New Zealand v Wallabies, Eden Park, Sat 22nd October

[Pfitzy]

Hint: here is the bit where Kiwis say "BLAME YOUR PLAYER NOT THE REF!"

And I say "Well, I'm blaming the TMO and the broadcaster, really. But 'material effect' is still in play.

 

[Strewthcobber]

This citing on Mumm..surely they don't mean at 52:41 when Mumm rolls his left arm back, clips Retallick on the chin, Retallick hits the deck, wriggles about, trainer comes over, goes off screen, but is then up & in play at 53:10??

Cause if that's truly it ----- Huh??

1:13 on youtube if timed link doesn't work.

Looks like that must be it.

Doesn't loook like there's anything in it but Retallick sure goes down.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Geez some of you Wallaby fans ar behaving fucking pathetically.

I'm the first to have a dig at kiwis who carry on like pork chops but generally a couple of guys are fairly debating the merits and you mob are cracking the shits when they respond to your comments with reasonable facts. Then go on to attack the personally.

Letter of the law it's a fair ruling.

I am dirty with the decision because this practice of "escorting" is coached into all teams and worse examples regularly go unsanctioned. Argentina for example last game were much more blatant.

As pfitz says, because a try was scored it was scrutinised more closely unfortunately.

But stop fucking carrying on. This isn't the massive injustice you all think it is. The constant whinging over officials every fucking loss is absolutely pathetic.

 

[NTT]

Wallabies played well for 50 of the 80 mins. Need to score more points though, 60+ mins without points makes it tough to win any match. Kerevi coming off hurt us. The resulting reshuffle hurt our attack as we had more backs out of position than in preferred positions. Folau worked into the line nicely which again shows how much more effective he would be in the centres, even the rugby gods were trying to show Cheika this with the eary injuries giving Cheika a perfect opportunity to move him in there with 3 wingers on the field playing out of position. Wallabies forwards are getting better too, apart from Dean Mumm who in my very humble opinion should never play a test again. My only complaint really is the number of cleanouts missed at the rucks, 99% of them from the mummys boy, that killed our momentum at crucial times hard on attack. So overall another growing performance from the Wallabies.
To the All Blacks and their supporters i say congratulations. The best team all year won again. This All Blacks machine is something NZ should be very proud of and is not, in my opinion, a bad thing for world rugby. It will force the rest of us to innovate and get better. The results show that the closest we got was 20 pts but this doesn't reflect the growth the Wallabies are going through. Once our pathways start producing the higher volume of top end talent needed, we will be coming for that no. 1 ranking.

 

[Grant NZ]

At this point, Savea is within ankle tap range.

Savea has also lost nearly 2 metres.

Savea has also covered about 2 more metres, given he's running on an angle.

And like I said - here's how close Beauden Barrett was when he began a successful ankle tap. Now sure, there's a disparity in how fast he was closing distance but it's still a pretty close call and those saying it's the worst call ever etc are indulging in hyperbolic bullshit.

 

[ShtinaTina]

1:13 on youtube if timed link doesn't work.

Looks like that must be it.

Doesn't loook like there's anything in it but Retallick sure goes down.

He might've over balanced & hit the deck, but he's up & running not long after. If it's a question of concussion, then surely the concussion Dr is onto that one but I don't think it is.
Looks pretty shaky as a citing, but hey, it's the magical wheel of suspensions that is being tested, so who knows, he might be out for 6 weeks

 

[cyclopath]

Here's where the chase started. Given Savea has had to track across laterally a couple of metres (and thus has covered a touch more ground than Speight) he's not really 'pulled away' much at all. And from where Savea is in the first shot, it'd only take a half step or so gain to get within ankle tap distance.

Also, for the sake of reference, here's how close you have to be to pull off a successful ankle tap.

Thanks for the tip, coach. I still find greater veracity in the video of the incident, not the selected still shots. Strangely.

 

[The torpedo]

Fuck it can we just all shut the fuck up about it? All the wallabies fans complaining and ABs fans whinging is pissing me off no end. It was a shit call, end of story

 

[Twoilms]

Savea has also covered about 2 more metres, given he's running on an angle.

And like I said - here's how close Beauden Barrett was when he began a successful ankle tap. Now sure, there's a disparity in how fast he was closing distance but it's still a pretty close call and those saying it's the worst call ever etc are indulging in hyperbolic bullshit.

BB is the fastest guy in World Rugby... It was a pretty horrendous decision and, if we were to apply statutory interpretation by Owens to any subsequent factual scenario (i.e. in the interpretation of law it has established a precedent) it will probably more than double the number of penalties in rugby as that bump and grind shit literally happens in every play. Now i accept that Rugby isn't the common law and it won't set a precedent but the fact that it won't simply further establishes how contrary it is to the intention of the laws to promote an entertaining, fair and free flowing game.

