New Zealand vs Australia - Bledisloe 2, 24th August 2013

[Quick Hands]

Having brought in a young player like To'omua, McKenzie has to stick with him. Quade is not the answer, I know his fan club think that he is, but I just don't see it. One assumes from the fact that McKenzie went for To'omua ahead of QC (Quade Cooper), who he's coached for a few years, tends to indicate that he doesn't think he's the answer either. When we needed to keep the ball in hand and score another try, he had players outside and banged the ball straight up the middle of the field to Dagg and the ABs ran the ball almost to the exact spot from which it was kicked.

Folau needs to play fullback, question marks over Genia and a few hard decisions ahead for McKenzie.

 

[Nathan's]

I don't think the ref was perfect, far from it and Australia should have been awarded that first Try. However, it's foolish to blame the ref. Australia had more than enough chances to create opportunities for themselves. For the Wallabies to have had a chance of winning, they have to be better. Even if the ref was on the Wallabies side, it wouldn't have mattered. The All Blacks cut through the Wallabies' defense in open field like a hot knife through butter.

I'm sorry but I am blaming the ref because he lost us the game. For the first 20-30 mins, we had ALL the momentum. How would the All-Blacks have gone if we were 14-0 up at least and possibly something like that going into half-time? Even 14-7 is a big difference. We had opportunities, but weren't able to convert them mainly thanks to the All-Blacks deliberately slowing the ball, being off side or just committing some sort of professional foul every time we got into their 22. Not taking anything away from the All-Blacks, but it's becoming ridiculous. For such an important game to be so poorly reffed, it's a disaster. We had our heads drop, confidence was shot and momentum thrown back to the All-Blacks, could have been an upset last night but wasn't.

Also, everyone has gone straight for the jugular with Mowen's performance. However, i think many have forgotten that he WAS the BEST forward in the Lion's series.

 

[Shiggins]

Have you banged your head on something? I did not say Peyper was good, in fact I must posted 5 or 6 times to the contrary.
Do you actually read anything before you post?
You are a waste of bandwidth.

Let me start again.

I though we were hard done by. We did not out play the all blacks at all however there is something to be said for momentum. If we had of scored a try instead of getting those penalties we could of been away. Our defence was terrible and our disciple was worse then usual.

When I watched the al blacks take the Bledisloe they didn't seem overly exited about it. That's why I mentioned about deserving it. There is no doubt the wallabies wanted it more when you look at the faces of the boys. It's was also good to see the wallabies players look devastated about loosing for once.

 

[TooEasyWobbles]

I'm sorry but I am blaming the ref because he lost us the game. For the first 20-30 mins, we had ALL the momentum. How would the All-Blacks have gone if we were 14-0 up at least and possibly something like that going into half-time? Even 14-7 is a big difference. We had opportunities, but weren't able to convert them mainly thanks to the All-Blacks deliberately slowing the ball, being off side or just committing some sort of professional foul every time we got into their 22. Not taking anything away from the All-Blacks, but it's becoming ridiculous. For such an important game to be so poorly reffed, it's a disaster. We had our heads drop, confidence was shot and momentum thrown back to the All-Blacks, could have been an upset last night but wasn't.

Also, everyone has gone straight for the jugular with Mowen's performance. However, i think many have forgotten that he WAS the BEST forward in the Lion's series.

I see what you're saying, but in all fairness, Australia (and a lot of teams) play the game in much the same way.

 

[Nathan's]

I see what you're saying, but in all fairness, Australia (and a lot of teams) play the game in much the same way.

Yeh I understand, we have been guilty of it in the past, but we could have slowed your ball down and committed professional fouls last night, but didn't. I'm sick of watching rugby matches that get decided by refereeing decisions.

In an article on Sport24.co.za this is what was said that I'd like to share with everyone:

Australian captain James Horwill questioned Peyper on why he did not go to the television match official (TMO) for a ruling on whether Moore scored, a course of action also recommended by touch judge Lourens van der Merwe.
But the referee said there was no need and awarded a penalty to the Wallabies instead.

I'm sorry, but that's a pathetic excuse, "no need", you've got to be kidding me right? Just shows you how poor the ref was. Blatantly biased.

Read the full article here:
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/Wallabies-fume-at-ref-Jaco-Peyper-20130824

 

[Rassie]

Peyper scored two tries and all the AB 27 points as well as making Australia perform some poor tactical decisions? Think Meyer should give him a call up to the Springbok squad.

 

[No4918]

McCaw and Read very quickly hunted Peyper down for a handshake after the game. They were dodging our players to get to him. Maybe Horwill did the same and it wasn't shown, may mean nothing.

Few other things:
1. Well done Fardy, solid effort.
2. Lineout went bad when Mowen left the field. Simmons should have been very good at calling but if not for that worry I would possibly look to drop Mowen for McCalman
3. Hooper needs to get into more rucks or make way for Gill. I don't care about his running game while we keep losing the breakdown.
4. Mogg........ Some of his mid field kicks were very contestable and he chased well to put Dagg under pressure a couple of times which led to one turnover. Still don't think he is consistent or composed enough for tests.
5. Nonu is very lucky there are no other 12 options.

