Highlander35
Steve Williams (59)
Any increase in smackaroonis should be funneled back into paying the existing players, or pumped into promotion and advertising.
NRC Expansion
- Thread starter starkz
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T
TOCC
Guest
Agreed, any increase in broadcast rights or sponsorship should first be directed into increasing the pay levels of the current players to minimum wage before expansion is even considered.
Wilson
Phil Kearns (64)
Need to be careful with this, bringing a colts team on the road blows up the travel costs pretty quickly. As long as you use local sides it shouldn't be a problem though, and a smaller youth comp between the NSW sides (and possibly Canberra) could work.
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
I agree, there are 4 Sydney teams and one in ACT, two rounds would be eight games for 150 odd kids(with the odd injury), that's a pretty good start!
BaysideBird
Bill Watson (15)
I've been thinking about expansion for most of the season so far, and I think it should occur within the next two years. However I would expand to a maximum of only ten teams in the NRC with no exact club affiliations, only Super team affiliation (if needed a development competition could be added down the track.) So with 10 teams, each Super Rugby Franchise would have two NRC teams each with their 30 man roster split in two, with the players being allocated to each team. I think the Sydney teams have struggled this year due to having to rely on Shute Shield players as the Waratahs have been spread too thin or have been in the Wallabies setup, while Melbourne and Perth have thrived due to their Super teams not being spliced and diced.
So an example setup would be:
REDS: Brisbane City & Queensland Country
WARATAHS: Sydney City (South & Eastern Suburbs) & North Sydney (North Harbour & Central Coast)
BRUMBIES: Canberra & NSW Country
REBELS: Melbourne & Greater Sydney (Western Sydney)
FORCE: Perth & Central Country (Adelaide & Country WA)
So an example setup would be:
REDS: Brisbane City & Queensland Country
WARATAHS: Sydney City (South & Eastern Suburbs) & North Sydney (North Harbour & Central Coast)
BRUMBIES: Canberra & NSW Country
REBELS: Melbourne & Greater Sydney (Western Sydney)
FORCE: Perth & Central Country (Adelaide & Country WA)
kiap
Steve Williams (59)
That may be true. There's probably enough of a player base in Sydney, though, to narrow the gap with a year under the belt and a longer prep before next season.
One one level, the two NRC sides per Super team makes sense. But it's like drawing borders in the Middle East; if they're too artificial it's not going to work.
Central Country (Adelaide & Country WA) would just not be a goer.
Aligning the Rebels and Western Sydney? I doubt it.
Highlander35
Steve Williams (59)
Meh.
I mean, in theory it works.
But say Rebels do the Rising and the Stars. Does that mean that Phipps, Foley, Skelton, Betham and others can't play for the stars? Is that fair?
That would stink.
Right now I'd suggest perhaps inflating the Soup Cap, and making the allocations a lot earlier, before the test window, make the squads independent of Wallabies and LTIs.
I mean, in theory it works.
But say Rebels do the Rising and the Stars. Does that mean that Phipps, Foley, Skelton, Betham and others can't play for the stars? Is that fair?
That would stink.
Right now I'd suggest perhaps inflating the Soup Cap, and making the allocations a lot earlier, before the test window, make the squads independent of Wallabies and LTIs.
BaysideBird
Bill Watson (15)
Its just an example of how it COULD work. You can fiddle around with the teams as much as you like, but I think its still a good idea for two NRC teams per Super team. And the makeup of the rest of the squad would be local players. So for example if the Rebels did have Western Sydney, 15 players would from the Rebels in however the split is done. The rest of the players would then be taken from the player pool in that geographic location. So you get a mix of Super and Club players. I'm not saying that Sydney doesn't have the player capacity to take on as many teams as it does, its just that without players playing Super Rugby in an NRC team they would struggle against the likes of Perth and Melbourne as they are setup now. Also in my example I have disregarded EPS players, however if this was to go ahead I'm sure their would some consideration put into the status of them.
BaysideBird
Bill Watson (15)
Meh.
I mean, in theory it works.
But say Rebels do the Rising and the Stars. Does that mean that Phipps, Foley, Skelton, Betham and others can't play for the stars? Is that fair?
That would stink.
