New Zealand vs Ireland

[Dam0]

Forgot to add that scrum penalty for wheeling was wrong. Directly resulted in loss.

Nah, that was a pretty clear penalty.

You are allowed to screw the scrum but what you are not allowed to do is have the back 5 simply walk around. In reffing terminology that is called a whip-wheel and is pretty easy to spot because the twist comes from behind the front rows, and tends to happen extremely fast. I thought it was pretty obvious and a good decision.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Yeah Owens explanation on that scrum was pretty clear I thought. Tough game tonight and Ireland really got into the collisions and disrupted Aaron Smith.

Loved how we set up for the two drop goals. The first one Weepu shanked the pass but nonetheless a good set up. Then the successful one was on the back of a good build up and Dan with 5 guys running at him nailed it.

 

[Kevin Tyrrell]

Nah, that was a pretty clear penalty.

You are allowed to screw the scrum but what you are not allowed to do is have the back 5 simply walk around. In reffing terminology that is called a whip-wheel and is pretty easy to spot because the twist comes from behind the front rows, and tends to happen extremely fast. I thought it was pretty obvious and a good decision.

Please forgive my my ignorance but isnt a whip wheel scrum where say a loosehead holds against his opponent while his tighthead pulls his opponent thus creating the turning movement?? If it is, then that isnt what happened in the final scrum of the game. Healy clearly pushes against Franks who duly crumbles while the Irish tighthead Ross is stationary and not retreating and pulling his opponent around. The momentum of the turning movement is because Healy has literally demolished the left hand side of the scrum and the All Black locks and flankers have given way. The speed of the wheel was very impressive but will say that it wasnt simply walking the scrum around, the Irish locks and flankers were travelling up the left hand with speed because the AB right side just folded completely behind Ben Franks who couldnt hold Healy off...thus the All Black left side was pushed back and around coherently with Mike Ross being the pivot about the movement. Nothing wrong with it as far as I could see. Did it happen at speed and was maybe dangerous? Possibly!! But only because the AB's retreated so fast. Conclusion...scrum reversal, reset and All Blacks lose the put in. If the referee had any doubt he should have reset...spoken to both sets of front rows and locks to keep bound and keep pushing through because the AB right side was clearly retreating at a rate of knots and not applying any pressure at all.

 

[Dai bando]

Please forgive my my ignorance but isnt a whip wheel scrum where say a loosehead holds against his opponent while his tighthead pulls his opponent thus creating the turning movement?? If it is, then that isnt what happened in the final scrum of the game. Healy clearly pushes against Franks who duly crumbles while the Irish tighthead Ross is stationary and not retreating and pulling his opponent around. The momentum of the turning movement is because Healy has literally demolished the left hand side of the scrum and the All Black locks and flankers have given way. The speed of the wheel was very impressive but will say that it wasnt simply walking the scrum around, the Irish locks and flankers were travelling up the left hand with speed because the AB right side just folded completely behind Ben Franks who couldnt hold Healy off.thus the All Black left side was pushed back and around coherently with Mike Ross being the pivot about the movement. Nothing wrong with it as far as I could see. Did it happen at speed and was maybe dangerous? Possibly!! But only because the AB's retreated so fast. Conclusion.scrum reversal, reset and All Blacks lose the put in. If the referee had any doubt he should have reset.spoken to both sets of front rows and locks to keep bound and keep pushing through because the AB right side was clearly retreating at a rate of knots and not applying any pressure at all.

I agree, no wheel the TH was completely fugged, Owens is a good ref but good refs get it wrong sometimes I feel for you Bardon Ireland were the better team on the day, circumstances determined you would lose, The best game of rugby I have seen in an age,
We should take heart a narrow lose for Ireland, a narrow los efor Wales also Englands fight back was impressive, no longer do we get a 50 point drubing, The gap is definately closing,

 

[Dan54]

Haven't heard the whip wheel term, but that wheel came from second row going sideways, not front row, but regardless Irish were a touch unlucky to lose. Thought the All Blacks showed experience by not panicing in last 10 minutes or so, just went about the business of setting up winning drop goal. All in all a real good close test, that I thoroughly enjoyed. If Irish take same attitude and playing style into Hamilton test, it could be another cracker, with either team winning it.

 

[teach]

A nail biter. But still pleasing to see, that as badly as the ABs played, they still won. The Irish may have "deserved" it more, but playing their hearts out was still not good enough. The better team on the day is the one that gets the win. All penalties or all well constructed tries. A win is a win.

 

[Dam0]

Please forgive my my ignorance but isnt a whip wheel scrum where say a loosehead holds against his opponent while his tighthead pulls his opponent thus creating the turning movement?? If it is, then that isnt what happened in the final scrum of the game. Healy clearly pushes against Franks who duly crumbles while the Irish tighthead Ross is stationary and not retreating and pulling his opponent around. The momentum of the turning movement is because Healy has literally demolished the left hand side of the scrum and the All Black locks and flankers have given way. The speed of the wheel was very impressive but will say that it wasnt simply walking the scrum around, the Irish locks and flankers were travelling up the left hand with speed because the AB right side just folded completely behind Ben Franks who couldnt hold Healy off.thus the All Black left side was pushed back and around coherently with Mike Ross being the pivot about the movement. Nothing wrong with it as far as I could see. Did it happen at speed and was maybe dangerous? Possibly!! But only because the AB's retreated so fast. Conclusion.scrum reversal, reset and All Blacks lose the put in. If the referee had any doubt he should have reset.spoken to both sets of front rows and locks to keep bound and keep pushing through because the AB right side was clearly retreating at a rate of knots and not applying any pressure at all.

