NRC onwards and upwards

[Dave Beat]

I'd love increasing numbers and increasing teams rather than reducing them.

In this climate where we are unfortunately declining because of commitments outside of rugby (simple time pressure’s), and loosing players overseas.

I feel and I could be wrong, but some of these suggestions may have a detrimental impact, which concerns me.

A couple of years back in the Shute half way through, top 6 and bottom 6 separated, and played it other, and then a top 8 final. It had its pluses and minuses for different reasons – but could that model be built on / modified to involve other states?

I’m not sure that the NRC (In fact I know) isn’t going to stop a player leaving for contracts off shore.
So what is its purpose?
How can we use it to increase numbers?
How can we use it to give rugby a better profile?

Just got to be careful when playing with something in the food chain – could have detrimental effects elsewhere. I’d much rather have more players playing longer thus pushing players up.

PS - my comment above, just extend the Shute Sheild was because I enjoy rugby, not to debate NRC v SS. Right now I'm concerned about the impact the NRC is having.

 

[TOCC]

Why is it that Shute Shield types only want the Shute Shield extended now that it overlaps with another competition. For decades the SS has had the option of extending the completion and by mutual decision it was decided to keep it at the length it currently is. It's like the child who doesn't want the toy until another kid starts playing with it.

QPR happily adjusted the season, I don't see why it's an issue in Sydney.. If SS fans are intent on extending the season then what is to stop the Shute Shield from starting earlier?




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[Dave Beat]

Why is it that Shute Shield types only want the Shute Shield extended now that it overlaps with another competition. For decades the SS has had the option of extending the completion and by mutual decision it was decided to keep it at the length it currently is. It's like the child who doesn't want the toy until another kid starts playing with it.

QPR happily adjusted the season, I don't see why it's an issue in Sydney.. If SS fans are intent on extending the season then what is to stop the Shute Shield from starting earlier?




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My last post was about concerns in declining numbers and that the current model of the NRC maybe showing up the process. We've already had our first reduction in teams playing.

Also concerned that the 2 strongest states with regards to registered players and how they place in the soup.

I find that odd.

 

[Pfitzy]

Rationalise the Shute Shield. Merge or cut teams till you've got 7 left, then add a Canberra/ACTRU/SIRU/JID Cup/Whatever you want to call it side based out of Canberra.

I remember the last time a Canberra side was allowed into Shute Shield - the big boys in Sydney didn't like getting their arses handed to them

 

[Slim 293]

Unforunately, there exists in Australian rugby a pathological hatred of SS and similar competitions by a wide range of people. One of the biggest problems we face is petty parochialism and this is yet another example of it. Sad but true.

 

[Quick Hands]

I'm all for clubs like Sydney Uni going it alone in a national comp at this point. It will either sink or swim, but mostly swim at the expense of nearly everyone else.

Because that's exactly what they want.

Although the Sydney Uni "go it alone" project seems to have sunk.

 

[Quick Hands]

12 clubs, all running 4 Grades and 3 Colts is far too much for the latter, and the closed nature of the competition, particularly with the dearth in ability between the top 5 or and the bottom 3 or so, at least for mine is bordering on insulting to junior and suburban clubs who form the genuine grassroots.

Although at least some junior clubs - in some areas most, in other areas perhaps less - identify with their SS club. Some junior clubs are attached to a subbies club and identify with that. Some junior clubs identify with both. So it's not as clear cut as you may think.

For example Newport have a strong subbies club, but are also the strongest junior club in Warringah and identify strongly with Warringah at junior and senior level. Lindfield are in a similar situation with Gordon. Forest another, although they aren't that strongly linked with Manly at senior level, but certainly are at junior level.

If your point is that SS clubs aren't perfect and are in some cases are part of the problem, then it's a fair point. I'd point out though that least some SS clubs are doing things pretty well and are involved in grass roots development and do promote the code to the wider community.