Right now I'd suggest perhaps inflating the Soup Cap, and making the allocations a lot earlier, before the test window, make the squads independent of Wallabies and LTIs.
I'm saying that the Stars shouldn't exist and that Sydney should be split in three independent of the clubs, much like the QRU is running their teams currently. However, one of the Sydney teams will have to be allocated to another Super team (In this case Greater Sydney's Super allocation is supplied by the Rebels.) So if Nick Phipps & Co want to play for Sydney City, which in my example is made up of the Eastern Suburbs up to around Leichhardt, they would most likely play for that team due to them being from that geographic location. However it would all depend on how their Super team allocates the players and if they were active Wallabies.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
No, no, no, no, no.
But seriously you raise some good points and to make it the most equitable competition possible they would be ideal. The only issue is the financial consideration.
Presently, teams from the states where the players play get first option on players unless they nominate elsewhere I believe. I get this logic because unless the player chooses to play elsewhere, they are playing in the city they live in, meaning there are no additional accommodation costs, etc. They also have Super Rugby contracts which need to be considered. Much like last year, the Rebels players are already training.
By dividing it up in a more equitable way it disrupts Super Rugby preparations, and means players with leases and mortgages need to find alternative accommodation for a 3 month period on top of this.
I think your comments have real merit, however I think the first thing we should be doing is prioritizing up, not down. This means rightly, Super Rugby is prioritized over NRC, but where this has fallen down is in some cases club rugby has been prioritized over NRC (Brisbane - I'm looking at you!), with some teams not coming together until the week of the first game as they didn't want to upset premier rugby preparations.
Once all issues like this coming from the bottom up are resolved, then perhaps team allocations should be looked at more closely.
But seriously you raise some good points and to make it the most equitable competition possible they would be ideal. The only issue is the financial consideration.
Presently, teams from the states where the players play get first option on players unless they nominate elsewhere I believe. I get this logic because unless the player chooses to play elsewhere, they are playing in the city they live in, meaning there are no additional accommodation costs, etc. They also have Super Rugby contracts which need to be considered. Much like last year, the Rebels players are already training.
By dividing it up in a more equitable way it disrupts Super Rugby preparations, and means players with leases and mortgages need to find alternative accommodation for a 3 month period on top of this.
I think your comments have real merit, however I think the first thing we should be doing is prioritizing up, not down. This means rightly, Super Rugby is prioritized over NRC, but where this has fallen down is in some cases club rugby has been prioritized over NRC (Brisbane - I'm looking at you!), with some teams not coming together until the week of the first game as they didn't want to upset premier rugby preparations.
Once all issues like this coming from the bottom up are resolved, then perhaps team allocations should be looked at more closely.
Pfitzy
Nathan Sharpe (72)
There should be no rules, just like there weren't with club rugby. Players establish themselves where they can, and get picked up where they can.
The Rebels/Rising have the advantage of keeping a core squad together, and so did the Force/Spirit and Brumbies/Vikings, excepting those players selected for national duty (which hurt the latter more then the other two). But over time this will even out as its not just NSW = Eagles/Rays/Stars/Rams.
There will be more player movement once people have time to organise themselves.
And as Melrose said after one game - the players who had smashed each other to bits in Shute Shield final the week before (Eastwood and Southern) were shattered going into round 1.
The Rebels/Rising have the advantage of keeping a core squad together, and so did the Force/Spirit and Brumbies/Vikings, excepting those players selected for national duty (which hurt the latter more then the other two). But over time this will even out as its not just NSW = Eagles/Rays/Stars/Rams.
There will be more player movement once people have time to organise themselves.
And as Melrose said after one game - the players who had smashed each other to bits in Shute Shield final the week before (Eastwood and Southern) were shattered going into round 1.
Rugbynutter39
Michael Lynagh (62)
Been thinking about this
Bigger picture I think would be timely for ARU to engage a consultancy to look at growth options in how to grow rugby's appeal, fan base and commercial side at school/junior, local, NRC, super rugby and wallaby level.
This includes how to provide right cross promotion and support for rugby at all levels.
For me NRC is the missing link but needs to be looked at in bigger picture and after this years trial now is time to do this review to understand how to build, improve it for years to come whilst ensuring consider who can benefits and develop other levels.
