New concussion regulations

[Thomond78]

Asked this on another thread, but I'm looking for an answer, so I'll repeat it here: given that the concussion regs came in over a month ago, and that the Boksmart program in SA and Rugbysmart program in NZ mean that at least two of the 3N teams should be well used to them - are they being applied for the 3N matches, starting this weekend?

And if not, why not?

 

[PaarlBok]

Welkom Boet, first word of it, give us more detail about it?

 

[Thomond78]

Welkom Boet, first word of it, give us more detail about it?

Nog hier, Oom: http://rugbylaw.blogspot.com/2011/06/concussion-guidelines.html

 

[Gnostic]

http://www.irbplayerwelfare.com/?documentid=3

New IRB Concusion Regs.

I for one am glad to see this coming in. I assume it is in force in the 3N as it is a full IRB sanctioned event.

I hope the game doctor is in charge of determining the "suspected" concussions to remove any possible chance of pressure being applied to team doctors.

This should do away with situations where a player has been clearly knocked out and tries to get up, staggers around a bit only to return to the game a short time later. If it was boxing the fight would be called, and it should be the case in Rugby as well.

This will go a long way to address immediate player welfare issues but the lingering concerns regarding Repeated Trauma Encephelopathy remain.

 

[Thomond78]

To quote the ref in the England-Bok game last November:

"Look at him. He's almost asleep. He's slurring his words. Make a reasonable decision."

Chris Ashton played another fifty five minutes, remembers nothing and has said it wasn't worth it.

The regs are in place, but - as far as I can glean - there's no training until after the RWC. This could go pear-shaped.

 

[Gnostic]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/11/s...d-from-brain-disease.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

This might be of interest to some here.

 

[It is what it is]

In the US, the NFL is facing a class action suit from over 4,000 former players claiming the league refused to acknowledge the link between brain damage and the sport despite a mass of evidence over 25 years.
The NFL is also considering a rule change that would see opposing players at the line of scrimmage standing upright instead of the current 3 point stance that too often leads to helmet on helmet collisions.
How long before scrums in rugby start from the engaged position rather than a mandatory collision?
This issue isn't going to go away and stakeholders at all levels of the game will need to get behind this duty of care.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

How long before scrums in rugby start from the engaged position rather than a mandatory collision?
This issue isn't going to go away and stakeholders at all levels of the game will need to get behind this duty of care.

There are other reasons to move to this for our scrums as well.
As I understand the NFL situation the problem is thought to be the result of sub-concussive incidents (if thats the right expression) where there is no loss of consciousness or cognition (perceived) at the time of the collision.
Is there evidence (anecdotal or otherwise) that the present scrum engagements are leading to sub-concussive episodes?

 

[D-Box]

Concussions are not an issue in scrum engagement. In union you see them in the tackle contest and clearing out at rucks where it is less controlled

 

[It is what it is]

Concussions are not an issue in scrum engagement. In union you see them in the tackle contest and clearing out at rucks where it is less controlled

The potential for concussion remains in scrum engagements for as long as the opposing teams 'hit' to engage.

 

[TOCC]

There is a threat of concussions in scrums during the hit phase or even a collapses scrum, but it's low when compared to potential spinal injuries.

 

[D-Box]

I do agree that ther is the potential for concussion in scrubs, but as TOCC said spine injuries are the major issue and is where the tweaking of scrum rules is targeted. The tweaking is supported by research into the loads and kinematics in different approaches - I know Bath university is doing some of this.

Personally I think that sports should avoid changing rules that affect the nature of the game for the purposes of injury prevention unless the injury has both high potential risk and frequency. AFL is a good example of changing a rule for injury prevention with the introduction of the 10m circle for center bounces to prevent PCL injuries. It worked without changing the nature of the game.

 

[It is what it is]

Many people equate concussion with receiving a single strong direct blow to the head.
Experts are now saying that concussion can be caused by even minor blows to the head in certain spots, repetitive small blows to the head (think scrums in rugby), and instances where momentum stops suddenly and the brain bounces around as a consequence (car crash like).
The challenge will rest with players acknowledging a concussion has taken place and 'calling it'.
Interestingly many former NFL players now suffering from the effects of concussions have admitted that they knew at the time they were concussed but the prevailing tough guy culture and fear of losing their spot on the team saw them play on and ignore the symptoms.
You're a long time required and quality of life needs to be considered.

 

[D-Box]

Part of the problem in NFL is that players lead with their head as they have a helmet. I have yet to meet a front rower who does that intentionally.

I know that there is some research planned to look at accelerations of the head in game ins union and the scrum data would be interesting, however I don't think that it will be a major issue, except with unskilled front rows. However then you tend to have lower forces. Either way I would not be changing rules until there is a number of studies indicating there is an issue. The best thing the ARU could do is make the wallaby docs and S15 docs pull their players when it is obvious to every man an his dog that they are concussed. Behaviour change has to start at the top.

 

[Shiggins]

The afl have brought in new concussion rules. Basically following rugby. all experts out their are calling afl a global leader for doing it. Mother fuckers!!!! Really pisses me off.

 

[Slim 293]

The afl have brought in new concussion rules. Basically following rugby. all experts out their are calling afl a global leader for doing it. Mother fuckers!!!! Really pisses me off.

The AFL brought in strict concussion rules at least a couple of years ago.......

I think it was round one or two in 2011 you had Jack Riewoldt sulking on the bench because of it.........

 

[Shiggins]

The AFL brought in strict concussion rules at least a couple of years ago...

I think it was round one or two in 2011 you had Jack Riewoldt sulking on the bench because of it...

They have only just bought in a rule were a player can be subbed while another is looked at or concussion.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

IIRC the ARU has always had rather strict guidelines for concussion management in their Handbook.

When I was actively coaching juniors not all that long ago, one of my lads got knocked out after a head clash in the tackle, on the clay cricket wicket part of an oval. A double ouch!

The ARU procedure for management of concussion in a junior player that I followed as his Coach was an 8 week stand down(might have been a week or two more or less - about 6 years ago & precise details fuzzy) . This was reduced by a week or two following assessment by a neurosurgeon. We were able to jump up the waiting list as the neurosurgeon was a Dad in the club.

The guidelines for Senior players were not as rigid - compulsory minimum 2 week standdown I think.

I'm just not all that sure that many people actually followed the published guidelines, or that the ARU (and their affiliates) actually actively enforced them too rigidly. There were not all that well advertised and I had to a bit of a task to find them.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

This from TPN in today's SMH:
''It was all friendly, I should have just ducked but I didn't see it coming. I was fine, I wasn't concussed, I was just hamming it up really to get the penalty, and I got it [and] moved on.''

If a bloke stays down and is apparently unconscious he should be forced to leave the field for evaluation.
We don't want to finish up with divers: some people already think the game is too dangerous for their kids to play and lying doggo is a bad look.




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[qwerty51]

He just admitted milking a penalty.. wow respect lost.