I don't think that comments like "genuine grass roots" and trying to pit one part of the game against another are particularly helpful at all. You may not have noticed that there are less and less people involved in the game as players and spectators at all levels of the game - stirring up internal resentments and conflicts within are in no one's best interests.

 

[Quick Hands]

Why is it that Shute Shield types only want the Shute Shield extended now that it overlaps with another competition. For decades the SS has had the option of extending the completion and by mutual decision it was decided to keep it at the length it currently is. It's like the child who doesn't want the toy until another kid starts playing with it.

QPR happily adjusted the season, I don't see why it's an issue in Sydney.. If SS fans are intent on extending the season then what is to stop the Shute Shield from starting earlier?




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To be fair, that's not strictly true. SS is now 18 rounds, in the past it has been 22 rounds (in the 00s). I'm not sure when and why the 4 rounds were cut back - possibly because of NRC or possibly before that. That said, with the NRC now in place I'm not sure that it's practical to revert to 22 rounds

 

[Highlander35]

Perhaps I'm projecting my own experiences onto this too much. My own junior club was Whitecraigs, the Senior side is middle of the road, 3rd division sort of team. Little bit nicer grounds than your average club at that level, due to geography and demographic. Warriors and domestic training squads occasionally came down to run around if their regular pitches were out of order.

When I look at that, and then at premier division clubs like Melrose and Gala, and even the Hawks, there's a fundamental disconnect in attitudes, facilities, assistance from the SRU, and in my mind, that's where the grassroots/Elite nature comes into it. The closed nature of the competition seems to have turned the Shield into a behemoth of select clubs who are allowed to try and accomplish both, rather than allowing every club to choose what it wants to be.

Regardless, I don't really wish the players, clubs or supporters any ill will. Just slight frustration at the system in general perhaps. I understand that National leagues and Promo-Rel don't really work when you're working on continental levels of geography. But, perhaps against expectations, you do find that it quite clearly keeps the "grassroots" or community clubs separate from those seeking to be elite. Again, looking at the English system, a number of clubs, London Scottish the biggest in my mind, run both Elite (Championship level) and Community (Nat 3 or South 1 or something) clubs, that share an identity.

 

[TOCC]

Well the players love it and see it as a great achievement to be selected

https://qldtongarugby.com/2016/04/25/the-selfless-soldier-within-serves-tupou-well/

 

[Propsperspective]

My two cents, still think the best club teams around the country should make up the NRC to give it some more soul.

 

[red son]

My two cents, still think the best club teams around the country should make up the NRC to give it some more soul.

Agree. Or maybe leave the rest untouched but have the top two or three clubs from Sydney go in after the Shute Shield is over. Unless Qld would want to do the same. Could possibly allow such clubs to top up with players from clubs that didn't make it.

 

[Slim 293]

My two cents, still think the best club teams around the country should make up the NRC to give it some more soul.

That doesn't make for a legitimate third tier competition.......

 

[Highlander35]

If you look at the Super 6 and Super 10 tournaments, the Kiwis were originally putting up the 3 or 4 strongest NPC sides. They quickly realised that was not conducive to proper development and switched from Provincial to regional before the comp was even formalised as the Super 12.

 

[red son]

Maybe what needs to happen is that the NRC becomes a stand alone pro/semi-pro club comp that runs for the full season not for just a few weeks to fill in.
Would create a Problem for the Brisbane and Sydney comps but remember that in the first year there was talk that existing clubs could be added sometime in the future once the comp "matured".
I took out "membership" of the Stars for the last two years but believed it would have been better to have a side like the "Fleet" in the old ARC. There needs to be an eastern & southern suburbs side in Sydney. The proposed new Eagles grouping playing only one game in Sydney and therefore one less in NSW Country seems unlikely to get a following in the big smoke.
Teams really need to have one home ground. If need be move it to another location the next year but for a year play it out of one venue. IMO that goes for all the teams.

