NRC onwards and upwards

[Brumby Runner]

You provide carrot and stick to get people on board. The four clubs who banded together to form the Rays (and tipped in $30k each IIRC) were basically sold out by ARU/RA who created the Country Eagles so that recalcitrant clubs who tried to sagotage the whole thing had a place for their players to go - and then rubbed everyone's nose in it to let them play some home games at Coogee Oval. (Country Eagles at Coogee Oval - yes you read it right)

If you want people involved you give them more reasons to say 'yes' than reasons to say 'no'. The implementation (and I use the term loosely) of the NRC has been abysmal. It's allowed those who opposed it to shaft those who were in favour.

Re Wales - think concept not the way it may or may not be being executed.

My recollection of the reasoning behind the creation of the NSW Country side was a disagreement between Sydney University and Randwick over which club would be the head honcho in any amalgamation of Eastern and Southern SS clubs. Rightr from the very beginning it has been SS clubs, including Eastwood's initial stance to not contribute towards the Rams amalgamation, that has undermined the NRC in Sydney.

 

[Quick Hands]

My recollection of the reasoning behind the creation of the NSW Country side was a disagreement between Sydney University and Randwick over which club would be the head honcho in any amalgamation of Eastern and Southern SS clubs.

Correct. Which is my point. The Eagles were never a country side, they were created to keep Randwick (and possibly Easts) happy, nothing more or less.

Rightr from the very beginning it has been SS clubs, including Eastwood's initial stance to not contribute towards the Rams amalgamation, that has undermined the NRC in Sydney.

Well, you've named three SS clubs out of 11 (then it was 12) as having the initial stance against the NRC.

You'll find that the rest (with the possible exception of Easts) were all supportive and engaged with the concept. (Parramatta, Wests & Penrith with the Rams, Manly, Warringah, Norths and Gordon with the Rays and South became so fed up with the Randwick/SU b/s that they went with the Rams)

The biggest problem was that the ARU preferred to let the recalcitrants have their way by allowing Syd Uni have the Stars is a faux joint venture with Balmain and the creation of the Eagles to allow Randwick to walk on both sides of the street.

It was the ARU which allowed a few noisy opponents to sabotage things by giving in to their unreasonable demands. Randwick, SU and Eastwood should have been excluded from the semi-pro pathway when they didn't get on board (as I said at the time). Once their players were denied access to the NRC, you would have found that they would have either had to change their views or their players would have left.

So please, by all means criticise those clubs who weren't on board, but don't lump everyone in together because it is factually incorrect to do so.

 

[Quick Hands]

It still seems to me that QH's main point refers to the situation in Sydney only. And what he seems to be proposing is pretty much the original NRC structure, the one that was undermined by the Shute Shield clubs (or some of them). I cannot yet see that QH is proposing any change to the NRC setup in Qld (other than to rebrand the two teams, perhaps), ACT, Vic or WA.

Yes

 

[dru]

QH I don’t disagree with what you are saying, however ARU did not (by recollection) make any determination on how the teams proceeded. They put up the comp and asked for offers of interest. In Qld (again by recollection) none stood up so QRU stepped in and made their own NRC alignment to clubs. Seems to have worked adequately.

I completely understand that many SS clubs were integrally involved and should not be tarred with the anti-NRC tag, but at the same time things were VERY noisey in anti-ARU, anti-NRC retoric and this was often from the SRU. There was no public statements I can recall standing against this and NSWRU were silent. The fundamental problem lay in NSW where it continues.

Now solve this issue and NRC is far from being great. But perhaps links to clubs and tribalism may be the next thing to work on.

I don’t actually mind the idea of inter state club championship but priorities are required with money and effort and such a comp won’t meet some functions which have proven very useful to Australian pro rugby.

 

[Quick Hands]

QH I don’t disagree with what you are saying, however ARU did not (by recollection) make any determination on how the teams proceeded. They put up the comp and asked for offers of interest.

.

True, but the expression of interest from NSW Country was a joint venture with SARU playing some games in Adelaide IIRC. I'm reasonably sure that the Country Eagles was dreamt up by the ARU (could have been the NSWRU but IIRC they sat back and did nothing). The raison d'être for the Eagles was to give Randwick players somewhere to go - noting that early games were played at Coogee. Thus one of the principal saboteurs of the NRC were essentially given an all care, no responsiblity free pass.

 

[dru]

True, but the expression of interest from NSW Country was a joint venture with SARU playing some games in Adelaide IIRC. I'm reasonably sure that the Country Eagles was dreamt up by the ARU (could have been the NSWRU but IIRC they sat back and did nothing). The raison d'être for the Eagles was to give Randwick players somewhere to go - noting that early games were played at Coogee. Thus one of the principal saboteurs of the NRC were essentially given an all care, no responsiblity free pass.

We can all hope that things are handled better, much better, going forward. I quite liked the Stars btw and it did result in my attending a couple of Balmain games too though tbf I have not kept it up.

A change to interstate club championship as nothing more than appeasement to the SRU recalcitrants would be a poor step imo. Though there could, and should, be much more than this behind the planning.

I don’t even mind working focussed on the SRU in building toward a national pro or quasi pro comp, but an aweful lot would need to be done to expand from Sydney-centric to national interest. And a very obvious issue would need thinking through - the Shute Shield would have losers as well as winners. Visibility, metrics and the ability for sharp decision making would be required.

 

[Lindommer]

Right from the very beginning it has been SS clubs, including Eastwood's initial stance to not contribute towards the Rams amalgamation, that has undermined the NRC in Sydney.

