New Zealand v Wallabies, Eden Park, Sat 22nd October

[Bullrush]

Folau, on his day is the best fullback in the world.

We have very high expectations on the bloke, because we have all seen what he can do.

But he has not had a dominant, world's best fullback performance for 12 months (inclusive of RWC). His form by his standards is poor.

By other standards he may be playing just OK.

I think Folau played pretty well on the weekend. No player is going to get a lot of opportunities against the ABs but how many half-breaks or little missed tackles did he create on attack. The problem is not one other Wallaby is looking to run off those. There are times where he seems desperate for someone to take an off-load but no-one is there.

That makes him easier to defend against because you know you don't have to worry about support players.

Regardless of his kicking weakness, I think he would be in the AB squad if he was a kiwi.

So long out of the game i forgot about forums and went to a posted article, but had been thinking talking to a mate about scrums in the last game. Given how big of angle nz was feeding the ball in scrums yet we decided not to, was it a tactic to keep long scrums going and tire the dynamism out of the abs?

I was loving the AB scrum on the weekend. I think they were at a disadvantage of over 30kgs and yet they were pretty bloody solid and almost seemed to invite the challenge of the Wallaby pack.

I know people always talk shit about how much time scrums take etc etc but to me, that would be like hating on basketball players who shoot jumpers and play solid man-on defence because you'd rather watch guys dunk and make spectacular blocks.

Both are important parts of the game and if you don't like them, you probably need to find another game.

 

[Gnostic]

I think the kicking stats are remarkable. Six kicks in general play of which presumably three led directly to ABs' tries. That being the case, there is a very loud alarm bell ringing somewhere that needs to be taken seriously by our coaching staff. Either the kicks are poor or the chase is poor, or maybe both. In any case, it seems we need to sharpen up our kicking skills and our defensive efforts and structures when the opposition run the ball back at us.

Staggered defensive line after each kick and the quick passing game of the ABs.

The defensive system seemed to be different for this test, but they just may be an artefact of players not getting shuffled all over the place in defence. There seemed to be a better coverage of the field and not offering the ABs clear space on the wings.

 

[Gnostic]

Regardless of his kicking weakness, I think he would be in the AB squad if he was a kiwi.

If he was in the ABs his kicking deficiency would have been addressed, or like Dagg when Smith came along he would have fallen to next best at 15.

 

[KAOPointman]

My thought on the Wallabies:-
The good:-
1) to my single and only watching it seemed the defensive pattern changed without having to shuffle the backline about to cover the dual playmaker rubbish. The defensive line was also far less compressed from the start and managed usually to have better set numbers wide.
2) Amazing - who'd have thought it, having a balanced backline in terms of skills would result in more fluent attack. It didn't pay off but that was the best attack the Wallabies have put together this year. As I've said I don't give a rats arse who starts but select one of Foley or Cooper and be done with it. I don't think the situation would be better with either Beale or To'omua fit. Pick a 12 at 12.
3) As with point 2 - very good to see a balanced backrow. Every player had an impact for their role. Was that the first lineout the Wallabies managed to steal all year? Our lineout was still under pressure but was better than it had been. To all those still bashing Mumm, the ABs couldn't get a single maul moving largely due to the efforts of Mumm to disrupt it. There hasn't been an Australian backrower able to execute that ability consistently since Ben Mowen. Apart from Fardy being so far out form it is why I think Mumm is picked over him and Timani at 6. The Lineout and the maul defence.
4) Phipps had a pretty good game I thought, but he should have been replaced after 50 as he was blown.
5) The attack structure - gone was the constant recycle of Larkham, Finally FFS. The Wallabies actually look to something with the ball, helped by some actually go forward from the forwards, provided by Timani, Kepu and the locks and close support for them, allowed by Point 3.
6)The scrum, starting and finishing tight 5s were good.

