New Zealand v Australia - Auckland - 23 August 2014

[Quick Hands]

Really should have learnt after the first test. Any number of posters here were willing to show him the error of his ways. Too late now.

I think I said the same thing last week. Super rugby you have 14 weeks to get your selections right, in Bledisloe you have 2 weeks and it's all over.

 

[Quick Hands]

IF we win in Brisbane and payper was just as bad as this French bloke. I isn't see us get away with anything. They got away with a lot.

Actually I take that back. I watched last week in a small screen with no sound at a party. The only thing I thought he missed was the second lady scrum of the game. Should of been a wallabies penalty.

We'll haved to agree to disagree about Poite last night. I thouht he was good. He controlled the game well, let it flow, got the big calls right, didn't show any partiality to either team and allowed the 30 players on the field to decided the outcome.

That's about as good as you are going to get from a referee at any level of the game. There are 100s of decisions in every game where the ref can blow his whistle or let play go on. Usually they're 50/50 offside or breakdown calls and often depend on where the ref is standing or looking at a particular split second.

If you're waiting around for the ref who gets every single call right, you'll be waiting a long time, because he hasn't been born yet .

 

[Pfitzy]

There is something to be said for sticking with a team that pulled off a draw against highly fancied opposition. That is good coaching.

But two games now, we've not scored a try with Beale at 10, despite having 65% and 44% of the ball respectively.

Stand too deep - get ball, shovel on or run into contact and turn it over. Standard operation for Beale at 10, unless its a few phases in and the pack has dominated ala Super Rugby this year.

And the guy orchestrating those first few phases for the Tahs was Foley, before Beale stepped in and finished the deal, if required.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Some time since the game finished but I'd like to see your reasoning for saying Skelton was instrumental in Hooper's try. Saw big Will hit a ruck at 100mph on one occasion but otherwise the ABs kept him completely under control; just like the rest of the team.

Fact 1. Big Willie came on: 64:09
Fact 2. Capt James T. Hooper scored almost immediately: 64:23

Correlation may not equal causation.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

There is something to be said for sticking with a team that pulled off a draw against highly fancied opposition. That is good coaching.

The logic of your point is obvious.
The problem is that good coaching would not have picked that first team and the team that should have been picked might have won.
There was simply never any need to pick Beale at 10.
Why take the punt up front?
Low percentage play.
And to pick up Barbarian's much earlier point: Beale is the miracle solution. Why don't we pick the player with the better basic requirements at 10 - the bloke who can straighten, control and challenge the line. Beale looked like at 15 year old trying to avoid contact as he fell off his passes last night.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Sometimes I wonder if I'll ever see the Wallabies lifting the Bledisloe Cup or winning a match against the All Blacks at Eden Park.
<snip>

There is no Eden Park hoodoo. There is no aura.

The Wallabies played very poorly and the NZ Rugby Team played much better. Simple.

Until the Wobs get more consistent, they will not win the Bledisloe or win in Auckland.

Out thought + out executed = out played.

 

[Dan54]

As a proud Wallabies supporter, like many others on this forum, I would usually find a few positives out of a match to make things seem better, but last night was very, very ordinary.

I don't mean to be a dick and bag them out, but seriously! You know, I was reading a great article by Bob Dwyer (I'll try to find it) about how important the basics were when he was coaching, i.e. catch and pass, body position. And all this 'flare' was completely redundant if you can even execute the fundamentals.

The amount of drop ball tonight was ridiculous. Every time the Wallabies were putting pressure on..a shitty mistake or turnover. Just so bloody frustrating.

.

Filth a very good point, Hansen said that the All Blacks mainly worked on passing and catching the ball after last week. I think that is more important than worrying about changing Hotels or staying out on field at halftime(so they can stay in the moment?), perhaps even at this level teams may have to work on basics.

 

[Quick Hands]

The logic of your point is obvious.
The problem is that good coaching would not have picked that first team and the team that should have been picked might have won.
There was simply never any need to pick Beale at 10.
Why take the punt up front?
Low percentage play.
And to pick up Barbarian's much earlier point: Beale is the miracle solution. Why don't we pick the player with the better basic requirements at 10 - the bloke who can straighten, control and challenge the line. Beale looked like at 15 year old trying to avoid contact as he fell off his passes last night.

