New Zealand vs Australia - Bledisloe 2, 24th August 2013

[Inside Shoulder]

Anyone here who thinks the ref cost us the game ignores the fact that the ABs fired about two shots in the whole game because they simply decided to take points rather than step on our throat.

The big question about our team is fitness. This affects everything including support play and realignment and execution. The ABs don't seem to have this problem.

I had another look at the Moore no try: we get only one angle and it looks that (a) he did not lose control of the ball and (b) it was on the line.
I'm not saying it was a try but from the one angle it looked arguable. That, at least, meant the other angles needed to be looked at. I'll stick my neck out and say on that one angle I've seen less worthy efforts given a try.
Had Moore scored then its 7-0 instead of 3-0.
Big big turning point.
We'll never know how the AB's might have gone if they'd had to chase the game.
I'd love to hear Peyper's explanations.

 

[Quick Hands]

The ABs take almost every opportunity that they get and we don't. When they make a break or have turnover ball, they have support players there in numbers. And their big guys don't just rumble it up on the turnover, more than once they've put the ball through the hands on the short side with tight forwards catching and passing in the same motion.

Support players in numbers is a basic principle of the game. The ability to catch and pass in one motion (and to know when to do so) is a basic skill. ABs are miles ahead in both departments and we won't beat them on a regular basis (if at all) until we fix these 2 things up.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Peyper had a massive impact on the game. Very strange as I rate him quite highly as a ref.

It is up to the Australians though to deal with that. Good teams get on with the job when hard done by and our lot just drop their bundle (or at least their heads).

There is only one thing to do: train properly. A lot. Learn to catch, pass and run properly. Not for just one or two weeks, but consistently and continuously.

That is the difference. Our union guys just don't execute the basics at any level of competency so that when the shit hits the fan, they have no fall back position other than fitness.

I don't think this is limited to just rugby union either.

I thought the Aussies were pretty good at exploiting Peyper's lack of controlling the offside line and hence putting a lot of pressure on A. Smith, Taylor and Nonu. Hooper in particular was all over them.

 

[It is what it is]

Utter fucking bullshit.

Get a real Ref and it's completely different game.

The Wallabies forwards had the AB forwards scrambling all night only to have the poorest of Refereeing decisions kill momentum.

And don't forget "a dog ate my homework" too.
The All Blacks have consistently beaten us for many years.
Don't confuse effort with outcome.
The Wallabies are trying hard but just aren't good enough at the moment.
My sense is that the All Blacks still have another gear that they haven't been forced to use as yet because they haven't had to.
Our recovery will take time.

 

[KOB1987]

Getting beaten by the AB's by 11 points at Wellington is neither disastrous nor unusual. The Wobs have closed the gap on the previous week's performance and are still adapting to a new team, a new game plan and a new culture. Pity we didn't have the 2 games against the Pumas to begin with and the ABs at the tail end.

The rest of the TRC and most importantly the 3rd Bledisloe will provide us with a yardstick of our progress.

Robinson must be brought back in.

 

[Ruggo]

Nope. I see through the Mowen haze. He deserved to be picked but he isn't anywhere near a guaranteed starter for mine. Has now had three very average games in a row - s15 final plus two tests.

Doesn't seem to have the physical impact at test level - poor clean outs, average carries and gives away penalties.

At least Fardy was good. Link must be scratching around for who to try next - getting close to a double openside option but not sure if that is the answer.

Mowen looks like a stop gap measure until Higgers returns. No more and no less. Fardy looked like he is here to stay though. Easy to say after one test but he did what was needed well. He played wider than with the Brumbies so fair to say he is also taking in coaches instructions. I think him and MMM will have some selection battles in the future.

With our breakdown work being so shit, I think it highlights how much we miss Pocock. Hooper is good and his future is bright without doubt but he doesn't offer rock solid break down presence that the Cock does. It is the area of the game where we need our seven. Time to give Gill a start and see if he can make a difference here.

I also want to see White get a start. Might give Genia the kick in the pants he looks to need.

 

[Jnor]

Getting beaten by the AB's by 11 points at Wellington is neither disastrous nor unusual. The Wobs have closed the gap on the previous week's performance and are still adapting to a new team, a new game plan and a new culture. Pity we didn't have the 2 games against the Pumas to begin with and the ABs at the tail end.

