New Zealand vs Australia - Bledisloe 2, 24th August 2013

[cyclopath]

A few thoughts.
1. I don't agree refereeing should not be discussed, especially if there seemed to be an overall poor performance.
2. I don't equate a poor performance, or a bad decision with bias, cheating or some arch motive by the ref to screw one team. These are 2 very different discussions. I do not believe refs are biased.
3. I completely endorse Lee Grant's comments that the hang-up with refereeing debate gloss over the real discussion about the shortcomings of the Wallabies, to a degree.
4. I have never been on the 'AB systematic chaeting' bandwagon, and I think the constant harping denigrates a great team, and makes the ones harping sound bitter and petty. Just my opinion.
5. The ABs just play bett rugby than us now, and for some time. Can we play that well? I see no reason we cannot, although we're a way off, but we have the core of players to do it. Some of them need some work though.

 

[mudskipper]

All I can say is the All Blacks had the same ref on the day as the Wallabies... neither team knows how a ref will call on the day... coaches can speculate but really players need to be more assertive in they play game time…

The truth is the Wallabies aren’t playing at the same level as the All Blacks… its work in progress, players just need the get more experience and lift… The truth is I saw very little that was different from Link than Deans other than some new lads getting a shot…

 

[Dan54]

Ok fellas a few thoughts on game that I had being there, I know it a bit late but didn't get home until last night.
1. I had impression that Lilo struggled a little with defence, the Wallaby defensive line seemed to get bent around his position.
2 The class of 9s in the world is poor if Genia is the best, in fact Smith gave the impression he could play better.
3 Liked what I saw of Scott Fardy, seemed to play well.
4 The Wallabies are attempting to play the style of rugby the ABs played 2-3 years back, so could be getting left behind.
5 Tom Taylor had a bloody good first up test (and his usual position is not 10)
6 I must admit I never got to nervous watching game as I never got feeling that Wallabies were going to win.

Ok,I will remind you these were rough impressions of game, I haven't watched it on TV as yet, so on closer inspection am prepared to correct myself or be corrected, as I go to rugby to enjoy whole game, and don't tend to concentrate on just a couple of players.

 

[PommyPowerhouse3]

Ok fellas a few thoughts on game that I had being there, I know it a bit late but didn't get home until last night.
1. I had impression that Lilo struggled a little with defence, the Wallaby defensive line seemed to get bent around his position.
2 The class of 9s in the world is poor if Genia is the best, in fact Smith gave the impression he could play better.
3 Liked what I saw of Scott Fardy, seemed to play well.
4 The Wallabies are attempting to play the style of rugby the ABs played 2-3 years back, so could be getting left behind.
5 Tom Taylor had a bloody good first up test (and his usual position is not 10)
6 I must admit I never got to nervous watching game as I never got feeling that Wallabies were going to win.

I agree with your points except for your first to points. I though that Lilo had a solid game considering who was running at him. I do agree his not devastating in defense but he gets the job done. Also, Genia is by far the best in the world and he proved that in by his performance in the first test, he just had an off game last test. I do agree with your 3rd point that Scott Fardy is a great player!

You will probably see these points when you watch the T.V coverage plus this is only my opinion

 

[Gurz]

RE Ref debate - these guys are not perfect we all know... ok we get it. But if the ABs roll the dice and play cynically and don't get carded I ask who is to blame?

It has to be the ref!

Who else has the ability / responsibility to call it how it is.

If TMO needs more power e.g. executive power over on-field ref - then so be it - but something has to change - you cant just accept unfair decisions that CLEARLY effect the outcome of a game.... Unless of course you have got no balls and accept getting screwed................

In early 2000s the Mitchell coached ABs were very forthright in pointing to the English 'cynical play' when England was dominating world rugby. So the wheel does turn... and will likely turn again.... hopefully sooner than later.

 

[Bullrush]

I agree with your points except for your first to points. I though that Lilo had a solid game considering who was running at him. I do agree his not devastating in defense but he gets the job done. Also, Genia is by far the best in the world and he proved that in by his performance in the first test, he just had an off game last test. I do agree with your 3rd point that Scott Fardy is a great player!

You will probably see these points when you watch the T.V coverage plus this is only my opinion

He was easily out-played in the first Test by A Smith. Was poor in the 2nd.

 

[Bullrush]

RE Ref debate - these guys are not perfect we all know. ok we get it. But if the ABs roll the dice and play cynically and don't get carded I ask who is to blame?

It has to be the ref!

Who else has the ability / responsibility to call it how it is.

If TMO needs more power e.g. executive power over on-field ref - then so be it - but something has to change - you cant just accept unfair decisions that CLEARLY effect the outcome of a game.. Unless of course you have got no balls and accept getting screwed......

In early 2000s the Mitchell coached ABs were very forthright in pointing to the English 'cynical play' when England was dominating world rugby. So the wheel does turn. and will likely turn again.. hopefully sooner than later.

The players have considerably more ability and responsibility to CLEARLY effect the outcome of a game than a ref has.

I don't remember England dominating world rugby in the early 2000's. They won a RWC in 2003 but it was hardly an era where I would call them the dominant world force. I would have probably rated Australia better than them back then.