I think Nige knows he fucked up and that's why he told Veld to do one at the end where he was trying to overrule his decision again. He made a mistake in listening to the twat once, but wouldn't make it again. I'd honestly love to hear Owen's opinion of it.

 

[Pfitzy]

Letter of the law it's a fair ruling.

Letter of the Law, both Read and Savea are out of play before Speight even gets the ball, for interfering with DHP.

Funny how that got lost in the focus on the try, eh?

 

[Pfitzy]

So, at worst, that is advantage to us, play gets pulled up by Owens for DHP's actions, we go back for the penalty. To us. Just inside their half.

This is where the TMO protocols fall down - he is allowed to go back one phase, anywhere on the field BUT he's tracking last infringement, not first infringement.

Both Savea and Read changed their line - same Law as DHP infringes 10m downfield - but that isn't penalised.

 

[Grant NZ]

Letter of the Law, both Read and Savea are out of play before Speight even gets the ball, for interfering with DHP.

Funny how that got lost in the focus on the try, eh?

View attachment 8605

Ok, so that's a penalty to Aus. Play advantage, DHP offends, advantage over. No try, glad we agree.

 

[Pfitzy]

Ok, so that's a penalty to Aus. Play advantage, DHP offends, advantage over. No try, glad we agree.

OR all of the obstruction is treated the same as the first two. Try to us

 

[drewprint]

Good luck stopping The Bus cuz! Unless he's slightly jostled shoulder to shoulder and he throws his hands to the heavens. But usually, BEASTMODE!

 

[Pfitzy]

Good luck stopping The Bus cuz! Unless he's slightly jostled shoulder to shoulder and he throws his hands to the heavens. But usually, BEASTMODE!

He's a much better attacker than defender. Maybe DHP should have been tackling him with hip and shoulder

 

[tragic]

Here's where the chase started. Given Savea has had to track across laterally a couple of metres (and thus has covered a touch more ground than Speight) he's not really 'pulled away' much at all. And from where Savea is in the first shot, it'd only take a half step or so gain to get within ankle tap distance.

Also, for the sake of reference, here's how close you have to be to pull off a successful ankle tap.

Mate even Savea admitted after the game he was beaten and got the rub of the green.
Do you really think your opinion with a few stills give have a better understanding than the man himself?
The blind adulation of the Kiwi fan convinced his beloved ABs have superhuman abilities is pretty amusing.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Letter of the law it's a fair ruling.

The letters make up words and the words require satisfaction as to the impact on the outcome - mere contact does not undo the try because the test is that the action prevents a tackle being made.

Blocking the tackler. A player must not intentionally move or stand in a position that prevents an opponent from tackling a ball carrier.

http://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=10

No way the same result would ever have ensued had an almighty All Black done what DHP did.
Looking forward to O'Driscoll's tweet on the issue.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Good luck stopping The Bus cuz! Unless he's slightly jostled shoulder to shoulder and he throws his hands to the heavens. But usually, BEASTMODE!

He sure is a beast of a defender - Kerevi turned him inside out.
He's so bad that he'd already missed his opportunity to ankle tap Speight without knowing it.
The whole decision is absolutely typical of Owens' lack of feel for a game - as was his appalling decision to get between Phipps and Hodge. he's well past it.
And the reason we aussies are all so pissed off with it is that its taken 30 years to even look like getting there and we are robbed by another Welshman - Bevan having robbed us of a clean sweep in 86.
And that bloke with packed lunch in his shorts sent codey off in the playoff for 3rd and 4th in 87.

 

[mst]

So, at worst, that is advantage to us, play gets pulled up by Owens for DHP's actions, we go back for the penalty. To us. Just inside their half.

This is where the TMO protocols fall down - he is allowed to go back one phase, anywhere on the field BUT he's tracking last infringement, not first infringement.

Both Savea and Read changed their line - same Law as DHP infringes 10m downfield - but that isn't penalised.

I think this is more the key point. Decisions can always be 50/50 but between how the ruling was made (or referred to Nigel to be made) and how it its then reviewed; only s small segment of the play is reviewed rather than consideration for all circumstances its always going to cause issue.

Its more the process than the outcome.

@Phitzy - nice analysis!

 

[Lorenzo]

I'm so sick of feeling like we are always a little (or a lot) behind when it comes to the niggle and the mild cheating, like milking foul play penalties and living our lives offside.

If I was cheika I'd be working on crafting the dirtiest possible gameplan for the next time we face them. I don't mean grabbing their nuts or gouging their eyes, but pretty much everything else. I'm not suggesting it will make the required difference but if it even helps a little...

I'm also sick of the expectation that we are to treat the ABs like gods at every opportunity. Fuck them and their little dance. For all the banter about how our ignoring the haka in the 90s 'backfired' because we got beat afterwards - no one talks about how we constantly get beat whilst facing up to it. I reckon we go back to the sheds during it rather than be a prop in their pantomime.