Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Higgers is a bit like the forward equivalent of beale..........
Makes impact off the bench, but too much of a liability to start.............
New Zealand v Australia - Auckland - 23 August 2014
- Thread starter Hugh Jarse
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Higgers is a bit like the forward equivalent of beale..........
Makes impact off the bench, but too much of a liability to start.............
KOB1987
John Eales (66)
possibly..he's our no. 2 fullback and he has wing attributes..better in 23 than 22 is my opinion though..
KOB1987
John Eales (66)
well given Fardy's form I'd go with McCalman then..
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
His form?
Fardy was excellent against the French, and fairly decent last week after his early penalties............
The only necessary changes are in the halves, otherwise the rest of the team simply needs to do better.
waiopehu oldboy
George Smith (75)
Catching the ball cleanly but then losing it in contact is pretty much the same as just dropping the thing cold, isn't it?
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
Not happy with the way he was unable to beat Beaugan Barrett, one on one, last night - with a head start and tonnes of space, both outside and inside.
With a world class outside back, that should have been a try under the posts (after crossing the line out wide) by anyones money.
KOB1987
John Eales (66)
I actually don't dispute the latter point but Fardy has been far from excellent at any time this season..not awful, but he has had a dose of complacency as though he is a certain selection so if a stint on the bench has the desired effect then just fucking do it..
KOB1987
John Eales (66)
agreed, should have pinned his ears back and run straight over the top of him..his tackling reputation is worse than Beale's..
waiopehu oldboy
George Smith (75)
Hard to run over the top of a bloke who's chasing you down from behind lol but must say I was stunned that he didn't manage to score that, possibly in re-bulking from his AFL body shape he's lost a yard of pace? Credit where credit's due for Beaugan though, that was one hell of a chase-down, like a jolly swagman chasing down a jumbuck he was.
Oldschool
Jim Clark (26)
Well Izzy sort of did beat him, he fell over while he was running over the top of Beaudy as Beaudy was doing a dead ant impersonisation.
Pfitzy
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Before I get wound up: if you're going to pick on some of my points, please quote JUST THE BITS YOU WANT TO ADDRESS. Regurgitating this post in its entirety will get tiresome quite quickly (I realise the wags among you will agree that posts by me of any length are tiresome 
)
If you don't understand cut n paste, step away from the keyboard and no-one will suffer.
If you agree with me by and large, just click "Like". Yes I am an attention whore, but it saves you quoting the whole post and then typing:
^^^^^^ Agree. Pfitzy is the fucking horse-cocked stud muffin of a SUPERMAN GENIUS LORD! I think its in my best interests to immediately give him access to my bank account and make free with my hot female companion(s)!
Don't get me wrong - I'm flattered. But giving your lady friend(s) away to people just ain't right. Send pictures.
On to the rugby.
Haven't watched a replay. Not sure I've got the stomach to be honest. But I've been doing some reflection while out at Narrabeen Lakes today, which was a fucking top day for a party in the park BTW.
Time to board the Truth Train everyone. Some of you are going to be on very uncomfortable seats, but just grit your teeth, bear down hard, and we'll all get through this.
I'm glad we got thrashed, insofar as I'm glad we didn't get beaten by a controversial call, or drop a certain try at the death. The physical domination we experienced will have impressed itself on the frontal lobe (figuratively and physically) of every player involved last night, and hopefully given them the understanding of what is required between now and the Boks game in two weeks.
I think in discussing the players, it is clear to keep one thing in mind: I'm not giving them number ratings, because Einstein's Theory of Relativity would probably demand at least one of them gets a 6, and I'm hurting too much to give any of the bastards more than a 5.
Also, across the board our contact in defense was too many arms, not enough shoulders. The alignment was also crap, but I'll deal with that under leadership.
1 Slipper - consistently good to excellent. The 120-odd people who have down-voted him on the rankings have no idea just how much he's achieving by not only giving our scrum a solid platform (and getting the upper hand occasionally), but also putting in a mountain of work around the park. If the other forwards had the work rate he and Hooper possess, we wouldn't be talking about a mess.
2 Charles - poor prick. When will this curse for hookers end?
3 Kepu - scrummed well when we had a pack, but around the park was just not noticeable.
4 Simmons - was notable, for all the wrong reasons at one point. We conceded 14 points when he was off for an offence that was middle of the road, but ultimately as stupid as the "give one away at lineout time each week" he's known for. Other than that, I scream this question to the rugby gods every time I see this guy play: for a bloke who can lock down or shift forward a scrum so bloody well, how come he is so utterly flaccid around the park? Why, rugby gods, WHY?
