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Not another "Four More Years Boys"

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Cardiffblue

Jim Lenehan (48)
Would be nice to think so. However, PIs usually get one team through instead of getting pasted and many teams rested their full teams against 'minnows'

RWC needs to generate interest in minnow nations rahter than packing them off with best wishes after the group stages
 

grievous

Johnnie Wallace (23)
The problem is - why develop the PI nations? It sounds harsh (and probably bitter as they keep beating my team - Wales), but what advantage is in there for the IRB and really rugby long term - the Samoan captain called it when he was saying they should play Tier A sides, he pointed out that the IRB and co would have to fund them as they are only a small nation.

Now I would love these teams to do well, but when looked at for growth reasons are the PI sides really a worthwhile target? They dont have teh money to back themselves, dont have the support base to grow the game and dont have the industry to provide sponsorship opportunities. Compare that to teams like Georgia, Russia, USA, Canada and Japan who do have all these aspects, and a healthy growing base of fans who have an interest in rugby, and they should probably be the targets as they have people, money and real growth opportunities.

I would love the PIs to do well, so dont think this is me simply saying ignore them, but for the good of the long term growth of the game I am convinced we should be looking elsewhere.

Its quite simple, PI athletes are so entertaining and so much to our game. How could rugby be the same without them.
 
R

Rugby Nick

Guest
How would these second teir teams compare to a S15 team? If they are equal or better then why not play Australian S15 teams v Georgia, Japan, USA, Canada and Russia as trial games, these countries could have a 4-5 week tour down under and we could host some type of 2nd tier nations cup after the trials in the "gap" week between trials and the S15 proper.

This allows these nations to improve by playing against better competition, and maybe we play one test against the top touring team the following season as a reward. This could be an incentive to them to improve.

The Ospreys, without any international players, played russia as a RWC warm up for them, and won convincingly. Hell even the Dragons managed iirc. Given the standard of the Ospreys generally, never mind without their star players, I should imagine any S15 team would stuff them
 
R

Rugby Nick

Guest
How many PI players are playing around the world in different clubs and competitions? How many are playing for other countries in this world cup? Per capita, the pacific islands are probably the biggest contributor to rugby in terms of players and often, they produce the players that bums in seats around the world. From Jonah Lomu to the Tuilagi brothers to Tana Umaga to Digby Ioane to Jerry Collins to Reupeni Caucaunibuca.....these countries produce natural rugby excitement machines on a consistent basis. There has to be more to rugby than just making a dollar and acknowledging these countries' contribution by financially supporting them, necessary only because they are in essence 3rd world countries, should be a part of that.

Otherwise, you run the risk of losing or ruining something pretty special in the rugby community.

Paul Ackford wrote an interesting article showing that something like 20% of the players in the RWC were PI'ers. But also showing how many of teh samoan side werent actually samoans (cant remember, think it was samoans, though may have been all PIs), so it is an interesting mix.

Whilst I agree with your sentiments I would argue with this point.

There has to be more to rugby than just making a dollar and acknowledging these countries' contribution by financially supporting them, necessary only because they are in essence 3rd world countries, should be a part of that.

Sorry but rugby went pro, sentimentality is out of the window. Either these sides can survive and flourish in a professional environment or they cant, artificially propping them up not only doesnt help the game it hinders it. Money that could be used to bring the game on in countries that would then support themselves and eventually start giving back to the rugby world - so allowing further growth, would instead be used to allow the game to stagnate by artificially enhancing the prospects of a few countries we feel should be allowed to be 'there'.

Already these teams get the benefits of money from other countries, if indirectly, by clubs paying these players and getting them up to fitness and skill sets required. To then pump money in to allowing them to play a few tests vs the big boys that will cost the IRB money AND the host country money (the games are unlikely to be a sell out, and in the UK player access costs money through participation agreements) seems rather counter intuitive when we are talking about the growth of rugby around the globe.