And then the Woods went and bought the Rams (for a measly $20,000) in 2017 without consulting the Western Sydney Rams founding clubs (Parra, Penrith and WH) and proceeded to let it wither on the vine that year, and finally die in 2018.The Rams did some exceptional work in 2015 and 1016 with their involvement of the Pacific rep teams from Sydney, both men and women, resulting in some fabulous Pacifika days at Concord. There were no Pacific teams at all at Millner in 2017.

What a lot of fucking hypocrites they are.

 

[Braveheart81]

True, but the expression of interest from NSW Country was a joint venture with SARU playing some games in Adelaide IIRC. I'm reasonably sure that the Country Eagles was dreamt up by the ARU (could have been the NSWRU but IIRC they sat back and did nothing). The raison d'être for the Eagles was to give Randwick players somewhere to go - noting that early games were played at Coogee. Thus one of the principal saboteurs of the NRC were essentially given an all care, no responsiblity free pass.

There's never going to be a proper country team at that level because anyone from the country who is at that level is generally living in a capital city playing professional rugby or at the least Shute Shield/Premier Rugby.

I support the Eagles and think they've generally been good from the perspective of taking games around NSW country areas, engaging with those towns in the days leading up to the game etc. I have also appreciated being able to watch the occasional home game in Sydney over the years.

The NSW teams in the NRC have generally been a disaster due to initially being spread too thin, not having a working relationship between the Waratahs and the Shute Shield clubs running the teams and the Shute Shield being run right up until the start of the NRC season so their preparation was delayed. The reduction to two teams in 2018 is probably the best way to go and there was more collaboration with the Waratahs than ever before. If the NRC and that relationship continues it should hopefully be better moving forward.

 

[Jagman]

Between 2008 and 2013 you could read on the internet, almost every day, that Australia needed a national competition for its players to be more competitive. Well we've had five seasons of NRC and our Super Rugby teams have never been as poor as they have been in the past 3 seasons, nor the Wallabies last year. No evidence its making our players better players at all. Just saying.

 

[kiap]

Between 2008 and 2013 you could read on the internet, almost every day, that Australia needed a national competition for its players to be more competitive.

We still do.

You can argue the format and specific details of such a comp.

The purported alternative, however, is a lower standard.

Club Rugby in Australia is not good enough.

 

[Slim 293]

The question should be how much worse would Australian rugby be if the NRC wasn't implemented?

 

[Quick Hands]

Between 2008 and 2013 you could read on the internet, almost every day, that Australia needed a national competition for its players to be more competitive. Well we've had five seasons of NRC and our Super Rugby teams have never been as poor as they have been in the past 3 seasons, nor the Wallabies last year. No evidence its making our players better players at all. Just saying.

Too true Jagman.

Implemetation has been poor, but for many the NRC is part of a belief system so they simply can't believe that what you sy is true.

 

[kiap]

Implemetation has been poor, but for many the NRC is part of a belief system so they simply can't believe that what you sy is true.

Funny thing is though, QH, your proposal (in this here thread) is …

… NRC by another name

 

[Quick Hands]

We still do.

You can argue the format and specific details of such a comp.

The purported alternative, however, is a lower standard.

Club Rugby in Australia is not good enough.

The format and details are what is wrong.

I fail to see how the standard of Australian rugby could be any lower without NRC, in its current format. It has close to zero brand recognition amongst the rugby public and even less recognition in the wider Australian sporting community. If it disappeared tomorrow, nobody but a few rusted on tragics would even know it was gone and even fewer would miss it.

 

[Quick Hands]

Funny thing is though, QH, your proposal (in this here thread) is …

… NRC by another name

In another format, which makes all the difference. I always believe that it's better not to do something than to do it badly.

 

[kiap]

In another format, which makes all the difference.

'Twas a couple of name changes.

Get rid of the word "Country", slap it on the arse and you're done!

If it disappeared tomorrow, nobody but a few rusted on tragics would even know it was gone and even fewer would miss it.

That's rugby as a whole in Australia.

Outta mind, outta sight.

And becoming less visible year on year.

 

[Quick Hands]

A couple of name changes.

Get rid of the word "Country", slap it on the arse and you're done!

Not quite. I'd have it run all winter as a national competition and part of that means that it needs to be intergrated to the levels above and below. In fact, until the second part happens then the NRC concept is doomed.

If you want to run it in it's current timeslot, it's just like a tacked on afterthought. I'm not convinvced that in such a format that it does much for player development at all. As evidenced by the fact that a team from Suva completely dominated and by the general state of skill execution in the levels above.

But as you note, the whole of Australian rugby is an adminstrative and organisational mess and while that continues then it's expecting too much for anything positive to come out of RA.

 

[kiap]

Not quite. I'd have it run all winter as a national competition and part of that means that it needs to be intergrated to the levels above and below.

Yeah. I'm not against some of those ideas (which have been around a long time; I suspect you're not claiming the patent) and believe other rugby fans might also be interested.

A comp does need to be in that tier, however. It needs more than glorified park rugby.

 

[Braveheart81]

If you set the premise that it needs to run in that time of the year and can't cost a lot of money because there is no option that will make money then it is hard to come up with something a lot better.

The Mitre 10 Cup in NZ costs NZ Rugby money to run and is a much better comp than the NRC.

There is no magic bullet here.

 

[kiap]

^ Yup, show me da money. The Mitre 10 is objectively better and does run (somewhat) longer.

You've got to build up that kind of tournament. NZ have worked at it for decades.