NRC onwards and upwards

[WorkingClassRugger]

The selling point pf NRC was to give Shute shield playerss some form of Super Rugby opportunites and for coaches to get opportunities at the next level
Now it will be super rugby and Fringe super rugby playsrs playing coached by super rugby contracted coaches.
Extended super rugby season for just the Aust Super Franchises

The current Super Rugby squads run something like 30 deep. Up to 35 if you count in the EPS guys. Which for the sake of this we will. On average come Wallaby duty you're looking at around 10 (usually a few more) of that number being called up to that squad full time. So the remaining number of players available to featured in either one of these two teams. Now. You'd imagine that they'd also run squads of 30 per team.

So assuming those numbers stay true. Only around 25 of the prospective 60 positions will be filled by Tahs contracted players. There's is still another 35 positions to be filled.

There's still a substantial degree of opportunity for Shute players to look toward higher honours. It just becomes more competitive to get there. Not a bad thing. We have to remember that player opportunity is only part of a the larger scheme behind the NRC. It's also talent id and development. Meaning you want your professionals playing against guys who are the absolute best clubland have to offer.

Yes, we would lose a number of slots in moving toward this but also work toward making competition for those spots more intense. Which isn't a terrible thing. Well, in my mind it isn't.

 

[Micheal]

The selling point pf NRC was to give Shute shield playerss some form of Super Rugby opportunites and for coaches to get opportunities at the next level
Now it will be super rugby and Fringe super rugby playsrs playing coached by super rugby contracted coaches.
Extended super rugby season for just the Aust Super Franchises

Well, um, no.

The 2017 squad for the Tahs was 38 people (or thereabouts according to Wikipedia), including short-term contracts and EPS contracts.

Of those players: Kepu, Robertson, Hanigan, Dempsey, Hooper, Phipps, Foley and Folau went on Wallaby duty. =8

Latu, Sandell, Hegarty, Wilkin, Ta'avao and Simone were injured. =6

Mumm retired. Skelton, Horne and Deegan went overseas. Horwitz went to the Rebels, Lucas went to the Brumbies. Reece Robinson went to League. Jones went to the 7s. =8.

In total, that is 22 players.

That leaves 16 players available for selection in the NRC, or eight per team within the future format.

Given a squad of 23 players, this represents 34.8% of the total match day team.

Assuming that both assistant coaches at the Tahs take up NRC coaching gigs, that also gives 2-3 Shute Shield coaches positions as Assistant Coaches at each side.

It's almost as if 66.6% of the coaching team and playing group being sourced from the Shute Shield might represent some sort of pathway?

Let's not forget either that the NRC isn't solely focused on NSW and the Shute "Look at me!" Shield.

 

[Micheal]

The current Super Rugby squads run something like 30 deep. Up to 35 if you count in the EPS guys. Which for the sake of this we will. On average come Wallaby duty you're looking at around 10 (usually a few more) of that number being called up to that squad full time. So the remaining number of players available to featured in either one of these two teams. Now. You'd imagine that they'd also run squads of 30 per team.

Beat me to it!

 

[Shadow]

Well, um, no.

The 2017 squad for the Tahs was 38 people (or thereabouts according to Wikipedia), including short-term contracts and EPS contracts.

Of those players: Kepu, Robertson, Hanigan, Dempsey, Hooper, Phipps, Foley and Folau went on Wallaby duty. =8

Latu, Sandell, Hegarty, Wilkin, Ta'avao and Simone were injured. =6

Mumm retired. Skelton, Horne and Deegan went overseas. Horwitz went to the Rebels, Lucas went to the Brumbies. Reece Robinson went to League. Jones went to the 7s. =8.

In total, that is 22 players.

That leaves 16 players available for selection in the NRC, or eight per team within the future format.

Given a squad of 23 players, this represents 34.8% of the total match day team.

Assuming that both assistant coaches at the Tahs take up NRC coaching gigs, that also gives 2-3 Shute Shield coaches positions as Assistant Coaches at each side.

It's almost as if 66.6% of the coaching team and playing group being sourced from the Shute Shield might represent some sort of pathway?

Let's not forget either that the NRC isn't solely focused on NSW and the Shute "Look at me!" Shield.

 

[Shadow]

Figures can tell what ever story you want them to say
If there were 2 teams this year and Latu at hooker was available then Brandon Amosa is not a starting player and get some minutes back end of the game
Lets say Foley is not a Wallaby then Taylor is a bit player at 10.
I just think the NRC was put in for a reason and now the goal posts for that reason has shifted.

 

[Slim 293]

I just think the NRC was put in for a reason and now the goal posts for that reason has shifted.

That's simply not true...........

 

[TOCC]

Figures can tell what ever story you want them to say
If there were 2 teams this year and Latu at hooker was available then Brandon Amosa is not a starting player and get some minutes back end of the game
Lets say Foley is not a Wallaby then Taylor is a bit player at 10.
I just think the NRC was put in for a reason and now the goal posts for that reason has shifted.

I don't quite understand the analogy, Latu wasn't available and Foley is a wallaby? Out of the Waratahs starting XV from 2017, how many of those actually played each week in the NRC? I would hazard of guess that less then 5 played consistently in the NRC, with the other 10 either out injured or Wallabies. Sydney teams have lacked in competitiveness for a variety of reasons, the spreading of talent to thin being one of those, however the other factor which tends to be overlooked for 2017 is that the Shute Shield shifted their season which meant the NSW based NRC teams had no time together before the season.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Spot on - never let it be forgotten how the intransigent attitude of the SS towards the start of the NRC has to all appearances detrimentally impacted the Sydney based teams in the NRC. Probably won't be any different in future years with or without the Waratahs linking with the NRC sides.