Beale looks brilliant when he's used how the Waratahs used him this year. A secondary playmaker role who slots in as 1st receiver off phase ball when the defensive line is disorganised. He seems to struggle at 10 when he has to run every play from start to finish. This has been brutally exposed over the past 2 weeks, but is hardly new information.

 

[FrankLind]

Not sure this is the thread for Australia's rugby player numbers to be discussed, but the numbers are misleading on their own.

In a population of 23.5 million, Australia has 297,000 registered players (~1% of the population).

New Zealand, with a population of 4.5 million, has 147,000 registered players (~3% of the population).

Since you brought it up.... you have more players than us. What's percentages got to do with anything?

 

[Bardon]

Filth a very good point, Hansen said that the All Blacks mainly worked on passing and catching the ball after last week. I think that is more important than worrying about changing Hotels or staying out on field at halftime(so they can stay in the moment?), perhaps even at this level teams may have to work on basics.

One of the things that made me very happy about Ireland progress under Schmidt was hearing the players talk about the emphasis Joe put on basic skills.

They said any error in basic skills, body position etc. was punished, with laps etc., as Schmidt's philosophy is that if the players can't get basics right in training then they're less likely to execute under pressure in a test match.

 

[Bakkies' Index Finger]

Nothing sums up the problem with Australian rugby better than the debate taking place on this forum as a result of last night's game.

The Wallabies got absolutely smashed up front, as we have for the past 12 years. Yet the debate on this forum seems to be who should be wearing the 10 jersey?

It wouldn't matter if Dan Carter in his prime was playing 10 for the Wallaies last night - until we can compete with the All Blacks at the breakdown and consistently win our own ball we won't be in the contest.

 

[FrankLind]

You need (a lot) more mongrel in the locks, even if you sacrifice a bit of skill to get it.

Why the hell is Kane Douglas not picked in the French series?
Was it indicated, before he chose to go to Leinster, that he wouldn't make it?
What is wrong with his game?

 

[Bardon]

You need (a lot) more mongrel in the locks, even if you sacrifice a bit of skill to get it.

Why the hell is Kane Douglas not picked?
What is wrong with his game?

I think he's not being picked because he's signed for us up here at Leinster so won't be in the Wobs RWC plans.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

It wouldn't matter if Dan Carter in his prime was playing 10 for the Wallaies last night - until we can compete with the All Blacks at the breakdown and consistently win our own ball we won't be in the contest.

Not necessarily.
A 10 can have the most profound impact on where that breakdown takes place and where it takes place has a significant influence on whether you can compete.
However - the problem is basic skills and its across the board and through the ranks.

 

[USARugger]

Nothing sums up the problem with Australian rugby better than the debate taking place on this forum as a result of last night's game.

The Wallabies got absolutely smashed up front, as we have for the past 12 years. Yet the debate on this forum seems to be who should be wearing the 10 jersey?

It wouldn't matter if Dan Carter in his prime was playing 10 for the Wallaies last night - until we can compete with the All Blacks at the breakdown and consistently win our own ball we won't be in the contest.

Erm, I've read dozens of posts lamenting the forwards and just as many identifying individuals in the pack who performed poorly.

This is why many folks are talking about it.

The selection of Beale at 10 was baffling and the most controversial aspect of this entire Bledisloe series. To top it off he's a particularly polarizing figure as it is.

You are trying to find connections that don't exist to draft a narrative which doesn't match reality.

 

[mark_s]

I only watched the first 15 mins last night and so have just watched the rest.

first half

Wow ABs were sublime. They dominated us while Richie was off, which was a huge warning sign and probably a huge physiological blow for the wobbs.