Definitely looked better. We will win it back next year.

 

[TOCC]

When I watched the al blacks take the Bledisloe they didn't seem overly exited about it. That's why I mentioned about deserving it. There is no doubt the wallabies wanted it more when you look at the faces of the boys. It's was also good to see the wallabies players look devastated about loosing for once.

What exactly did you expect, if they celebrated and danced around would you label them arrogant and bad sports? McCaw seemed quite humble in victory, acting in the manner that I would expect of our captain if we beat another team for the 11th year in a row.

The AB's victories are a product of their efforts in training and preparation, you don't win Test matches in the manner they do without deserving it.

 

[Ruggo]

We are not saints when it comes to cynical play. Our laziness in work ethic at the moment is contributing highly.

 

[FrankLind]

Having brought in a young player like To'omua, McKenzie has to stick with him. Quade is not the answer, I know his fan club think that he is, but I just don't see it. One assumes from the fact that McKenzie went for To'omua ahead of QC (Quade Cooper), who he's coached for a few years, tends to indicate that he doesn't think he's the answer either. When we needed to keep the ball in hand and score another try, he had players outside and banged the ball straight up the middle of the field to Dagg and the ABs ran the ball almost to the exact spot from which it was kicked.

Folau needs to play fullback, question marks over Genia and a few hard decisions ahead for McKenzie.

I think your best longterm option at 10 is Lilo, with someone like Rob Horne at 12. To'omua appears no better than a safe option. I think he had great ride behind the Brumbies pack and was lifted by them. Lilo seems to have more vision and seems much more comfortable at international level.

 

[FrankLind]

So much criticism being thrown around. Get behind your national side or don't watch at all. People are now calling Genia to sit on the bench, I'm sorry but he is easily the best 9 in the world. He had an off game, get over it, everyone does. Yes he may have had his box kicks charged down, half the time the All-Blacks don't even run back on-side. I'm going to vent a few other points here:

Everyone says the All-Blacks are one of the best sides ever. I agree, but they blatantly cheat. Sit off side, slow the ball, hands in the ruck, you name it they do it. Prime examples from last night:

Leali'ifano makes a break, Aaron Smith makes the tackle, doesn't release him and then we have Reid deliberately jump over the ruck, off side and tackle Genia. Ref comes back for the penalty, All-Blacks get a gain. They committed 2 deliberate penalties, one should have been carded.

The Wallabies were flawless for the first 20-30 minutes. They played some of the best rugby I've seen for a long time, completely dominated the All-Blacks. Scoreboard should have read 14-0 at least in favour to us. The main game changer was not Mogg's kick, it was the tries we didn't receive. The ref played us out of the game, causing us to lose confidence and momentum.

Keep deluding yourself. Geez.

 

[Rassie]

Numbers, Referees are not willing to dish out yellows in BC matches that could influence the result of a game because they will get crapped on in public and lose their jobs. So in future get Steve Walsh to referee the games as he is too confused to be bias.

And the trick is not with the captain. Its with the AB and their selection as a number 9. He needs to be chirpy, good at pretending he knows the rules and constantly talking and showing the referee that they are doing their best to stay onsude. Example look at how Smith & Smith slap Whitelock after the referee warned him he is doing something wrong.

Their HB main job is doing that all the time thus creating a good image.

 

[light]

Didn't get to watch the game live last night and had to resort to replays in the early hours of this morning. Had a bit of time to think about it and yet I still do not have the words to describe my disappointment.

I was one of those optimists that really thought Link would make an immediate impact, appears as if his honeymoon is now over and there is plenty of work to do. We are just not playing as a team, our backs looked dysfunctional with skewed passes and silly errors compounded by a forward pack that got completely dominated in the set piece and around the park. There were far too many occasions where players were isolated with the pill. Won't even discuss our defence yet, that JOC (James O'Connor) wing is a serious vulnerability and To'omua made some serious misjudgements.

I think we are now learning how vital David Pocock was to our side, we look like sh*t without him.

Forwards: Hooper was exceptional but he doesn't have the same presence around the breakdown that opponents fear; Mowen was well below average, his last two games at 8 prove he isn't at international standard in that position; Fardy and Slipper were passable; Moore had a shocker; Alexander and Simmons were average but better than past efforts, and Horwill fought hard but really struggled to assert any form of leadership.

Backs: Folau was good but still needs to be involved more; JOC (James O'Connor) had one of his better games minus a few defensive mishaps; To'omua looked good with the ball but rarely straightened the attack and struggled in defence; Lilo stood up and made the 12 jersey his own; AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was a ghost; Genia was pathetically slow as is becoming the usual, and Mogg continues to prove he is not ready at this level.