5 Carter - unhappy chappy. Too upright in defence and attack like last week. He was the victim of the just-chuck-it-wide policy before Savea's try, when he got stripped instead of securing the ball. Not questioning his work ethic, but his technique in contact. He's a good kid, and a hard worker, but he got shown up badly.
6 Fardy - really struggling to keep his mongrel on the right side of the line. Its hard to be the onball enforcer in a forward pack that is getting blown off the park, but he is just not picking his moment to get in and niggle at the ball, getting pinged way too much.
7 Hooper - getting criticism in parts for not being David Pocockwhich is just fucking weird, given they're two different humans. Let's stick with what we have, and that is a guy who isn't a traditional fetcher, but a terrific link man and ball carrier - something our pack lacked last night from other members. His leadership was the issue last night, because our D line was absolutely fucking dire, and no-one was fixing it up. Great try, but needed to pull the boys in line and remind them what the fuck they were out there for.
8 Palu - very quiet game after a good performance in Sydney. Just didn't impose himself and was one of many forwards shooting out and disrupting our defence, chasing a big hit. Also dropped some ball taking a peek. Looked injured from about the 30 minute mark to me.
9 White - what can I say that hasn't already been said? Cut down his box kicking count, but not the shittiness of their execution. That is reason enough to drop him out of the XXIII and bring Burgess to the bench. And what the fuck was with him trying to yellow card himself? Still, it was his passing - WHICH CANNOT BE BLAMED ON THE WEATHER THIS WEEK - that continues to be sub-standard. Going behind the man to leave us flat-footed and vulnerable.
I just had a thought on this which I'll expand on now I'm thinking about Beale's performance.
10 Beale - I, and a lot of others, have been critical of Beale the last two weeks. Standing too deep and crabbing sideways, shoveling the ball on instead of taking it to the line. I think I've sorted the depth problem out: he's used to running onto Phipps passes from depth in order to accelerate. White is throwing it at the man, not at the target. This may help address the crabbing to a degree, but his first move when passing the ball on is still to step sideways and back. I'm now briefly contemplating Beale at 10 and Phipps at 9 - aaaaaaaand now that moment has passed.
11 Horne - put on a couple of good shots, made a couple of nice little runs. But for some reason we played up an in on defence despite being outflanked a number of times, and cross-kicked half to death. I'm really not sure what to make of this - tactics should have been adjusted as soon as that first kick went in, to make them look for something else on attack. I'm not saying you should just react to your opposition, but on defence you don't have many options.
12 To'omua - not a very constructive night for him. Thought he was unlucky on one of the touch finders, but then he's recently had issues with finding touch because he gets a bit greedy. As Bob said on the front page: he's not really making much play.
13 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) - nice hit from Palu. Quiet otherwise, except for cleaning up the odd mess. He will probably go back to the wing with Kuridrani coming into 13 and putting a big body through the line. He's not able to contribute in this Wallaby setup because Beale isn't Foley and To'omua isn't Beale, and our forward pack isn't Robinson, TPN, Kepu, JacPot, Douglas, Dennis, Hooper, and Palu.
14 McCabe - badly found out and now injured, the poor bastard. Sorry mate but you've got your life to think about. Its a shame to say it, but I think this is probably a blessing for both Patty and the rest of us. Better than getting stretchered off and never walking again.
15 Folau - standing too deep on the Kiwi short kicks. A few people have been surprised he got run down, but I've never thought he had a great top speed. But FFS he should have fucking speed bumped Barrett though, palmed Smith, or set up the pop/offload.
16 Hanson - I thought for a bloke coming on and expecting to play three quarters of a game he did a good job. Certainly when our scrum was made up of 8 guys he did a good job on our feed, and got around the park to a level I expect of him. I honestly think he's a better hooker than Fainga'a.
17 Cowan - did he get on? No? Then whey the fuck isn't Robinson there for emergencies if we're not worried about mobility or any of that shit. Yeah OK he's a "reserve" but you need your bench to be capable enough at their job that they come on and lift the team. Slipper was going great guns, but fresh legs should be at least that good.
18 Alexander - I would have liked to see more of him. This and the Cowan situation make me think about the criticism Deans copped for his use of the bench. Why are these guys there unless they can inject sustained pace and aggression in the last quarter?