When you see a replay of the incident, watch the Irish locks, they weren't pushing so much as walking around the scrum. That's what the penalty was for, and I thought that was what happened before NO blew it up.

 

[Scarfman]

On the scrum - it was a 50/50 call. Very very close to a legitimate 90 degrees, but maybe not quite. The biggest decision of the night, I reckon.

 

[Cardiffblue]

No. the biggest decision of the night was in the other game. Thought Ireland played so well. forced the NZ backs to look ordinary for long periods. Carter's positional kicking did them in. Other than than that they were so close to something quite miraculous

 

[Dam0]

Regardless of the result it has indicated to me that our forwards are not quite up to the standard they need to be. Obviously this is to be expected after the loss of Thorn and Kaino, and with McCaw off his game. I am not too worried because I think that our new boys, Cane, Retallic, Vito/Thomson will eventually grow into their positions, but they are clearly not quite there yet.

The Aussie pack is far from perfect also, but they are a lot better at getting tackle steals than us.

 

[Cardiffblue]

I will say that I am glad we never have to have Nigel as ref

 

[Tangawizi]

Sounds like quite a few in the crowd got a bit overexcited by the return of Test rugby to Chch.

http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/7117868/Police-disappointed-with-drunk-rugby-fans

 

[Spewn]

Nah, that was a pretty clear penalty.

You are allowed to screw the scrum but what you are not allowed to do is have the back 5 simply walk around. In reffing terminology that is called a whip-wheel and is pretty easy to spot because the twist comes from behind the front rows, and tends to happen extremely fast. I thought it was pretty obvious and a good decision.

I watched it again and I think the Irish pack drive straight through and as the AB pack struggles the wheel occurs. Before the wheel the Irish pack were dominant. Unlucky I would say. But anyway, great game.

 

[What2040]

Blacks very very lucky !!!!!!

 

[Newbie]

Takes me back to the 'House of Pain' in 1992. Fark we came close on that day as well! Frank Bunce and Inga the Winga carved us up on that occasion!

 

[SaderCheif]

Ali Williams out of the next test with a knee injury. A bit of a blessing.

 

[Country Kid]

Turning point...

Before the scrum was called the Irish were applying intense pressure on the ABs - and it seemed to be building towards a field goal.

The (screwed) scrum was a result of a knock on by the Irish front rower. The pass to the prop was itself an error - Ireland should have gone left from the ruck back towards the posts. When they went to the right (blind side) I thought no: wrong way, then it was no again - when the ball went to the prop.

The Irish lost golden opportunity in those few seconds before the scrum.

 

[It is what it is]

I think we may have seen the best of Richie.
He has been an outstanding player, albeit on the edge of the rules for many years, but the signs of his decline are there.
His straight line speed is obviously slower, but what's less obvious is how slowly he is getting up off the ground.
In his efforts to achieve the same contribution as previously, he's now having to play outside the rules more frequently and refs are catching him more often.
Age is only kind to a good bottle of wine.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I think we may have seen the best of Richie.
He has been an outstanding player, albeit on the edge of the rules for many years, but the signs of his decline are there.
His straight line speed is obviously slower, but what's less obvious is how slowly he is getting up off the ground.
In his efforts to achieve the same contribution as previously, he's now having to play outside the rules more frequently and refs are catching him more often.
Age is only kind to a good bottle of wine.

The King is dead. Long live the King.

Sir Richies performance last night under pressure and his on field reactions suggest that the Shark was jumped at RWC last year.

Having seen all the best 7's on this planet from NZRT, Eng, Ire, Wal, Saffer, Aus, Arg and FRA in recent weeks, I think it is time to corronate Sir Bam of Bam as the King of the Dark Arts of the 7th Chapter.

When you turn to some of the unnecessary off the ball sh*t like holding back, and kneeing opponents in the back to compensate for your relative lack of pace, and declining skills, (in addition to that noted above) such as we saw from Sir Richie last night then it is time to start planning your round of farewell and benefit appearances.

Like all cycles in nature, the leading young Prince at the time of the demise of the old king will be anointed the new king.

Arise King David the 7th.

 

[Gnostic]

I will say that I am glad we never have to have Nigel as ref

Why? I think he is up there with Joubert as the best in the world. The only plain error he made IMO was as I posted before the final scrum which was in no way a "walk around" as suggested by others, they were clearly dominant in that scrum and those immediately prior.

Apart from that I think he should have yellow carded McCaw for the deliberate knees to the back of the player and he failed to see an Irishman at the fourth or fifth ruck of the game bind to the head and neck of Thomson and twist him away from the ruck. Both examples of dangerous foul play that should have met with yellow if not red.

Apart from that he policed all other aspects of the match very well IMO and he communicates well with the players without being chatty or trying to be their best mate or overly officious.