NRC Expansion

[Jagman]

I think the stars will be fine. Uni produce more pro rugby players than any team in the world. Or so they say at least. Just twelve months ago Uni trotted out this team in the SS final:
Weeks (injured), Latu (injured), Ryan
Boidin(gone OS), Windon (injured)
Dennis (injured), Davidson (retired), McCalman (Spirit/Wallabies)
Phipps (Wallabies)
Foley (Wallabies)
Jeloudev (Aus sevens)
Carter (injured)
Inman (rising)
Mitchell (retired)
Kingston (injured)

Plus Skleton and Betham on the bench.

To me it also looks like more than other teams that they are trying to be from the Waratahs play book which is very difficult and takes time.


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[rugbywatch]

I personally think that expansion would ruin everything this competition is about. Having only 9 teams, makes competition for spots that much harder meaning a greater standard of play. I think a similar model to new Zealand's heartland championship would be a brilliant idea though.

It would give other club players in australia who are not quite up to NRC standard, the chance to show their worth in a higher level competition from premier grade. Squad members not picked for NRC teams also get dropped down to the "heartland championship".

 

[Train Without a Station]

Rugbywatch that's an excellent idea in theory. The problem in Australia is the tyranny of distance though.

Auckland to Invercargill, likely the longest trip in NZ is 1,600km. In Australia the shortest interstate trip is 925km from Brisbane to Sydney. At a lower level the cost becomes too great when you consider that the competition is played between 5 states with trips varying from 900km to 4,300km.

Club Rugby needs to be that next level in Australia. I'd like to see the competitions refined to be less than 10 teams (probably 8 ideally) though as this would improve the quality of these competitions.

 

[kiap]

Rugbywatch that's an excellent idea in theory. The problem in Australia is the tyranny of distance though.

I agree. Just consolidate around the NRC.

The premierships in Sydney, Brisbane and the other capital cities are already the 4th tier. The Subbies and Country comps in NSW and Qld are the amateur level below that. —Why put more resources into yet another tier with added interstate travel if it's still going to be another step down from the NRC?

Australia had a "Heartland" championship around 5-15 years ago for "reserve grade" provincial rep teams. That was the Australian Rugby Shield.

So the Perth Gold and Melbourne Axemen played in the ARS with local rep players from those cities. The rough descendents of those teams now would be the Spirit and (rebadged "Rebels") Rising in the ARC/NRC.

Who else? Qld Country & NSW Country - the original true-blue amateur rep teams still exist but their beefed-up "origin-style" plastic cousins are now in the NRC. The Canberrra Vikings went on to play in the ARC and are now in the NRC. You can see that it's all heading in the same direction.

The other ARS sides were from the SA,NT, and Tas. In the longer term, an Adelaide side might join the NRC (provided the financials stack up) but that's about it.

I reckon somewhere between 8 and 12 teams is the right number for the national semi-pro comp and at the moment the preference is at the lower end of that range.

The future possibilites would likely be in NSW/QLD or one from SA, but don't bother setting up another NRC-lite comp for those sides. They are in or out —IMO. And if they're out they stick to the 4th tier options already there.

 

[Train Without a Station]

If the NRC can strengthen and basically keep all the talent rugby loses to the NRL Under 20's (Which will be easier when that no longer exists) then moving to as many as 12 teams may be viable. But hopefully they wait on expansion until there are more very good players missing out on games, then there average players who shouldn't be getting games.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Rugbywatch that's an excellent idea in theory. The problem in Australia is the tyranny of distance though.

Auckland to Invercargill, likely the longest trip in NZ is 1,600km. In Australia the shortest interstate trip is 925km from Brisbane to Sydney. At a lower level the cost becomes too great when you consider that the competition is played between 5 states with trips varying from 900km to 4,300km.

Club Rugby needs to be that next level in Australia. I'd like to see the competitions refined to be less than 10 teams (probably 8 ideally) though as this would improve the quality of these competitions.

I certainly think the Shute Shield should look to going toward a two division set up of 8 teams per division. Could even work with 7 each.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I certainly think the Shute Shield should look to going toward a two division set up of 8 teams per division. Could even work with 7 each.

With promotion/relegation, or two divisions of equal status?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

With promotion/relegation, or two divisions of equal status?

I'd prefer it be promo/relegation with a Premiership and Championship levels. Say if you choose to go with two 7 team divisions you could take the top 7 from say next years SS as the Premiership division and the bottom 5 as the base of the Championship plus either one of the close by country Unions or ambitious sunnies clubs like Balmain.

 

[Pfitzy]

Right now, Subbies 1st Div is going to struggle to get 8 teams. Penrith and Gordon might have to drop to make the numbers up!