19 Skelton - very poor from him I thought. Dropped a couple of pills, and got smacked on the advantage line, going past it once then not placing the ball correctly. Again, not much time to judge him on.
20 Higginbotham - added a lot with his pace, in combination with Phipps and Foley. Probably deserves a start based on that.
21 Phipps - really upped the tempo when he came on, and put the ball out in front of the runners, basically forcing us to go forward, and with enough pace that the defence had to hesitate or miss the intended target. This is what good halfback play is about - getting the game moving.
22 Foley - with Phipps and Higginbotham, really lit the joint up in terms of our attack. Simple, direct, ball in motion stuff and good support lines.
23 Kuridrani - added a bit of grunt when we came on, particularly as our halves had stopped throwing the ball away and operating well behind the advantage line. Will start at 13 against the Boks.
The ABs were definitely a few notches above what they delivered last week, but in part that's because they had the ball early and refused to give it up. Last week they kicked most of it away and dropped some more.
To look at the game and say we weren't "mongrel" enough is to ignore the fact that we could gain no ascendancy while defending.
You simply can't win without the ball, and while you can put defensive pressure on, if your technical alignment isn't good enough, you can't sustain it. Defending is largely a reactionary thing - you must react to your opponent, because anticipation results more often than not in an offside penalty. Could we have had better line speed? Definitely. Could we have been more aggressive in contact? Yes.
But shelve your talk of "passion" please. It looked like a spineless performance, but if you take the first dozen tackles we made or missed, and turned them into shoudlers on bodies rather than flailing hands, then we can salvage some momentum from that. These guys don't lack passion: they lacked a bit of smarts about getting off the floor and getting their technique right in order to stay in the competition.
The situation is then compounded by our attacking basically putting the ball in areas that we didn't have the right numbers at ruck to retain our ball, then deliver it with speed. Why go all the way across the pitch to Sam Carter, when he's got McCabe only in support, and 6 All Blacks to beat? That is asking for a turnover and a try down the other end.
Where is the right to go wide earned in this tactic? Yes the ABs were bloody aggressive in close, but going wide was a simple recipe for being unable to deal with a turnover if it happens. Keep the ball, apply the pressure. It was really interesting to note that the contribution of Phipps, Foley, and Higgers was to breach the line and run the ball up the centre of the field to gain ground.
The last area I'd like to cover is about the reality of rugby in the professional era for Australia. People are saying we don't have the cattle in the forwards compared to the ABs, and that we should fix THAT problem before blaming the halves.
I think we can all agree that simply changing personnel is not going to correct things in the short term - we have to persist with what we've got until the pathways get better at delivering a broader base to this talent pyramid.
I also think the point people are missing from last night in particular, is that if the halves aren't performing, the ability for your forwards to impose themselves on the game is extremely difficult, particularly when you're having to reset behind the advantage line because of poor passing, excessive depth, and bad decision making.
Let's not forget this is a TEAM, and while the old adages about forwards winning games are largely accurate, they don't tell the whole story.
)If you don't understand cut n paste, step away from the keyboard and no-one will suffer.
If you agree with me by and large, just click "Like". Yes I am an attention whore, but it saves you quoting the whole post and then typing:
^^^^^^ Agree. Pfitzy is the fucking horse-cocked stud muffin of a SUPERMAN GENIUS LORD! I think its in my best interests to immediately give him access to my bank account and make free with my hot female companion(s)!
Don't get me wrong - I'm flattered. But giving your lady friend(s) away to people just ain't right. Send pictures.
On to the rugby.
Haven't watched a replay. Not sure I've got the stomach to be honest. But I've been doing some reflection while out at Narrabeen Lakes today, which was a fucking top day for a party in the park BTW.
Time to board the Truth Train everyone. Some of you are going to be on very uncomfortable seats, but just grit your teeth, bear down hard, and we'll all get through this.
I'm glad we got thrashed, insofar as I'm glad we didn't get beaten by a controversial call, or drop a certain try at the death. The physical domination we experienced will have impressed itself on the frontal lobe (figuratively and physically) of every player involved last night, and hopefully given them the understanding of what is required between now and the Boks game in two weeks.
I think in discussing the players, it is clear to keep one thing in mind: I'm not giving them number ratings, because Einstein's Theory of Relativity would probably demand at least one of them gets a 6, and I'm hurting too much to give any of the bastards more than a 5.
Also, across the board our contact in defense was too many arms, not enough shoulders. The alignment was also crap, but I'll deal with that under leadership.