Spending money to grow the game is 100% the right thing to do. Spending money to help out teams because we feel some sort of obligation to them when teh reality is all we are doing is artifically propping them up is simply harming the game.

I love teh attitude of the PI teams, their approach and love of rugby. But I dont think throwing money at them will do much good for the game
 
R

Rugby Nick

Guest
Well he has some points, the IRB are not providing a level playing field for all

but he is simply complaining about the problem, not actually coming up with solutions. I dont think I have seen one feasible solution to the problem as of yet, just a lot of people agreeing with him
 

grievous

Johnnie Wallace (23)
but he is simply complaining about the problem, not actually coming up with solutions. I dont think I have seen one feasible solution to the problem as of yet, just a lot of people agreeing with him

Playing schedules solution is bleeding obvious, its come up again and again in WCs, its bloody arrogant tier 2 and blow reams are treated like this. Tweet away I say.
 

Nusadan

Chilla Wilson (44)
Paul Ackford wrote an interesting article showing that something like 20% of the players in the RWC were PI'ers. But also showing how many of teh samoan side werent actually samoans (cant remember, think it was samoans, though may have been all PIs), so it is an interesting mix.

Whilst I agree with your sentiments I would argue with this point.



Sorry but rugby went pro, sentimentality is out of the window. Either these sides can survive and flourish in a professional environment or they cant, artificially propping them up not only doesnt help the game it hinders it. Money that could be used to bring the game on in countries that would then support themselves and eventually start giving back to the rugby world - so allowing further growth, would instead be used to allow the game to stagnate by artificially enhancing the prospects of a few countries we feel should be allowed to be 'there'.

Already these teams get the benefits of money from other countries, if indirectly, by clubs paying these players and getting them up to fitness and skill sets required. To then pump money in to allowing them to play a few tests vs the big boys that will cost the IRB money AND the host country money (the games are unlikely to be a sell out, and in the UK player access costs money through participation agreements) seems rather counter intuitive when we are talking about the growth of rugby around the globe.

Spending money to grow the game is 100% the right thing to do. Spending money to help out teams because we feel some sort of obligation to them when teh reality is all we are doing is artifically propping them up is simply harming the game.

I love teh attitude of the PI teams, their approach and love of rugby. But I dont think throwing money at them will do much good for the game

Not to mention the fact monies can be 'mishandled' by officials...look at the Fijians...they almost didn't go to the RWC.
 
R

Rugby Nick

Guest
Playing schedules solution is bleeding obvious, its come up again and again in WCs, its bloody arrogant tier 2 and blow reams are treated like this. Tweet away I say.

what is the bleeding obvious solution?
 

Cardiffblue

Jim Lenehan (48)
Some places give four year jail sentences for incitement to violence on internet.

Solution to schedules is to have four team groups so they can play on weekends. troube is like Nusadan says all comes down to TV scheduling and $$$s and there's no place for sentiment where cash is concerned
 
R

Rugby Nick

Guest
Some places give four year jail sentences for incitement to violence on internet.

Solution to schedules is to have four team groups so they can play on weekends. troube is like Nusadan says all comes down to TV scheduling and $$$s and there's no place for sentiment where cash is concerned

So the solution to make things fairer for the minnows is to have less minnows?
 

darkhorse

Darby Loudon (17)
Why not play a midweek game against Russia or Georgia? I know playing a club like Leinster would pay good cash, but I reckon the Russians would turn up in some decent numbers with a bit of promotion.
 

Nusadan

Chilla Wilson (44)
Why not play a midweek game against Russia or Georgia? I know playing a club like Leinster would pay good cash, but I reckon the Russians would turn up in some decent numbers with a bit of promotion.

Do something like what Socceroos, Ghana etc did with playing their 'home' matches in England against European opposition in international weeks...one can do the same with Russian or Georgian teams to play dirt trackers of touring teams in the UK/France midweek.
 
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