NRC onwards and upwards

[kiap]

Thanks Reg - but that was his choice - he wasn't allocated.

Are you able to throw any light on the Wallabies allocations to the other teams as I hadn't seen this terminology used before and Beth writes for Rugby.com.au so you would thinks that she knowswhat's happening??

From her article yesterday:

In past years there has been a quota for Wallabies players at each NRC team but that does not apply anymore, with players and their respective state unions able to decide which team they want to be assigned.​

So, yeah, the term "allocation" – even though it is still being used, including in the article quoted – is really a bit of a misnomer.

There are no allotments as such. If an NRC team is in the doghouse (e.g. the Rays) and national players don't like the colour of that particular jersey … then that team is shit outta luck.

So in the NSW derby on Wednesday, you had an all-Test capped front row for the Country Eagles (plus Sekope Kepu on the bench) putting the cleaners through a Sydney Rays opposition of journeyman Tahs squaddies.

 

[sunnyboys]

anyone spot the recent comment on the back of the 'GPS on Fox' idea that RA and Fox are talking about scrapping the NRC?

suggested replacement would involve a truncated Shute/Hosp Cup followed by an Aust Club Champs made up of top 5 from both Shute and Hosp, and premiers from some other capital city comps.

 

[Bandar]

The only thing I've see of it is you saying it - nothing on the fox article.

 

[sunnyboys]

unfortunately my office has thrown out the papers from earlier in the week. it would have been in the Courier or Australian as i cant get past their paywalls so i read the hard copy.

 

[sunnyboys]

found it. The Australian - Wednesday Feb 20.

"Also under discussion at RA boardroom and Fox Sports levels is the NRC competition and whether it will be persevered with or whether RA should, after a slightly abridged Shute Shield and Hospitals Cup premierships, swap over to an Australian club championship-style contest in which the top five sides in Sydney and Brisbane and the competition premiers in other states compete.
A club championship would certainly solve one of the NRC's main problems, the lack of tribalism, but at the cost of creating "haves" and "have not" clubs in Sydney and Brisbane."

this is at the end of the article regarding GPS games on Fox.

 

[Bandar]

Unfortunately I don't pay for that one either. I see what they are thinking but believe you would lose the rest of the rugby community - who from outside of the lucky clubs especially for the other states who only have 1 representative would care about it. Also you lose the ability to have best players in the country playing if their club does not make the cut. At least they are thinking about the options available...

 

[Slim 293]

Yep, it’s a dumb idea.........

You lose supporters, and most importantly you lose more players.

 

[kiap]

Yep, it’s a dumb idea..

Yah. Unfortunately that won't rule out the idea being adopted

It's 7 teams replaced by … what … 14, 12?

10 + Tuggeranong + Newcastle maybe … in a return to the nineties with a twist?

Let's dilute the standard in favour of sectional self-interest

 

[Quick Hands]

Yep, it’s a dumb idea...

You lose supporters, .

How many supporters do the NRC franchises have?

I would have thought that they wouldn't have very many to lose. The parts of games that I have seen on TV have 3 men and a dog there.

 

[Quick Hands]

Let's dilute the standard in favour of sectional self-interest

That's one way of looking at it. Another way would be that the NRC hasn't worked and people are looking at options.

The NRC could have worked, but it's a complete shambles. I wouldn't spend your money propping it up.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Yah. Unfortunately that won't rule out the idea being adopted

It's 7 teams replaced by … what … 14, 12?

10 + Tuggeranong + Newcastle maybe … in a return to the nineties with a twist?

Let's dilute the standard in favour of sectional self-interest

Serious question. How competitive would the Champions of the Melbourne and Perth competition be is such a competition? I'm a fan of the NRC but it has been woefully under-resourced and importantly under-promoted in its life time.

If this is to occur I'd prefer it to take 4 from Sydney, 3 from Brisbane, 2 from Canberra and representative squad from both the Melbourne and Perth competitions and then potentially leave the door open for the winning region from the NSWCRU Championships.

 

[Braveheart81]

Serious question. How competitive would the Champions of the Melbourne and Perth competition be is such a competition? I'm a fan of the NRC but it has been woefully under-resourced and importantly under-promoted in its life time.

representative squad from both the Melbourne and Perth competitions

That team probably performs worse than a team which has played together all season. It's not like they would get a lot of build up.

There's probably some middle ground between the ill-fated ARC which cost a bomb, got better crowds but was unbelievably unsustainable and the NRC which has been cheap as chips but hasn't got the crowds. I think closer to the NRC is a better option though. I don't think you see the ROI on advertising NRC games outside of the rugby channels (socmed etc.).

 

[kiap]

The NRC could have worked, but it's a complete shambles.

The shambles is in NSW.

It has worked elsewhere, bearing in mind that it runs on micro-dollars.

I wouldn't spend your money propping it up.

Thing is … the clubs have no money to prop up this Hospishute Cup.

They've been crying (some more than others, but who's counting) about having none for 10 years.

 

[kiap]

Serious question. How competitive would the Champions of the Melbourne and Perth competition be is such a competition?

In my opinion, not especially.

Put it this way, their chances winning a cup would be low as they are now … UNLESS said champion clubs start getting beefed up and recruit higher-level players (from other local clubs, or interstate, or elsewhere) … At which point you've turned the local scene into a procession, wrecking the local comp.

By the way, this won't only apply to Melbourne and Perth. It will be haves and have nots in all city comps, even more than it is now - and this includes Sydney.