Wallabies often caught in no mans land in defence. looking for an intercept or big hit? either way not trusting their teammates, getting isolated and creating space for the ABs. No composure by Wobbs, same goes with ball in hand

AB's always have someone in support and make good decisions under pressure. They regularly turn half breaks into major blow outs.

second half

Wobbs have a better start,but oh no, don't find touch from a scrum penalty. Such a stupid mistake and a game changer (not that it was needed)

Wobb mistake, turn over, AB breakout and try time. Too easy. Again decision making and support play impeccable by the ABs

No trench warfare here. Its 7s type rugby by both sides. How does Coles chip ahead so well? What confidence. With the Ab's it clinical. With us, its poor execution

finally, some nice direct build up and its a try for izzy. Phipps and Foley have straightened and settled us down (a little).

Great individual try by Hooper

All in all, great performance by AB. They beat anyone playing at that speed, with so few mistakes and with such great support play.

For us, too many mistakes. Some forced, but head less chook syndrome accounts for plenty too. Beale at 10 has failed, it was a high stakes selection so its no great surprise. Can't underestimate the impact of having someone who settles the team down and gets us going forward rather than sidewards.

IF only it had of rained last night, maybe the score would have been more respectable.

 

[Bardon]

10 is definitely a big issue. Not having either half back spot nailed on less than a year out from the RWC would scare the shit out of me if I was a Wobs fan.

The lack of grunt in the pack and the poor basics are also a worry. There's no doubt that when things click under Link the Wallabies are devastating. But putting 10+ tries on the minors in your RWC pool won't mean anything if it all goes to shit under pressure against Wales or England.

If I was an Aussie I'd want to see a more settled side that can work on their basics and cohesion. When more of the team are doing the basics right then it's much easier to play with higher intensity.

In my opinion you need to establish that core group that sets the standard for anyone looking to break into the team. Also you need your pack to be exactly that a pack. Not a group of individual guys who at times look like they met for the first time in the car park.

To me your pack is similar to England's under Martin Johnson. There's a few guys who are nailed on but for most positions there are a number of guys who are very similar in ability. For England this lead to calls for whoever played well for their club the previous weekend to be picked. This resulted in England being inconsistent and their pack being demolished when it mattered.

When Lancaster came in he picked the guys he trusted to deliver his game plan and slowly improved the pack. Once he had that done he was able to improve their depth by introducing guys to a mainly settled pack. They're still not the ABs but I'd back Lancaster's England to smash MJ's England.

Link needs to do something similar in a much shorter time.

 

[Pfitzy]

IF only it had of rained last night, maybe the score would have been more respectable.

Losing by that much in the rain - and don't kid yourself that it would have kept the score down with the ABs in that kind of form - would have been much, MUCH worse.

Nothing sums up the problem with Australian rugby better than the debate taking place on this forum as a result of last night's game.

The Wallabies got absolutely smashed up front, as we have for the past 12 years. Yet the debate on this forum seems to be who should be wearing the 10 jersey?

It wouldn't matter if Dan Carter in his prime was playing 10 for the Wallaies last night - until we can compete with the All Blacks at the breakdown and consistently win our own ball we won't be in the contest.

We've covered the forwards with a simple sentence or two: not hard enough, not physical enough, not good enough.

But we had 65% of the ball last week and didn't score a try. We had 44% of the ball this week, and with Beale OUT of the primary playmaking role, scored 2.

Wallaby teams in the past were used to being happy if they got parity up front, because our back line could win games. Nothing to me suggests this backline - with two dysfunctional halves - can win anything.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

When more of the team are doing the basics right then it's much easier to play with higher intensity.

spot on.
But not only that - when you get the basics right you automatically play with greater intensity.
That was the difference in the ABs between games: basics poor Bled #1 = intensity lacking etc etc

 

[It is what it is]

We can't fix everything overnight.
How do you eat an elephant - one bite at a time.
Probably start with;
Basics
Body height, leg drive, running straight, picking the right players in their correct positions.
Defending the 5m line out.
World rugby knows that the Wallabies are vulnerable to the driving maul off a line out, and it's been that way for too long. AB's, SA and England will continue to crucify us here if we don't.
Learning to adjust to the opposition's game plan during a game.
The AB' attacked with short pass rushes in the forwards and sideline width ball in the backs. This was very different to the 1st Test and resulting in them getting behind us in close, and far too many overlaps in the backs.
We didn't seem to ever adjust in any way.