 

[It is what it is]

For us to be a chance of beating the All Blacks my guess is that 8 out of 10 variables need to go in our favour.
The variables could include the bounce of the ball, injuries, weather, missed tackles, turnovers, field position dominance, refereeing decisions and others.
When the Wallabies lose, too many of us (me sometimes included) tend to jump on refereeing decisions as "the variable" that made the difference.
Often we might have only had 4 of the other 9 variables in our favour BUT the focus goes onto just 1 variable - refereeing.
The All Blacks can probably beat us with 4 to 5 variables in their favour, such is their current dominance.

 

[ACT Crusader]

The players have considerably more ability and responsibility to CLEARLY effect the outcome of a game than a ref has.

I don't remember England dominating world rugby in the early 2000's. They won a RWC in 2003 but it was hardly an era where I would call them the dominant world force. I would have probably rated Australia better than them back then.

In 2002 and 03 England were on fire beating all comers. Beat the ABs and OZ in both 2002 and 2003 (prior to the WC). Beat the Boks in 02 as well. Won a grand Slam 03 also.

They had the best form going into the WC IMO but were never clear cut favourites because of the Aussie home soil factor.

 

[Lee Grant]

A few thoughts.
1. I don't agree refereeing should not be discussed, especially if there seemed to be an overall poor performance.

Me either - my ''maybe" was whimsical - there is just too much of it: as though refereeing was the most important thing in the loss in Bled 2.

It wasn't.
.

 

[Bullrush]

They won by very small margins if I remember and were hardly dominant (against the ABs). Can't remember their games v the Boks or Aus but I really don't think they were what I would class as dominant. Just my recollection though.....

 

[Dan54]

Interesting to see how disappointed Link was with his subs, says they missed 25% of the Wallaby tackles. Can understand where he coming from you would hope fresh legs and bodies would do a bit better.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

RE Ref debate - these guys are not perfect we all know. ok we get it. But if the ABs roll the dice and play cynically and don't get carded I ask who is to blame?

It has to be the ref!

Who else has the ability / responsibility to call it how it is.

If TMO needs more power e.g. executive power over on-field ref - then so be it - but something has to change - you cant just accept unfair decisions that CLEARLY effect the outcome of a game.. Unless of course you have got no balls and accept getting screwed......

.

Finally, I have clicked! You boys are all just on the wind up. Ok, you got this kiwi good and proper!

(you can't honestly expect to be taken seriously on this... can you?)

Bullrush - your memory is wrong. They dominated the world game. It was a sad time. But Kudos to England, their forwards were a thing of joy to watch. Hard hard hard bastards playing the lines we play now, right on the edge. Hill, Dallaglio & Back woudl have to be one of, if not the best English backrow ever.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Bullrush - your memory is wrong. They dominated the world game. It was a sad time. But Kudos to England, their forwards were a thing of joy to watch. Hard hard hard bastards playing the lines we play now, right on the edge. Hill, Dallaglio & Back woudl have to be one of, if not the best English backrow ever.

And right up until the RWC in 2003 they played some good running rugby as well. They just got very conservative in the World Cup itself. You are right that the England back row at the time was absolute quality.

 

[Blue]

And right up until the RWC in 2003 they played some good running rugby as well. They just got very conservative in the World Cup itself. You are right that the England back row at the time was absolute quality.

That whole pack was one of the best we have seen in the modern game.

 

[I like to watch]

Interesting to see how disappointed Link was with his subs, says they missed 25% of the Wallaby tackles. Can understand where he coming from you would hope fresh legs and bodies would do a bit better.

Interesting but irrelevant.the game was lost before the bench came into play.
Blame the bench when they give up a lead.
Win the breakdown with your starting players,and you will cure most ailments this side has ATM.

 

[Braveheart81]

Interesting to see how disappointed Link was with his subs, says they missed 25% of the Wallaby tackles. Can understand where he coming from you would hope fresh legs and bodies would do a bit better.

Statistics obviously vary depending on the source, but rugbystats.com.au is showing only 2 of the 20 tackles missed as being from reserves (one for Kepu and one for Douglas).

I think Link is being a little disingenuous with his 25% comment.

The only reserve who came on when the game was actually close was Sio. The margin stayed roughly where it was from the point where every other reserve came onto the field.

 

[Bullrush]

Finally, I have clicked! You boys are all just on the wind up. Ok, you got this kiwi good and proper!

(you can't honestly expect to be taken seriously on this. can you?)

Bullrush - your memory is wrong. They dominated the world game. It was a sad time. But Kudos to England, their forwards were a thing of joy to watch. Hard hard hard bastards playing the lines we play now, right on the edge. Hill, Dallaglio & Back woudl have to be one of, if not the best English backrow ever.

Impossible I say!! Impossible!!!

 

[cyclopath]

Impossible I say!! Impossible!!!

I have to agree, you're not remembering clearly.
As much as I hate to say it, that England pack, and back row in particular, was superb - well balanced, skillful and highly effective.

 

[Bullrush]

I have to agree, you're not remembering clearly.
As much as I hate to say it, that England pack, and back row in particular, was superb - well balanced, skillful and highly effective.

27th Aug 2013, 15:39 - The day I was wrong.

Hehehe