I reckon two Canberra teams would be too many. The club there with the cash (and we know who that is) would be perfectly fine, recruiting as needed. Number 2, I suspect not so much …

So you'll end up with de facto rep teams from those states, anyway … essentially Rising, Vikings or Spirit … even if not in name.

I'm a fan of the NRC but it has been woefully under-resourced and importantly under-promoted in its life time.

Indeed.

But if you go back to an even older model (that didn't have money) suddenly money, resources, and great promotion will appear.

If this is to occur I'd prefer it to take 4 from Sydney, 3 from Brisbane, 2 from Canberra and representative squad from both the Melbourne and Perth competitions and then potentially leave the door open for the winning region from the NSWCRU Championships.

12 teams

… is too many.

 

[Quick Hands]

The shambles is in NSW.

It has worked elsewhere, bearing in mind that it runs on micro-dollars.



Thing is … the clubs have no money to prop up this Hospishute Cup.

They've been crying (some more than others, but who's counting) about having none for 10 years.

NRC is propped up by Foxtel.

It's seems to have worked so well that a team based in Suva won it.

If the NRC was a horse, it would have been sent to the glue factory two years ago. In it's current form it's a nonsense.

In terms of some sort of replacement, those advocating it have to establish its viability. It's hard to imagine anyone could do a worse job of designing a competition than RA have done with the NRC - for example we have a NSW Country team full of players who live in Sydney, a Qld country team full of players who live in Brisbane and that's just for starters.

For the first few years when the Northern Rays were in there was a degree of local support here and it got great coverage in local papers and reasonable crowds. The players were all drawn from the 4 northern Sydney SS clubs and it was starting to get some sort of local identity, then bang two years ago players from the 4 northern Sydney clubs were spread throughout the different teams resulting in some loss of local interest and then in 2018 they became the Sydney Rays -= almost zero local coverage and almost zero local interest.

 

[kiap]

NRC is propped up by Foxtel.

Sort of. As in the case of Super Rugby, it's a loss-leader. The broadcaster put together a contra deal to cover less than twenty games plus meet some travel … and that's about it.

They just lop that amount off the top of their ARU deal.

It's a blocking move that ensures rugby union is pretty much locked up, other than minor level stuff on community TV or streaming. And of course the game has to actually PAY to put Shute on air.

I'm not knocking that, by the way - it's an option to get out there - but it puts rugby's position into perspective.

a NSW Country team full of players who live in Sydney, a Qld country team full of players who live in Brisbane and that's just for starters.

Qld Country has been relatively successful … the Eagles the best NSW team overall - such as that it is (moreso than the Rays, in any case).

But, hey, if a West Sydney team (or whatever) works better, then so be it. It didn't prove to be, but if does …Swap 'em.

For the first few years when the Northern Rays were in there was a degree of local support here and it got great coverage in local papers and reasonable crowds. The players were all drawn from the 4 northern Sydney SS clubs and it was starting to get some sort of local identity, then bang two years ago players from the 4 northern Sydney clubs were spread throughout the different teams resulting in some loss of local interest and then in 2018 they became the Sydney Rays -= almost zero local coverage and almost zero local interest.

I don't disagree with this paragraph.

In terms of the bolded, WHY was that? Who or what drove it?

 

[Strewthcobber]

Serious question. How competitive would the Champions of the Melbourne and Perth competition be is such a competition? I'm a fan of the NRC but it has been woefully under-resourced and importantly under-promoted in its life time.

If this is to occur I'd prefer it to take 4 from Sydney, 3 from Brisbane, 2 from Canberra and representative squad from both the Melbourne and Perth competitions and then potentially leave the door open for the winning region from the NSWCRU Championships.

You'd end up with a whole bunch (majority?) of your pro super non-Wallaby players sitting around getting paid to train while a perfectly good competition happens without them.

RA would be mad to set this up

(Edit, I meant the original not your proposal, which at least gets the force and rebels players involved)

 

[Quick Hands]

You'd end up with a whole bunch (majority?) of your pro super non-Wallaby players sitting around getting paid to train while a perfectly good competition happens without them.

RA would be mad to set this up

(Edit, I meant the original not your proposal, which at least gets the force and rebels players involved)

You forget that super rugby players from NSW and Qld are affiliated with clubs, so one would assume that they would turn out for those clubs in such a competition.

For example this week, Karmichael Hunt joined Gordon.

Which seems to knock out your main objection.

I always love the way that whenever anyone suggests anything on these threads, we get a procession of people telling us why it can't possibly work. If only all this energy could be devoted to try and find something which did work, but I guess I'm hoping for too much.

I'm not supporting any particular model, but my initial reaction is that the NRC in its current iteration is a basket case and that alternative proposals need to be evaluated before jumping to the standard G&GR line that it couldn't possibly work because RA didn't think of it.

 

[kiap]

For example this week, Karmichael Hunt joined Gordon.

Which seems to knock out your main objection.

What happens if Gordon don't make the cut?

All their players sit out?

Or do the better ones needing a shot at a Supe contract, see the light, junk Gordon and join Uni?

 

[Strewthcobber]

You forget that super rugby players from NSW and Qld are affiliated with clubs, so one would assume that they would turn out for those clubs in such a competition.

For example this week, Karmichael Hunt joined Gordon.

Which seems to knock out your main objection.

my main objection is that the pro players are distributed across all of the clubs, and we are only inviting some of the clubs to play on the comp.

So half the Tahs and Reds players, and most of the Brumbies and Rebs + Force, those not affiliated with the top 4, 2 and 1 teams wouldn't be part of the comp