai v Butler. Obviously relative size of English and Johansson v Coleman and Robinson plays the part, but after English makes the initial break, both Tupai and Johansson outgassed Butler, meaning that Tupai can get the offload away to the support who can crash over the top of the cover defence.

Story repeated itself all over the ground. Big back of 5 of Carter, Enever, Staniforth, Butler and Noa beat up Jeffries, Cummins, Reid, Tupai and Fox at the set piece and making metres in tight.

But over the course of the game, the mobility of the backrow to support the backs created the early lead, and won it back when the game opened up in the second half.

In the absence of equally good players in all positions at high levels, there is a balance to be found between playing your best players "out of position" or playing lesser players.

4 locks and a number 8 can only work with exceptional players, the same way 3 opensides, a lock and a 4/5/6 hybrid would, absent those 5 exceptional players, compromising some absolute talent for adequate role cover is necessary.

Comprises like two opensides or a 4/5/6 at lock are much easier to justify on talent alone.
 

Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
Not too sure which side of the discussion you are taking HL. I was responding to a (I think tongue-in-cheek) suggestion that Tom Staniforth might go well at No 8 if he's one of the best players in the side.

I think your dissertation probably supports my case that it is better to have specialists in some spots than to run with the best player when he doesn't normally play that position. Tom is not normally a 6 and Butler is not normally a No 8, though both are probably in the best 5 or 6 backrowers in the club atm. Tom has been very strong at 6 but doesn't have the pace around the ground that a good No 6 should have. Butler similarly is a bit challenged for pace when playing 7 or 8, as you have quite adequately described above.

ATM the Vikings are short on specialist 6, 7 and 8s. Of the current crop, I'd stick with Jordan Smiler at 6 and he has greater pace around the ground than Staniforth or Butler. I am hopeful that a No 8 will come through from the JID comp, but I see the No 7 spot being a real weakness. It won't be fixed by playing a generalist backrower there. IMO we need to look to recruit a genuine No 7 to back up Alcock in 2017 Super Rugby.
 

Highlander35

Steve Williams (59)
I think I'm supporting you BR.

Assuming all things are on a relative scale, a competent but well balanced side should be able to exploit the weakness of a similar to slightly higher quality side that is unbalanced, unless those players are all exceptional at the corresponding level.

You guys were exploited by us by going "too big". A Fardy/Wells/Dempsey/Alcock/Miller group could be exploited by you guys for going "too small", particularly if you swapped Carter or Enever for Smiler.

As you say, Tom has been quite good at Blindside in the NRC, but a "back 5" of 2 from Carter/Arnold/Enever, Fardy, Alcock and Staniforth presents similar unbalanced issues, should you try and play him at 8 for the Brumbies.
 
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