New Zealand v Australia - Auckland - 23 August 2014

[Train Without a Station]

Pfitzy, I'm intrigued how Carter is a good worker, great ethic but just lacking technique but Simmons is utterly useless.

Considering they deliver similar stats week in week out and are born 5 months apart the same description could apply to both of them.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Also worth remembering Barrett had come off the bench so was pretty fresh, compared to Folau who had battled for the full game.

If Barrett mowed him down that would be fine. Folau stopped and stepped in when Barrett showed him the sideline. Not acceptable for a back 3 player.

 

[Braveheart81]

Palu was anonymous last night. We needed him to make a big steam rolling run or hit to pump up the boys and he did sweet fuck all with impact.

But the fact remains he's been the strongest performing super rugby 8 and got the job done a week ago. One decent cameo after a year of mediocrity is no reason to think Higginbotham would be any better. He would have had more impact on the super rugby season if that was the case.

Palu topped the tackling count for the Wallabies last night with 11 in the 55 minutes he played.

Maybe if someone like Carter who is credited with 2 tackles had made more Palu would have got through more work in attack.

 

[barbarian]

Not acceptable? Jeez that's a bit much.

Folau tried an in-and-away, and when it was clear that wasn't going to work, he decided to hold the ball up and take contact, in the hope of breaking the tackle, or at least securing possession for another phase.

But of course he should have just gassed him on the outside, run under the posts then slotted a quicky drop goal conversion. That's what I would have done, anyway.
.

 

[Quick Hands]

If Barrett mowed him down that would be fine. Folau stopped and stepped in when Barrett showed him the sideline. Not acceptable for a back 3 player.

folau had a number of options - and they all required him to maintain full speed:

- keep going and try to beat the defence on the outside
- step off his left foot at full speed in an attempt to wrong foot the cover
- kick ahead for himself and chase

Like many modern players, he was carrying the ball in the wrong arm so couldn't use his fend - the basic skill of changing arms while running at speed seems untaught at any level of the game (same in league).

I was really surpised when he basically stopped and made himself and easy mark.

 

[Pfitzy]

Pfitzy, I'm intrigued how Carter is a good worker, great ethic but just lacking technique but Simmons is utterly useless.

Considering they deliver similar stats week in week out and are born 5 months apart the same description could apply to both of them.

I'd like to know how you think stats are more than a valid starting point, Scott Allen.

EDIT: actually, that's unfair. I wasn't picking on Simmons' work rate. Going back to my original point: I'm picking on the fact that he is clearly strong and technically sound enough to work in the engine room of a scrum. So why can't he provide that impact around the field?

And the fact he gave away a stupid penalty that resulted in a yellow card.

 

[ChargerWA]

Folau for his success still strikes me as someone who doubts himself. From his body language, he does at times capitulate in one on one situations.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I was really surpised when he basically stopped and made himself and easy mark.

He didn't know it was the 5th tackle.
He's looking like a flat track bully.

 

[barbarian]

He's looking like a flat track bully.

You talking about Folau here? Whaaaat?

 

[Train Without a Station]

I'd like to know how you think stats are more than a valid starting point, Scott Allen.

I've clearly just asked how when two players have similar levels of Involvement, the one you like is just young and hardworking but just needs better technique because he isn't dominating contact whilst the one you dislike is is soft and useless despite the same short comings. We get it, you don't like Simmons mate.

 

[Pfitzy]

I've clearly just asked how when two players have similar levels of Involvement, the one you like is just young and hardworking but just needs better technique because he isn't dominating contact whilst the one you dislike is is soft and useless despite the same short comings. We get it, you don't like Simmons mate.

One of them is in his first year of Test Rugby.

The other has 41 Caps.

Your move.

 

[Train Without a Station]

They're 5 months apart mate. You can't excuse one for their age when they are both born in the same year.

Also Simmons is in the matfield role and Carter in the bakkies role so if anything he should be more physical. Much like Thorn was to whitelock and vickerman to sharpe.

 

[qwerty51]

Ha! Hayne benefits from the NRL having the worst defensive alignment of either code. Honestly, the tripe their backlines serve up on D makes me wonder why the bother kicking for tries.

Geez hate on NRL all you want but Hayne is the best athlete across Aus/NZ in either code.

 

[cyclopath]

He didn't know it was the 5th tackle.
He's looking like a flat track bully.

I think you're being a bit harsh there. Look at his number of runs this week and last, and the metres gained. This week - 10 runs, 180m (from one stats site - I don't treat them as gospel). Against the best team in the world.
He has some issues with decision making at times - when to offload, when to kick, when to just go, but his ability to make metres through the best teams is not in doubt.
Over on the Fern, he is well regarded by many Kiwis, but many also have reservations about his all round game, compared to, say, Ben Smith. If Folau stays in rugby, given a couple more years, he'll be pretty damn complete.
But he isn't a flat-track bully.

 

[cyclopath]

He didn't know it was the 5th tackle.
He's looking like a flat track bully.

Although I accept you might be semi-serious at best. No?

 

[Gnostic]

For those complaining about Folau's outright pace, that what happens when you're 100+ kgs. He's not going to be beat any 90kg players in a sprint.

Lomu , Tuigamala, mortlock , caucaunibuca.............

 

[Train Without a Station]

It was just disappointing. Mostly because it's not just izzy. It's become an annoying common trait to make the same poor decision amongst Australian back 3 players.

 

[cyclopath]

Lomu , Tuigamala, mortlock , caucaunibuca.....

Lomu was very fast when young and could show you up outside, Tuigamala was more brute than outright pace, although not slow, Mortlock quick enough but direct, CauCau was fast when lighter and held pace when swerving, but not so much when 100kg+ later.
None of them were blinding fast as their greatest asset, I would say. Still all bloody good.

 

[Pfitzy]

They're 5 months apart mate. You can't excuse one for their age when they are both born in the same year.

I don't excuse anyone for their age. In fact I don't think I've mentioned it.

I give Carter leeway for being in his first year of Test Rugby, and having to make up some technical ground as a rookie, as observed in last night's Test, and last week where he also ran a bit high.

I mark Simmons more harshly because he has nearly twice the number of provincial caps, is a Super Rugby premiership player with two extra years as a pro up his sleeve, and is on his way to a half century of Test Caps by the end of the year.

He's technically good at set piece, without doubt, but he can't get his 115kg frame to have impact around the field? Why is that? And why won't you argue the point beyond "he's the Matfield to Carter's Botha". Which is bullshit because Matfield packed loosehead and as a result was more involved in running open spaces.

Simmons packs tighthead, so he's doing more work at set piece, granted. I don't expect his work rate to be higher than anyone except the tighthead prop.

No, I don't like aspects of his play - he has risen markedly in my estimation at scrum time this year and his lineout work is solid on our ball. But anyone who can pack at tight head prop, yet not provide an effective impact around the park, is missing something in their setup, and it needs adjustment.

 

[Train Without a Station]

He has had impact in his involvement at times in fact, but it's hard to see when you are ignoring them. But that's not the type of player he is. He's a high work rate set piece orientated player. He regularly is in the top half of the tackle count.

Is he perfect no? Should he improve his work in contact? Yes. So should every player though.

Your problem is that he isn't a Kane Douglas, when that's not who he is picked to be.

Oh and his line out work needs to improve. We lost throws and he didn't make a steal. As the bloke running the line out, he needs to take the blame for that.