 

[TOCC]

Sydney Stars are barely cutting it at the NRC level, teams like this need to consolidate before there is any talk of expansion..

Also, Foxtel is still only broadcasting one game per week, so by expanding you are increasing the cost of running the competition but the income stream stays the same.

Thats like saying, Ford should boost car production to 50'000/year when they are only selling 10'000 of the 30'000 currently produced.

 

[emuarse]

I would truly like to see a South Australian team in the NRC, thus making the competition more national.
Drafting 2 players from each of the Super 15 sides as a core, then inviting some of the young talent not getting the nod into the NRC plus a few of their local lads.
Possibly offering bonus payments as an incentive to transfer there for the season.
If they had a team, then the fans would come.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

If the NRC can strengthen and basically keep all the talent rugby loses to the NRL Under 20's (Which will be easier when that no longer exists) then moving to as many as 12 teams may be viable. But hopefully they wait on expansion until there are more very good players missing out on games, then there average players who shouldn't be getting games.

Problem is that from 2017 the current U20 run in parallel with the NRL will likely be replaced with separate U21 comps run in parallel with the NSW & Queensland cups meaning they'll be scouting for more talent than they are now, not less.

Given the NSWRL & QRL will have more NRL money to throw around than what ARU can possibly put into NRC, I'd say consolidation is the only way of making sure the comp survives. I'd still relocate QC (Quade Cooper)-GC to the Logan-Ipswich corridor, though, preferably before Ipswich or South Brisbane gets an NRL team which is probably gonna also happen in 2017 (unless the Titans go completely belly-up & get moved first).

 

[Pfitzy]

Let's concentrate on getting through to 2016 for now.

The Rams have done well to get private equity involved in order for them to divorce themselves from potential club politicking, while still retaining a link to clubs through player management and the youth squad.

I don't think its reasonable - if we're expecting this to become semi-professional in a true sense - to expect clubs to manage both the JV setup and the club duties they'll have during the season.

We see this already with QRU basically overseeing Brisvegas and QLD Country. NSWRU can't oversee 4 entities as well as manage the rest of rugby down through , though with the impending privatisation of the Waratahs it could get interesting.

Certainly for all the state unions involved, there is a genuine financial interest in getting this comp solid - more money = more opportunity for grassroots development.

 

[Train Without a Station]

More money = more "professional" spots. NSWRU has the most to gain as they can see so many more potential Super Rugby players up close.

 

[Pfitzy]

Yes, but when you extend that logic: most of the non-NSW ventures have coaches who are assistants at their respective Super franchise, or very closely associated with it.

Those guys get to see not only how their blokes react, but how the opposition are faring, and put in a quiet word to the boss once they get back.

I'd be stunned if Jarome Mackenzie doesn't have at least a rookie contract by the time 2015 season starts. Kid is awesome at this level, which proves he's ready for the next step

 

[Train Without a Station]

Just due to the numbers, for the 3 smaller states, there is less players they will see tested.

Local players are important for bargain basement contracts. It's hard to relocate for $40k a year.

 

[Quick Hands]

Let's concentrate on getting through to 2016 for now.

Absolutely. We need at least another year with the same set up.

 

[Quick Hands]

L NSWRU can't oversee 4 entities as well as manage the rest of rugby down through

Fixed

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Be interested to see what economics of this comp is for nrc clubs to break even....

Low cost is why perfect to exploit SA market where league would struggle as economics of supporting NRL team too high....

But first got to get economics right for existing clubs....hence be interested to understand what breakeven is for clubs..

Interestingly crowds are about same if not slightly lower than ill fated ARC comp in 2007....difference was economics much worse as ARU paid ABC to televise games and propped it up...at least got Fox Sports on board paying $1m and clubs having to be self sustaining so better economic model.

I have absolutely loved all the NRC and watched or live streaming games shown and been to all Stars home games.....standard definitely improving and love the opportunity to see up and coming stars who could be future super rugby and wallabies in waiting...seen quite a few with potential there..

New laws are brilliant as makes for really exciting games....in great social atmosphere....just needs more time and marketing muscle to ensure long term survival and growth...

Some of teams maybe could be revamped but I see benefit of Stars, and Country Teams....so sit more on fence their...potential is there as don't underestimate how much of nursery country nsw and qld is for rugby players
while opportunity to tap inner west market huge IMO as convenient for greater catchment with strong uni support base

 

[Pfitzy]

In terms of expanding the available base instead of the actual team numbers: getting youth teams going, or having First Grade Colts sides play the curtain raiser, would be a good thing. Lets the NRC teams have a look at emerging talent, too.

Will be particularly helpful when NRC season starts encroaching upon the SS.