NRC now provides better pathway for club players to super rugby players....and for non wallaby super rugby players opportunity to show case their wares for spring tour selection and work / play with next rising club rugby stars which time for these players with super rugby experience would be huge.
Next few years around consolidating and building appeal of product to broadcasters and still lots of work to do there.
Clubs that seem to be ok and need to just build fan base are Rising, Spirit, Vikings (internal politics issues though), Brisbane City, Rams, North Harbour.
The question marks are over QLD and NSW Country sides, and Sydney Stars (and they are my team!).
Getting NRC out to country is very good as good market to grow rugby. So maybe short term is right model but challenge is how do you build a fan base playing in different regions.
Stars are basically Sydney Uni....strong club so could go it alone....with balmain money....but the gap in the Sydney market is the eastern suburb
rugby fans not catered for.
Is inner west and SU enough to build strong fan base...don't know....but moreso need to cater for eastern suburb rugby fans to support a team more affiiliated with eastern suburbs shute shield sides.
Expansion wise (years away - at least 5 - maybe 10) is like to see:
More conference style comp with 2 conferences and more teams to help develop and widen pathway / product
I could see NRC sides in strong regional centres e.g Newcastle side, Gold Coast side. North Qld side based out of say Townsville. But to be honest harder on commercials so not sure how can make country / regional sides work in NRC but important try to make them work as country / regional areas strong rugby nursery and fan base.
Could see a SA falcons side....maybe even a second WA side.....as seems to be stronger local rugby growth potential there....maybe a NRC side representing ES clubs (Easts, Randwick etc).....
But at the moment largely about consolidating existing structure and building its appeal before introducing new clubs with exception of lack of representation of sydney eastern suburb shute shield clubs.
I hope the ARU engage a wider review of rugby and growth opportunities as see rugby at crossroads in this country and need to set right platform now to not only defend but grow market share, fan appeal, development pathways and the brand.
Bigger picture I think would be timely for ARU to engage a consultancy to look at growth options in how to grow rugby's appeal, fan base and commercial side at school/junior, local, NRC, super rugby and wallaby level.
This includes how to provide right cross promotion and support for rugby at all levels.
For me NRC is the missing link but needs to be looked at in bigger picture and after this years trial now is time to do this review to understand how to build, improve it for years to come whilst ensuring consider who can benefits and develop other levels.
NRC now provides better pathway for club players to super rugby players....and for non wallaby super rugby players opportunity to show case their wares for spring tour selection and work / play with next rising club rugby stars which time for these players with super rugby experience would be huge.
Next few years around consolidating and building appeal of product to broadcasters and still lots of work to do there.
Clubs that seem to be ok and need to just build fan base are Rising, Spirit, Vikings (internal politics issues though), Brisbane City, Rams, North Harbour.
The question marks are over QLD and NSW Country sides, and Sydney Stars (and they are my team!).
Getting NRC out to country is very good as good market to grow rugby. So maybe short term is right model but challenge is how do you build a fan base playing in different regions.
Stars are basically Sydney Uni....strong club so could go it alone....with balmain money....but the gap in the Sydney market is the eastern suburb
rugby fans not catered for.
Is inner west and SU enough to build strong fan base...don't know....but moreso need to cater for eastern suburb rugby fans to support a team more affiiliated with eastern suburbs shute shield sides.
Expansion wise (years away - at least 5 - maybe 10) is like to see:
More conference style comp with 2 conferences and more teams to help develop and widen pathway / product
I could see NRC sides in strong regional centres e.g Newcastle side, Gold Coast side. North Qld side based out of say Townsville. But to be honest harder on commercials so not sure how can make country / regional sides work in NRC but important try to make them work as country / regional areas strong rugby nursery and fan base.
Could see a SA falcons side....maybe even a second WA side.....as seems to be stronger local rugby growth potential there....maybe a NRC side representing ES clubs (Easts, Randwick etc).....
But at the moment largely about consolidating existing structure and building its appeal before introducing new clubs with exception of lack of representation of sydney eastern suburb shute shield clubs.
I hope the ARU engage a wider review of rugby and growth opportunities as see rugby at crossroads in this country and need to set right platform now to not only defend but grow market share, fan appeal, development pathways and the brand.
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