The rest of the TRC and most importantly the 3rd Bledisloe will provide us with a yardstick of our progress.

Robinson must be brought back in.

I think all your points are valid - the biggest problem I have with result is that we never (except maybe in the first 30) looked like we were going to come close to winning the thing.

The ABs controlled the tempo and evenntually the result almost perfectly.

 

[nugget]

What'll happen eventually is that our bogans will start to respond, until every contest between our teams is played out to a continuous background of catcalls and jeers. Not my cup of tea.

But that's what league is for. It's a 'bogan filter' for rugby in Australia. The Kiwi's don't have that luxury.

 

[Sully]

The ref didn't knock on.
The ref didn't turn over ball.
The ref didn't leave the ball sitting at the back of rucks
The ref didn't spit the ball out the side of scrums
The ref didn't pass the ball to the sideline
The ref didn't not hook at the ball in the scrums
The ref didn't stuff up the lineouts
The ref didn't kick badly.
The ref didn't let high balls bounce instead of catching them.

The ref didn't lose us the game!

 

[ACT Crusader]

The ref didn't knock on.
The ref didn't turn over ball.
The ref didn't leave the ball sitting at the back of rucks
The ref didn't spit the ball out the side of scrums
The ref didn't pass the ball to the sideline
The ref didn't not hook at the ball in the scrums
The ref didn't stuff up the lineouts
The ref didn't kick badly.
The ref didn't let high balls bounce instead of catching them.

The ref didn't lose us the game!

And most importantly, the Ref didn't boo Cooper

 

[Dam0]

Peyper had a game he would rather forget. I was not a fan of his until very recently, I thought he was prone to making decisions based purely on the flow of the game and not on the lawbook. The last half of Super Rugby I thought he was much better and looked like he had turned the corner, but alas.

Am I right in thinking that this was his first really top flight international? I recall he did ARG v NZ last year (where he got praised in the media but made some shocking calls) but this might have been the first really top class test match he has had to do where the result is in doubt (well, sort of ).

Every ref will have a 'train crash' game as they move up the grades, whether it is going from age group to 1st XV to Club to Super, to Test etc. Speaking from experience you can see it happening in slow motion in front of you but there is nothing you can do about it. Although I think his decision making influenced the game, I don't know that it influenced the result. Had he put A Smith in the bin early, then we might well have seen more tries from both sides - on balance there appeared to be more cynical stuff from the Wallabies than the All Blacks over the course of the game. As for the Moore try, I can only imagine he saw an infringement by the Wallabies prior to Moore getting over the line. I haven't seen the replay but that was my impression at the time.

Anyway, it was good to see a better Wallaby performance, it will be interesting to see how they go against the Boks and then against us down in Shield Country in a month or two. I think the strategy from the Wallabies last night was awful but there is potential there.

 

[Ruggo]

One other little thing I noticed about the All Blacks. Whitelock and Retallic look to form a fantastically balanced locking combination. Luetua covers the wide running option well and these blokes just formed a fantastic engine room. If Luke Romano sees another AB cap while these blokes are fit, I think the coach has rocks in his head.

 

[I like to watch]

Getting beaten by the AB's by 11 points at Wellington is neither disastrous nor unusual. The Wobs have closed the gap on the previous week's performance and are still adapting to a new team, a new game plan and a new culture. Pity we didn't have the 2 games against the Pumas to begin with and the ABs at the tail end.

The rest of the TRC and most importantly the 3rd Bledisloe will provide us with a yardstick of our progress.

Robinson must be brought back in.

I didn't think there was any improvement at all.we kept the scores closer by spoiling and being off side all night.
Lets face it Moore was the only time we troubled the try line from our own endeavours.
The only try in two games we constructed was in the 79th minute of the first game,when we got a mismatch with a winger on a prop.
Not saying it won't come,just there is no evidence of any improvement at this stage.

 

[fatprop]

Yeah, our basic skills under pressure are just not there at times, some of the final passes to folau were just dire.

 

[Quick Hands]

The ref didn't knock on.
The ref didn't turn over ball.
The ref didn't leave the ball sitting at the back of rucks
The ref didn't spit the ball out the side of scrums
The ref didn't pass the ball to the sideline
The ref didn't not hook at the ball in the scrums
The ref didn't stuff up the lineouts
The ref didn't kick badly.
The ref didn't let high balls bounce instead of catching them.

