T
Train Without a Station
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Didn't we cop a horrid beating in late 97 or 98 before rolling on to win the World Cup in 99?
New Zealand v Australia - Auckland - 23 August 2014
- Thread starter Hugh Jarse
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Didn't we cop a horrid beating in late 97 or 98 before rolling on to win the World Cup in 99?
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Not always. But one bad loss against the top ranked team doesn't mean the sky is falling. It does mean you aren't where you need to be yet though.
Richo
John Thornett (49)
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Why do we fall Bruce?
JRoss
Stan Wickham (3)
Ya think?...
Some may of bought the hype pre Bled2, mostly coming from jerno's and the Wobs themselves, but the majority of NZ'ers knew the AB's would come back ruthless, why? because the AB's themselves were angry with their lackluster performance Bled1 and that is what a champion side does, gets angry, gets mean and gets the job done.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
JRoss I don't agree with that.
The All Blacks were tested at times against England. The Wallabies since their last encounter against the All Blacks where they showed they were improved but still a distance off, racked up 7 consecutive wins - consistency, something which had alluded the Wallabies for not only Deans coaching, but Connolly and Jones.
I cannot cop that the All Blacks turned up in Sydney somewhat complacent and lacking motivation and then a sudden draw kicked them into action. In addition to this the NZ Super Rugby sides were knocked out of the finals by Australian teams.
The simple fact is in Sydney the All Blacks didn't play their best, and the Wallabies have to have been a factor in limiting them somewhat.
But they came in there knowing that they could be coming up against a stronger team than they did in 2013.
The All Blacks certainly improved their play in Auckland and the Wallabies failed to match there's. But don't try and sell me the line that all of a sudden these guys were angry from a draw as if the Wallabies in Sydney caught them off guard and they were just in cruise control. They may have not played their best, but a team that is pushed by their opponent seldom does.
The All Blacks were tested at times against England. The Wallabies since their last encounter against the All Blacks where they showed they were improved but still a distance off, racked up 7 consecutive wins - consistency, something which had alluded the Wallabies for not only Deans coaching, but Connolly and Jones.
I cannot cop that the All Blacks turned up in Sydney somewhat complacent and lacking motivation and then a sudden draw kicked them into action. In addition to this the NZ Super Rugby sides were knocked out of the finals by Australian teams.
The simple fact is in Sydney the All Blacks didn't play their best, and the Wallabies have to have been a factor in limiting them somewhat.
But they came in there knowing that they could be coming up against a stronger team than they did in 2013.
The All Blacks certainly improved their play in Auckland and the Wallabies failed to match there's. But don't try and sell me the line that all of a sudden these guys were angry from a draw as if the Wallabies in Sydney caught them off guard and they were just in cruise control. They may have not played their best, but a team that is pushed by their opponent seldom does.
FrankLind
Colin Windon (37)
Alternative viewpoint.
I think the gap between Aussie and NZ has widened since last year, and I think there is good chance it might widen further.
The one holy, unquestioned assumption about England was that they were now very close to the ABs. Bollocks. We smacked them in the end. They left more confused than ever about how to beat us. Not knowing their midfield and showing severe deficiencies in their forwards ball handling and how to finish.
-Our locks have gone up another notch,
-the Aarons continue to mature and grow their game,
-Ben Smith is better than Dagg,
-Kaino is better than Messam.
- Plus, at some point we have Dan Carter back.
-Dane Coles has improved enormously.
-Owen Franks appears to be developing a better running game, a
-and the much criticized hopeless scrummager Crockett is dealing with the new scrumming laws just fine (but of course we'll see against the Argies)
-Savea's subtle skills have improved (option taking)
The AB coaches always emphasize player growth and improving skill sets. This is what I am seeing.
Just as importantly the following players have not dropped off at all McCaw (surprise, surprise), Woodcock, Nonu, Conrad Smith.
Read is not as dominant as last year, but is certainly not fading.
Mealamu is fading, We have a problem at hooker.
Hansen has introduced the following players - Retallick, Coles, Luatua, Fekitoa, Crotty, Tuipolotu, Bird, Piutau, Cane, Todd, Moody, Faumuina, Sailli, and Savea, probably forgotten some others.
Sorry, bar maybe Hooper and Foley, I don't see the same progression in the Aussie team this year.
I think the gap between Aussie and NZ has widened since last year, and I think there is good chance it might widen further.
The one holy, unquestioned assumption about England was that they were now very close to the ABs. Bollocks. We smacked them in the end. They left more confused than ever about how to beat us. Not knowing their midfield and showing severe deficiencies in their forwards ball handling and how to finish.
-Our locks have gone up another notch,
-the Aarons continue to mature and grow their game,
-Ben Smith is better than Dagg,
-Kaino is better than Messam.
- Plus, at some point we have Dan Carter back.
-Dane Coles has improved enormously.
-Owen Franks appears to be developing a better running game, a
-and the much criticized hopeless scrummager Crockett is dealing with the new scrumming laws just fine (but of course we'll see against the Argies)
-Savea's subtle skills have improved (option taking)
The AB coaches always emphasize player growth and improving skill sets. This is what I am seeing.
Just as importantly the following players have not dropped off at all McCaw (surprise, surprise), Woodcock, Nonu, Conrad Smith.