The bad:-
1) Hodge. I am unconvinced. A big bloke with no leg drive, not much pace and falls off too many tackle. Don't get me wrong I thought overall the Wallabies backline was the best it has been this year having somebody actually play 12, but I am not convinced Hodge is the man. The best game the Tahs played all year was with Horne in his natural position at 12, maybe he could be a solution, or from left field Tapuai, that's if my preference of Kerevi to 12 is unfavoured. The charge down. DHP has been in the side all year and is yet to make a single clearing kick that I can remember. He has a very good boot, why not use it and have two or three options at the back to keep the opposition guessing as to where the clearance is coming from? No lets be smart and telegraph it so he can show how good he is under pressure.
2) Speight - he has never been a good defensive winger (await Brumby fan abuse), but he is one of few top grade wingers in the country with genuine speed.
3) Skills - as usual the skills just are not up to scratch, BUT I think they may be improving.

Overall (scoreline ignored) the Wallabies performed far better than I expected and I'm happier for that. I did predict a 5 to 1 tries scored unfortunately but the actual performance was far better than anything else they put on at any time this year. I won't say anything at all about the ABs, as I've said it before, nothing has changed.

Don't know why everyone keep saying that was our best attacking game all year??? Game two we had more run metres, more possession and more importantly more line breaks at over 25ish for the game. THAT is a good attacking game.

 

[KAOPointman]

The thing about Foley's kicking is that it isn't just a weakness, it's a liability which frequently puts us on unnecessary pressure.

He seriously just needs to stop, actually make an effort to get out of position and let some-one else clear.

Although the rest of his game was good last night.

I'm sorry but having your playmaker commit consistent try scoring opportunities for the opponent can't be made up unless they personally out score their stuff ups. I sound like a broken record, but if Quade kicked like Foley did that night......we'd never see him again......and that's just one game. He does this often.....with only the "occasional" super hero game!
I'm sorry but I'll take quades often pure freakish skill over mr Foley all day!

 

[Brumby Runner]

So long out of the game i forgot about forums and went to a posted article, but had been thinking talking to a mate about scrums in the last game. Given how big of angle nz was feeding the ball in scrums yet we decided not to, was it a tactic to keep long scrums going and tire the dynamism out of the abs?

I think there was a combination of Phipps not feeding the ball to the sweet spot for Moore to hook it, and the fact that we couldn't then move the scrum forward over the static ball. I think Byrne will need to have a few sessions with Phipps about how to feed to give our scrum the best chance of winning.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Staggered defensive line after each kick and the quick passing game of the ABs.

The defensive system seemed to be different for this test, but they just may be an artefact of players not getting shuffled all over the place in defence. There seemed to be a better coverage of the field and not offering the ABs clear space on the wings.

True, but on two occasions that defensive line allowed the ABs to stroll though for tries. It is difficult to have a set defense to meet a turnover break out, but if we kick to the opposition, the defense should know about it and be in position to cut any attack down that comes their way. Still some glaring deficiencies that don't seem to have been addressed by Messrs Cheika and Grey.

 

[Mr Doug]

Do you have any evidence that Folau is on $2 million / year? I must admit I've never seen it written anywhere yet you keep saying it? Have I missed something?

Hello Cyclo. I got it from article in the SMH, dated July 2, 2015, by Georgina Robinson, headed:
"Israel Folau to earn almost $2 million per season in new three-year deal with Waratahs and Wallabies".

In part, the article said: " The dual international happily declared 'now I feel like a Rugby player', after signing the three-year flexible contract that will allow him to earn almost $2 million per year over the term of the agreement by playing two seasons in Japan and topping up a seven figure-per-season deal with the Australian Rugby Union with test match bonuses and third party arrangements............"

Perhaps I should more accurately refer to Israel as "an (almost) $2 million per year (which includes a contribution from NNT Docomo Red Hurricanes), player".

 

[Braveheart81]

So the one certainty out of that is that he hasn't earned a cent from NTT Docomo because he didn't go there after the RWC.

It's also uncertain how much of his salary comes from the 3rd party arrangements (such as being used extensively by Foxsports).

Clearly the ARU aren't paying him anywhere near $2m a year.

 

[Pfitzy]

It didn't just the back of the jersey was shown with McGrubs face on the worm.

 

[cyclopath]

Hello Cyclo. I got it from article in the SMH, dated July 2, 2015, by Georgina Robinson, headed:
"Israel Folau to earn almost $2 million per season in new three-year deal with Waratahs and Wallabies".