1 Slipper - consistently good to excellent. The 120-odd people who have down-voted him on the rankings have no idea just how much he's achieving by not only giving our scrum a solid platform (and getting the upper hand occasionally), but also putting in a mountain of work around the park. If the other forwards had the work rate he and Hooper possess, we wouldn't be talking about a mess.
2 Charles - poor prick. When will this curse for hookers end?
3 Kepu - scrummed well when we had a pack, but around the park was just not noticeable.
4 Simmons - was notable, for all the wrong reasons at one point. We conceded 14 points when he was off for an offence that was middle of the road, but ultimately as stupid as the "give one away at lineout time each week" he's known for. Other than that, I scream this question to the rugby gods every time I see this guy play: for a bloke who can lock down or shift forward a scrum so bloody well, how come he is so utterly flaccid around the park? Why, rugby gods, WHY?
5 Carter - unhappy chappy. Too upright in defence and attack like last week. He was the victim of the just-chuck-it-wide policy before Savea's try, when he got stripped instead of securing the ball. Not questioning his work ethic, but his technique in contact. He's a good kid, and a hard worker, but he got shown up badly.
6 Fardy - really struggling to keep his mongrel on the right side of the line. Its hard to be the onball enforcer in a forward pack that is getting blown off the park, but he is just not picking his moment to get in and niggle at the ball, getting pinged way too much.
7 Hooper - getting criticism in parts for not being David Pocock
which is just fucking weird, given they're two different humans. Let's stick with what we have, and that is a guy who isn't a traditional fetcher, but a terrific link man and ball carrier - something our pack lacked last night from other members. His leadership was the issue last night, because our D line was absolutely fucking dire, and no-one was fixing it up. Great try, but needed to pull the boys in line and remind them what the fuck they were out there for.8 Palu - very quiet game after a good performance in Sydney. Just didn't impose himself and was one of many forwards shooting out and disrupting our defence, chasing a big hit. Also dropped some ball taking a peek. Looked injured from about the 30 minute mark to me.
9 White - what can I say that hasn't already been said? Cut down his box kicking count, but not the shittiness of their execution. That is reason enough to drop him out of the XXIII and bring Burgess to the bench. And what the fuck was with him trying to yellow card himself? Still, it was his passing - WHICH CANNOT BE BLAMED ON THE WEATHER THIS WEEK - that continues to be sub-standard. Going behind the man to leave us flat-footed and vulnerable.
I just had a thought on this which I'll expand on now I'm thinking about Beale's performance.
10 Beale - I, and a lot of others, have been critical of Beale the last two weeks. Standing too deep and crabbing sideways, shoveling the ball on instead of taking it to the line. I think I've sorted the depth problem out: he's used to running onto Phipps passes from depth in order to accelerate. White is throwing it at the man, not at the target. This may help address the crabbing to a degree, but his first move when passing the ball on is still to step sideways and back. I'm now briefly contemplating Beale at 10 and Phipps at 9 - aaaaaaaand now that moment has passed.
11 Horne - put on a couple of good shots, made a couple of nice little runs. But for some reason we played up an in on defence despite being outflanked a number of times, and cross-kicked half to death. I'm really not sure what to make of this - tactics should have been adjusted as soon as that first kick went in, to make them look for something else on attack. I'm not saying you should just react to your opposition, but on defence you don't have many options.
12 To'omua - not a very constructive night for him. Thought he was unlucky on one of the touch finders, but then he's recently had issues with finding touch because he gets a bit greedy. As Bob said on the front page: he's not really making much play.
13 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) - nice hit from Palu. Quiet otherwise, except for cleaning up the odd mess. He will probably go back to the wing with Kuridrani coming into 13 and putting a big body through the line. He's not able to contribute in this Wallaby setup because Beale isn't Foley and To'omua isn't Beale, and our forward pack isn't Robinson, TPN, Kepu, JacPot, Douglas, Dennis, Hooper, and Palu.
14 McCabe - badly found out and now injured, the poor bastard. Sorry mate but you've got your life to think about. Its a shame to say it, but I think this is probably a blessing for both Patty and the rest of us. Better than getting stretchered off and never walking again.
15 Folau - standing too deep on the Kiwi short kicks. A few people have been surprised he got run down, but I've never thought he had a great top speed. But FFS he should have fucking speed bumped Barrett though, palmed Smith, or set up the pop/offload.
16 Hanson - I thought for a bloke coming on and expecting to play three quarters of a game he did a good job. Certainly when our scrum was made up of 8 guys he did a good job on our feed, and got around the park to a level I expect of him. I honestly think he's a better hooker than Fainga'a.