 

[Quick Hands]

The Sydney Fleet was indeed a logical grouping, but unfortunately petty parochialism intruded and the clubs couldn't wait to get out of it. This time around, when the NRC started, Sydney Uni wanted to go it alone but that didn't meet the criteria, so they formed a sham alliance with Balmain. Predictably it failed.

Easts and Randwick couldn't or wouldn't work together - reports were that Randwick wouldn't agree to anything other than playing in green jerseys at Coogee Oval.

IMO the intransigence of SU, Easts and Randwick has not benefited themselves or rugby in their area - sad that there have been two wasted years that could have been spent building.

The northern clubs did the right thing and formed the Northern Rays - it's been a slow start, but I reckon it's built on a strong foundation of co-operation and long term it will end up a strong club. It's the model which should have been followed elsewhere.

The Rams were another complicated arrangement with Eastwood not participating.

If NSW Country are going to be in the NRC, then they should be playing at a location which is affiliated with NSW Country.

 

[red son]

The Sydney Fleet was indeed a logical grouping, but unfortunately petty parochialism intruded and the clubs couldn't wait to get out of it. This time around, when the NRC started, Sydney Uni wanted to go it alone but that didn't meet the criteria, so they formed a sham alliance with Balmain. Predictably it failed.

Can only agree with what you have said.
If the proposed name change for the Rays is correct to "Sydney Rays" plus the addition of Southern Districts they will become the "Sydney " team with the Rams the "West Sydney" one.

So it seems the NSW teams will end up being Country, Sydney and West Sydney.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

If you look at the Super 6 and Super 10 tournaments, the Kiwis were originally putting up the 3 or 4 strongest NPC sides. They quickly realised that was not conducive to proper development and switched from Provincial to regional before the comp was even formalised as the Super 12.

Last-ever S10 was in 1995 & NZ teams were Auckland, Canterbury, North Harbour & Otago, being the 1994 NPC semi finalists. First-ever S12 was in 1996 & NZ teams were Auckland Blues, Waikato Chiefs (which IIRC included North Harbour), Wellington Hurricanes, Canterbury Crusaders & Otago Highlanders. At no time did NZ field regional teams in any of the predecessors to S12.

 

[Highlander35]

That's my bad. Misread or misinterpreted something somewhere then, thought they basically ran the 4 Super Sides, then added the Chiefs for Super 12.

My point, somewhat still sort of stands. Talented individuals shouldn't be excluded. I mean, a Harlequins side would still make up most of the Rising if you were just going on Dewar Shield players, but there's still a buttload outside you'd pick. It'd probably be even more extreme with Sydney sides, like if Uni, Randwick, Manly and Easts all qualified, you'd still have a buttload from Warringah, Soithern Districts and Eastwood at the very least who'd be missing out on development and exposure.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The Sydney Stars (2015) version included a fair few non Sydney Uni players.
Harry JONES - Warringah
Andrew ROBINSON - Tuggeranong Vikings
Jordon McGREGOR - Southern Districts
Theo STRANG - Scots College (Didn't play due to HSC and Aust Schoolboy duties)
Andrew LEOTA - Southern Districts
Ofa FINAU - Balmain
John HALE - Balmain
Tiploma KAVEINGA - Balmain
James HANSON - Reds/Rebels
Senio TOLEOFOA - Aust U20 2013, Samoa U20 2012, Penrith Shute Shield 2014, Rams NRC 2014, Tuggeranong Vikings 2015
Kirwan SANDAY - Fiji U20 2011, Reds A 2014, Easts (Brisbane) 2015
Jordan TUAPOU - Aust Schoolboy Capt 2009, Aust 7's 2011-2014, Sunnybank 2015
Todd PEARCE - 2015 Eastwood Shute Shield, 2007 ARC Fleet, Melrose (SCO) 2013
Liam McGRATH - Tuggeranong Vikings 2015 (1st Grade Coaches Award), Gungahlin Eagles Club Captain - 2014
Michael KOVACIC - 2015 Eastwood Shute Shield