For the Boks I'd have.
1. Fat Cat
2. Moore
3. Slipper
4. Big Kev (c)
5. Fardy
6. Mowen
7. MFH
8. McCalman

9. White
10. To'omua
11. Honey Badger
12. Lilo
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. Bieber
15. Issy

 

[TSR]

I understand some criticism of the ref, but can't we avoid making the suggestion he was deliberately biased which seems to have crept into a couple of posts. 1. Some of his incorrect decisions favoured Australia 2. The argument that we were otherwise the better team is shaky at best (or just wrong IMO). 3. He is South African - why would he deliberately favour the All Blacks.

At the end of day, blaming the ref is counterproductive as it allows you to excuse your own poor play.

With regards to where we go from here I would suggest that McKenzie was enough of a realist to have a plan that extended beyond the first two games against the number 1 ranked side in the world. I'm pretty sure that plan will include allowing for some set backs and showing some faith in selections.

I remain optomistic that predictions of a new dawn in Australian rugby were just premature rather than completely misplaced.

 

[The Rock]

Having brought in a young player like To'omua, McKenzie has to stick with him. Quade is not the answer, I know his fan club think that he is, but I just don't see it. One assumes from the fact that McKenzie went for To'omua ahead of QC (Quade Cooper), who he's coached for a few years, tends to indicate that he doesn't think he's the answer either. When we needed to keep the ball in hand and score another try, he had players outside and banged the ball straight up the middle of the field to Dagg and the ABs ran the ball almost to the exact spot from which it was kicked.

Folau needs to play fullback, question marks over Genia and a few hard decisions ahead for McKenzie.

Agree Folau should be the Fullback, he can kick and as a Leaguie he knows how to tackle well and is the best in the team under the high ball. I am worried if the Wallabies have the best Coach in McKenzie.

 

[barbarian]

I'm a fair bit more positive after watching the replay, reckon there were some clear signs of improvement from last week.

To'omua was MUCH better - more involved, lead the team well and took the ball to the line at a few appropriate times. Defence needs a bit of work, but that can be fixed.

Forwards were slightly more effective than last week, but ultimately not enough. Fardy very solid, Hooper and Horwill also OK.

Mowen had good moments and bad, Simmons was anonymous, front row were all poor. If I see James Slipper get the ball in the backline in space and dummy to Israel Folau again I am going to fucking belt him.

JOC (James O'Connor) and Folau need to be involved more. Mogg running game completely absent again, really sad.

Genia terrible. Worst on ground by far. Didn't snipe once, kicked badly, botched tryscoring chance with crazy long pass to Fardy.

Ref was poor. Didn't make a huge amount of mistakes, but almost all of the ones he made favoured the ABs.
.

 

[terry j]

Our defence was terrible and our disciple was worse then usual.

aww c'mon, cooper might not have had the BEST game ever but 'worse than usual'??

 

[Slim 293]

I'm a fair bit more positive after watching the replay, reckon there were some clear signs of improvement from last week.

To'omua was MUCH better - more involved, lead the team well and took the ball to the line at a few appropriate times. Defence needs a bit of work, but that can be fixed.

Forwards were slightly more effective than last week, but ultimately not enough. Fardy very solid, Hooper and Horwill also OK.

Mowen had good moments and bad, Simmons was anonymous, front row were all poor. If I see James Slipper get the ball in the backline in space and dummy to Israel Folau again I am going to fucking belt him.

JOC (James O'Connor) and Folau need to be involved more. Mogg running game completely absent again, really sad.

Genia terrible. Worst on ground by far. Didn't snipe once, kicked badly, botched tryscoring chance with crazy long pass to Fardy.

Ref was poor. Didn't make a huge amount of mistakes, but almost all of the ones he made favoured the ABs.
.

I actually agree with all of this.............

 

[Ruggo]

Having brought in a young player like To'omua, McKenzie has to stick with him. Quade is not the answer, I know his fan club think that he is, but I just don't see it. One assumes from the fact that McKenzie went for To'omua ahead of QC (Quade Cooper), who he's coached for a few years, tends to indicate that he doesn't think he's the answer either. When we needed to keep the ball in hand and score another try, he had players outside and banged the ball straight up the middle of the field to Dagg and the ABs ran the ball almost to the exact spot from which it was kicked.

Folau needs to play fullback, question marks over Genia and a few hard decisions ahead for McKenzie.

I am a Quade fan without doubt but I think McKenzie has stuffed the 10 selection royally. Quade should have started and To'omua introduced to international rugby via the bench. I am not saying that Quade is the long term answer but there is a lot of common sense in selecting the more experienced player to begin with. It would have been easy to drop Cooper but now McKenzie is backed into a corner where he can't really switch his greener 10 in To'omua without running the risk of damaging his confidence. Leading into the first Bledisloe, To'omua also had the shorter preparation time and a higher level of fatigue. Neither of these will help a rookie player perform.

I want to see the Genia Cooper combination reinstated for the next game. Consider it Genia's last chance to find form or White to start against the Argies. Genia is becoming more of a protected species and I think a big part of the problem is that he knows it.

 

[KOB1987]

Of all the stats out of last nights game the most important one was the 16-8 penalty count in favour of the ABs..take out the ridiculous reversal for Mowen's 'indiscretion' alone and that stat comes back to 15-9 and the scoreline to (possibly) 20-19