Read is not as dominant as last year, but is certainly not fading.
Mealamu is fading, We have a problem at hooker.
Hansen has introduced the following players - Retallick, Coles, Luatua, Fekitoa, Crotty, Tuipolotu, Bird, Piutau, Cane, Todd, Moody, Faumuina, Sailli, and Savea, probably forgotten some others.
Sorry, bar maybe Hooper and Foley, I don't see the same progression in the Aussie team this year.
Deputy Van Halen
Larry Dwyer (12)
Unfortunately I don't disagree with a word of that. Our depth just isn't good enough at the moment, we need our best players fit, firing and competing for positions.
- Squeaky, TPN, Pocock, Genia, Cooper all need to unbreak themselves and sort their form out. Dan Palmer to find a delorean and go back to when his foot was whole.
- Higgers and Kev need to regain or reach their potential and Fardy to find that EOY tour form again. Palu to not go missing in bled games.
- A handful of class wingers that are actually, you know, wingers.
Then and only then can we expect to compete regularly at the AB level.
Bullrush
Geoff Shaw (53)
I honestly thought the Wallabies were going to get a hiding at Eden Park. Honestly. For me, there was a glaring lack of hard men in the pack, no real wingers and as I posted at a different stage, if you're continually looking to cover someone in defence, at some stage you end up one man short.
BTW, listening to a bit of Radio Sport in NZ last week, I wasn't the only AB fan thinking that the Wallabies would get done. Yes, there were a couple who thought the ABs might do it tough or even lose but the vibe from most fans was that it was going to be a nightmare for the Wallabies.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
As much as a bit crowing across the ditch grates with me, there is a liberal helping of truth. Bullrush, you were right in the end and well played for predicting it. I don't think too many of us saw that kind of thumping coming. There is no need for panic though. Unfortunately around here it's either "we'll never win another test match" or "we're going to be world champions next week" without a lot in between.
If nothing else, the weekend was a cold hard reality check of where we sit and the standard we need to reach (and surpass) if we're to climb the mountain again. Nothing can be done about it now and the focus has to be the Boks, because I think how we rebound against them will tell us a lot about how good this current Wallaby side is. If we get dusted again then I think the job is going to be very difficult to improve by the necessary amount to challenge at the RWC. If we win, then I think we're at least on the right path.
If nothing else, the weekend was a cold hard reality check of where we sit and the standard we need to reach (and surpass) if we're to climb the mountain again. Nothing can be done about it now and the focus has to be the Boks, because I think how we rebound against them will tell us a lot about how good this current Wallaby side is. If we get dusted again then I think the job is going to be very difficult to improve by the necessary amount to challenge at the RWC. If we win, then I think we're at least on the right path.
FrankLind
Colin Windon (37)
Pay players based on usefulness.
Hard-ass skilled forwards are the most useful players in a rugby game.
Therefore, outside of Folau and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).....
Moore, Hooper and Slipper need to be the top paid players in the side (leaving aside the fact the captain gets more)
Inconsistent x-factor players, those with discipline or temperament problems get paid a lot less.
Soft forwards, like Simmons, get paid less until they get "angry".
Hard-ass skilled forwards are the most useful players in a rugby game.
Therefore, outside of Folau and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).....
Moore, Hooper and Slipper need to be the top paid players in the side (leaving aside the fact the captain gets more)
Inconsistent x-factor players, those with discipline or temperament problems get paid a lot less.
Soft forwards, like Simmons, get paid less until they get "angry".
waiopehu oldboy
George Smith (75)
A few pages back there were some references to a high shot on Folau in the lead up to Savea's try. Still haven't seen it myself but Justin Marshall called it in commentary & more interestingly last night on Rugby Nation Willie Lose who was sideline said he heard the AR (didn't say which but I think it would've been Berry) talking yo Poite about it. The fact Poite didn't ask the TMO to look at it suggests Berry wasn't too worried about it esp as it was his call that put Simmons in the bin.
Scoey
Tony Shaw (54)
The tackle was one of the ones where the defender is coming from behind and to the side and is somewhat wrong footed by the attacker changing direction. The defender (Jane maybe?) seemed to jump and his arm went over one of Folau's shoulders across his chest and under the other shoulder.
The same sort of tackle gets penalised often and it surprised me that it didn't because the first contact was above the shoulders and he ended up across the neck and head of Folau. Terrible call not to at least review.
Not sure where the AR was as he may not have kept up with Folau's break but if he didn't have a clear view then even more reason to review it.
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The same sort of tackle gets penalised often and it surprised me that it didn't because the first contact was above the shoulders and he ended up across the neck and head of Folau. Terrible call not to at least review.
Not sure where the AR was as he may not have kept up with Folau's break but if he didn't have a clear view then even more reason to review it.
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T
Train Without a Station
Guest
That's the most important thing. The Simmons yellow was a penalty at most and that should have been a penalty.
If the officials got them right, they merely would have delayed the inevitable, not altered the result.
waiopehu oldboy
George Smith (75)
My take on this is that someone has mentioned the tackle to Poite who has then asked his AR what if anything he saw. Unless the AR said "nah, all good" you'd think Poite would've asked the TMO to review for foul play. That he didn't & that no one from the Wobs camp has mentioned it even in passing suggests to me that it looked worse on TV than it was.
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