17 Cowan - did he get on? No? Then whey the fuck isn't Robinson there for emergencies if we're not worried about mobility or any of that shit. Yeah OK he's a "reserve" but you need your bench to be capable enough at their job that they come on and lift the team. Slipper was going great guns, but fresh legs should be at least that good.
18 Alexander - I would have liked to see more of him. This and the Cowan situation make me think about the criticism Deans copped for his use of the bench. Why are these guys there unless they can inject sustained pace and aggression in the last quarter?
19 Skelton - very poor from him I thought. Dropped a couple of pills, and got smacked on the advantage line, going past it once then not placing the ball correctly. Again, not much time to judge him on.
20 Higginbotham - added a lot with his pace, in combination with Phipps and Foley. Probably deserves a start based on that.
21 Phipps - really upped the tempo when he came on, and put the ball out in front of the runners, basically forcing us to go forward, and with enough pace that the defence had to hesitate or miss the intended target. This is what good halfback play is about - getting the game moving.
22 Foley - with Phipps and Higginbotham, really lit the joint up in terms of our attack. Simple, direct, ball in motion stuff and good support lines.
23 Kuridrani - added a bit of grunt when we came on, particularly as our halves had stopped throwing the ball away and operating well behind the advantage line. Will start at 13 against the Boks.
The ABs were definitely a few notches above what they delivered last week, but in part that's because they had the ball early and refused to give it up. Last week they kicked most of it away and dropped some more.
To look at the game and say we weren't "mongrel" enough is to ignore the fact that we could gain no ascendancy while defending.
You simply can't win without the ball, and while you can put defensive pressure on, if your technical alignment isn't good enough, you can't sustain it. Defending is largely a reactionary thing - you must react to your opponent, because anticipation results more often than not in an offside penalty. Could we have had better line speed? Definitely. Could we have been more aggressive in contact? Yes.
But shelve your talk of "passion" please. It looked like a spineless performance, but if you take the first dozen tackles we made or missed, and turned them into shoudlers on bodies rather than flailing hands, then we can salvage some momentum from that. These guys don't lack passion: they lacked a bit of smarts about getting off the floor and getting their technique right in order to stay in the competition.
The situation is then compounded by our attacking basically putting the ball in areas that we didn't have the right numbers at ruck to retain our ball, then deliver it with speed. Why go all the way across the pitch to Sam Carter, when he's got McCabe only in support, and 6 All Blacks to beat? That is asking for a turnover and a try down the other end.
Where is the right to go wide earned in this tactic? Yes the ABs were bloody aggressive in close, but going wide was a simple recipe for being unable to deal with a turnover if it happens. Keep the ball, apply the pressure. It was really interesting to note that the contribution of Phipps, Foley, and Higgers was to breach the line and run the ball up the centre of the field to gain ground.
The last area I'd like to cover is about the reality of rugby in the professional era for Australia. People are saying we don't have the cattle in the forwards compared to the ABs, and that we should fix THAT problem before blaming the halves.
I think we can all agree that simply changing personnel is not going to correct things in the short term - we have to persist with what we've got until the pathways get better at delivering a broader base to this talent pyramid.
I also think the point people are missing from last night in particular, is that if the halves aren't performing, the ability for your forwards to impose themselves on the game is extremely difficult, particularly when you're having to reset behind the advantage line because of poor passing, excessive depth, and bad decision making.
Let's not forget this is a TEAM, and while the old adages about forwards winning games are largely accurate, they don't tell the whole story.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
I noted last year that Folau is great off the mark and on directional changes but lacks outright top end pace.
The only back in the whole side with real top end pace is Beale, reinforces the case for him to be on the wing if he absolutely must be in the starting 15. May well be a good stop gap measure if the worst case scenario comes about with Mcabe, though still not one Id favour.
Not sure about that. He is certainly a bit behind where he was last year.
His carrying is noticeably worse, it's like he is 5-10kg too light. I'd still pick him, but not for much longer if his current form keeps up.
.
Oldschool
Jim Clark (26)
Tell that to Julian Savea
qwerty51
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Wouldn't call him particularly quick either when he gets into open space.
KOB1987
John Eales (66)
whatever..still shoulda..
Pfitzy
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Ha! Hayne benefits from the NRL having the worst defensive alignment of either code. Honestly, the tripe their backlines serve up on D makes me wonder why the bother kicking for tries.
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