The ref didn't lose us the game!

There's a bit of work to do, isn't there?

Where those things get found out is when you play top class opposition, you'll get away with that stuff against a lot of teams, but not the ABs.

 

[Garryowen]

Sipper - good while it lasted
Moore - just awful. Ineffective at the ruck, penalty and error magnet. Woeful set piece.
Alexander - is he really the best tight head we have?
Simmons - inconspicuous but sense that he was ok
Horwill - better performance, shit captaincy
Fardy - good, but still well outplayed by his opposite
Hooper - good, but needs more physicality
Mowen - I was watching in a noisy bar and he didn't seem as shit as everyone has made our - still not a test level 8

Genia - just awful. He should never be allowed to box kick ever again. Plus he continues to stall any attacking momentum the team generates with his tardiness around the ruck.
To'omua - solid in attack but poor defensively
O'connor - very good - made his tackles and dangerous with ball in hand
Lilo - good, should have gone for the corner though. Feel he was to blame for some defensive holes with To'omua
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) - was he playing?
Folau - great with what little he had to do, needs to go to 15
Mogg - confirmed he is not ready for test rugby

Sio - shares the blame for the scrum deterioration
Finger - ok but not a test hooker
Kepu - scrum seemed better with him on
Douglas - not spotted
Gill - ok
White - immediate improvement on Genia
Cooper - so so, not the long term solution
Kuridrani - poor with the limited opportunities he had

 

[gel]

I thought the Aussies were pretty good at exploiting Peyper's lack of controlling the offside line and hence putting a lot of pressure on A. Smith, Taylor and Nonu. Hooper in particular was all over them.

The one sentence you highlight was not really the thrust of what i was saying. If I may, I'll try to put it another way.

Both teams were hard done by because the referee had a shocker and heavily influenced the game because of it.

NZ get on with the game because they are a good team with good players.

Australia drop their heads and focus on the ref because they are bad. This is obvious how they start to question the ref constantly and talk and stand there shaking their heads and screaming at the ref at any and all indiscretion. NZ (and the good teams) don't do this.

But I appreciate you taking notice of only one sentence without any regard to the context.

 

[Scoey]

We have this propensity (and Genia is the prime culprit) of being outraged at every ruck of ours that the oppo is trying to slow/win the ball. Our very first instinct is generally to take our eyes off the ruck and appeal to the ref. Genia should be focused on assessing options and getting the ball out. Someone said it earlier that if we are relying on the ref to win our ball back we are already beat.
FFS if there's a hand on the ball, fucking shoe it. If there's a body on the wrong side, send in a couple of pigs to hurt the fucker. If your oppo knows that all you are going to do is cry to the ref (which I think makes them less likely to award a penalty if you do it as often as we do) then of course they're gonna do what they can to spoil it.
We need to stop fucking around an actually play some Rugby!

 

[Garryowen]

As an aside, Kearns rightfully cops stick for being a one-eyed cheerleader, but how about some mud for Greg Clarke? His job is to call the play, yet he constantly gets players' names wrong, including calling one of the Wallabies Israel Dagg. He's also clearly visually impaired. He suggested Savea might have scored after Folau bundled him into touch. I'd forgive these indiscretions if they weren't so common place.

At the very least get the man some fucking glasses.

 

[ACT Crusader]

The one sentence you highlight was not really the thrust of what i was saying. If I may, I'll try to put it another way.

Both teams were hard done by because the referee had a shocker and heavily influenced the game because of it.

NZ get on with the game because they are a good team with good players.

Australia drop their heads and focus on the ref because they are bad. This is obvious how they start to question the ref constantly and talk and stand there shaking their heads and screaming at the ref at any and all indiscretion. NZ (and the good teams) don't do this.

But I appreciate you taking notice of only one sentence without any regard to the context.

i understand your context and have already made comments previously on the Wallabies lack of composure so i don't feel I need to repeat myself.

I agree that Horwill and Genia, the two foremost leaders in the team get all shirty when things aren't going their way and I think this just fires up their opposition even more so to push the limits and get their minds off the task at hand.

As far as my comment about Hooper, it was actually something I saw as a positive rather than a negative of the game.