In part, the article said: " The dual international happily declared 'now I feel like a Rugby player', after signing the three-year flexible contract that will allow him to earn almost $2 million per year over the term of the agreement by playing two seasons in Japan and topping up a seven figure-per-season deal with the Australian Rugby Union with test match bonuses and third party arrangements...."

Perhaps I should more accurately refer to Israel as "an (almost) $2 million per year (which includes a contribution from NNT Docomo Red Hurricanes), player".

Ah, I forgot about the Japanese deal thingy. I couldn't work out how he was getting that money in Oz.

 

[Brumby Runner]

So the one certainty out of that is that he hasn't earned a cent from NTT Docomo because he didn't go there after the RWC.

It's also uncertain how much of his salary comes from the 3rd party arrangements (such as being used extensively by Foxsports).

Clearly the ARU aren't paying him anywhere near $2m a year.

The article says ".....and topping up a seven figure-per-season deal with the Australian Rugby Union.....". I don't know how accurate that reprt is, but if on the money then he is getting in excess of $1m per year from the ARU plus test match bonuses. That is still a very swish amount being shelled out by the ARU even if it isn't the $2m per year first suggested.

 

[Strewthcobber]

The article says "...and topping up a seven figure-per-season deal with the Australian Rugby Union...". I don't know how accurate that reprt is, but if on the money then he is getting in excess of $1m per year from the ARU plus test match bonuses. That is still a very swish amount being shelled out by the ARU even if it isn't the $2m per year first suggested.

Isn't it saying he's getting a 7 figure deal with third party deals and match payments?

So at $10k per test Match, $3k per Super Rugby match and a couple of hundred k from the Waratahs you're already up to 500k.

Add in a couple of hundred grand (?) from Foxtel etc and relatively speaking it's not a huge amount more from the ARU to get to the million

That's money that has to be spent on players under the CBA anyway.

Seems like a good deal to me

 

[Brumby Runner]

I am not criticising the amount the ARU is shelling out on Izzy - just quoting exactly what the report says. That is that the ARU is paying him a seven figure amount, not including any amounts otherwise earned from representative fixtures, third party payments etc.

As I said, I don't know if the report is accurate, but that is exactly what it says.

 

[Scrubber2050]

IF Izzy is on a couple of mill and his play over the past 12 months or so (probably excluding his Tahs performances which were pretty good overall) is at the standard he now seems to have set, one can only imagine that other top players (probably on $400-600K) would be privately seething (at being underpaid).

Reckon that would just be human nature.

 

[Braveheart81]

I can't imagine any players are quietly seething that a highly paid player has had a drop in form.

I think that is so far off the mark.

I also don't think the other players are naive enough not to realise that part of Folau's overall salary package (mostly the third party arrangements) are due primarily to his public profile.

 

[Scrubber2050]

I can't imagine any players are quietly seething that a highly paid player has had a drop in form.

I think that is so far off the mark.

I also don't think the other players are naive enough not to realise that part of Folau's overall salary package (mostly the third party arrangements) are due primarily to his public profile.

That is partly true, well the last paragraph anyway about the profile. I accept that and I think most players would also.

No-one would begrudge any player having a drop in form but to be fair Folaus' has been for an extended period, probably some 12 months.

BH you must only see the good side of human nature. Even when I played sport it was an issue and that was a hellava long time ago.

I am not talking about a 10%, 20 or 30 % difference but probably a 400%-600% one.

 

[wamberal]

I would hope that any player who is capable of representing his country is also intelligent enough to understand that Izzy is by far the most interesting of our players and the one whose every move creates much needed news stories. Check your local paper.


Ditto would understand that each player has a contract with his employer, and each contract will be different. Some will get more than others. Izzy just happens to be the one who is worth the most. Not just to us, but to the alternative employer - the NRL.


What you are worth to your employer is, or should be, a bit more than what you are worth to other employers, subject to the notional value of wearing the national colours.


Each player will make his own calculations as to what he is worth to all potential employers, and most will factor in A premium for maintaining a spot in the national team.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Izzy is once again in (at least) the top 5 of the count for the John Eales medal so his voting team mates at least don't think he's had a particularly poor run of form.

 

[Pfitzy]

Anyone talking about money being tied to performance clearly hasn't worked some of the places I've worked.

In any case, if Folau's management are smarter than someone else's, then its not the ARU they should be shitty with.