 

[TOCC]

I've proposed this before..

But Australia and New Zealand should make an agreement to play one team from Fiji, Tonga and Samoa once each year between Rugby World Cups, over a 4 year cycle Australia would play at least all the teams once assisting in their exposure and development.

When was the last time the Wallabies played Tonga? I think the last game against Samoa was in 2011, Wallabies obviously played Fiji last year but prior to that it was a decent spell as well.

England vs Tonga RLWC

 

[Clarence]

The problem is Tonga can't really compete with NZ and the like in Union the way they can in League. That is especially considering some major stars left NZ this year to play for Tonga and Samoa.

That's what happens when you have incredibly loose international eligibility laws I guess.

 

[Silverado]

The problem is Tonga can't really compete with NZ and the like in Union the way they can in League. That is especially considering some major stars left NZ this year to play for Tonga and Samoa.

That's what happens when you have incredibly loose international eligibility laws I guess.

Also Fifita from Australia played for Tonga. Could be taken an incredibly loose or flexible. Tongan Thor plays off the bench for Wallabies 3 days after becoming eligible and now ineligible for Tonga whether he gets picked or not. It's not helping the region when PI players elect to represent ABs and Wallabies. I don't like the idea of changing allegiance willy nilly, but wouldn't mind seeing players released to play for their country of heritage if they don't get selected for All lacks or Wallabies


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[Clarence]

Combined Pacific Islands in the Rugby Championship please

(I'm glad these forums don't have downvotes)

 

[Highlander35]

I think that we're reaching the point where changing international eligibility needs to be a thing. The key problem is figuring out how to make sure:

a) It doesn't make a mockery of changing nations multiple times at potentially short notice, just because you weren't selected in a better team.

b) It maximises the strengths of all existing Rugby Nations

c) Is not used to exploit the PIs, or any other professionally lacking nation of players.


I've been playing with the wording, and for mine I think something like this could work.

Regulation X.xx.X.Y: Change of International Representation

A player has the ability to change their international representative side once in their career. After an International Stand Down period of 24 months, in which a player cannot be involved in the Full International 15s, Full International 7s, or Second Nominated Representative side, a player can inform World Rugby of this change in eligibility through submission of Form A.B.C by his new representative side to World Rugby and his original Representative side.

This 24 month stand down period must be served independently of any 5 year residency qualification period if applicable.

A player moving to a nation with a higher p-Index (as detailed below) must have been eligible for the Nation at the time he was cap-tied by his initial representative side.

Exemptions to these regulations may be applied for and granted on a case by case basis by World Rugby solely on the basis of:

i) Participation in an Olympic or Olympic Qualifying Squad
ii) Cumulative Residency exceeding 10 years
iii) Movement to a PX index Nation outside the 6 months immediately preceding a World Cup

P-Index (as of initial date):
P1: Argentina, Australia, England, France, Ireland, Italy, New Zealand, Scotland, South Africa, Wales

P2: Canada, Fiji, Georgia, Japan, Romania, Russia, Samoa, Tonga, USA

PX: All remaining Nations recognized by World Rugby

 

[Clarence]

I like it.

I predict that a system like this would dramatically improve the P.I. Union teams more so than the P.I. League purely due to the number of professional New Zealand players.

Now that I think about it... is this whole system going to have any real affect on any part of the world other than Oceania?

 

[Silverado]

I like it.

I predict that a system like this would dramatically improve the P.I. Union teams more so than the P.I. League purely due to the number of professional New Zealand players.

Now that I think about it. is this whole system going to have any real affect on any part of the world other than Oceania?

Exactly, you're right about the loose laws in RL, where Fifita said he'd play for Tonga in the World Cup then change his allegiance to Australia if picked in the next test. There needs more flexability though to stop Pi players being stockpiled elsewhere. Highlander has a good model to give these PI sides that have been going backwards st the rate of knots since professionalism, and the laws that exist are more detrimental to them than anywhere else


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[Highlander35]

Two potential issues with the above wording (at least for mine) are this:

1) P-Index doesn't account for nations like Spain (who's Womens side far exceeds the Men's in relative terms) and Kenya (same situation but 7s over 15s)

2) It may have the opposite effect than desired: e.g. a Nemani Nadolo leaves Australia and represents Fiji and then after signing for Crusaders and showing off in Super Rugby is asked to step down and play for the Wallabies by the ARU/RA.

But I'm not sure how to account for those without needlessly complicating it, or creating more and more potentially unfair consequences.

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[Wilson]

Two potential issues with the above wording (at least for mine) are this

I'd like to see all eligibility locked at time of first cap, not just for upward movement. I don't like the idea that a low ranked but rich nation like Germany or China might decide to improve by buying a bunch of already capped pacific islanders through residency. Doesn't stop anyone from buying the uncapped players but that's nothing new.

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[Highlander35]

I'd like to see all eligibility locked at time of first cap, not just for upward movement. I don't like the idea that a low ranked but rich nation like Germany or China might decide to improve by buying a bunch of already capped pacific islanders through residency. Doesn't stop anyone from buying the uncapped players but that's nothing new.

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Ideally the process and P-Index would be reviewed after every World Cup, so that new levels can be added and teams can change from one tier to another.


And I think 7 years is long enough of a commitment to let anyone seriously wants to do represent a team they had no previous connection to. Even timed to perfection, you miss a minimum of one world cup, and spend about half your career unable to play any international Rugby, save perhaps a Barbarians game or two if you're good enough.

 

[Sully]

Shouldn't this conversation be in the world rugby thread?

 

[TOCC]

John Stewart from the Fijian Drua is in the Fiji 7's team which beat the Aussies at the Dubai 7's