New ARU Contracting post 2016

[Lorenzo]

hopefully there will be some sort of yardstick(s) implemented..

such as players who have fulfilled "either 30 tests or 3 full seasons of Super rugby whilst under ARU contract"..

that's just an example, not a suggestion..

You're making a rod for your own back by doing this.

They are commercial negotiations and need to be treated as such.

Arbitrary rules make life more difficult as they will eventually find themselves wanting to break them.

It's simple - the ARU offers sabbaticals to those that it wishes to offer sabbaticals, taking in to consideration how much it wants to keep that player and every other aspect of the negotiation.

Regardless, publishing qualification rules merely creates displeasure amongst those that meet the criteria and still don't get offered a sabbatical.

 

[Wilson]

You're making a rod for your own back by doing this.

They are commercial negotiations and need to be treated as such.

Arbitrary rules make life more difficult as they will eventually find themselves wanting to break them.

It's simple - the ARU offers sabbaticals to those that it wishes to offer sabbaticals, taking in to consideration how much it wants to keep that player and every other aspect of the negotiation.

Regardless, publishing qualification rules merely creates displeasure amongst those that meet the criteria and still don't get offered a sabbatical.

Yeah I'm sure there will be internal guidelines, but they'll be flexible, private and hopefully non specific enough that if leaked people can't get too pissed off about missing out.

 

[Braveheart81]

The one per team Super Rugby sabbatical could also be used for a player like Liam Gill who could be viewed as being a critical player to the Reds for years to come but can't get an ARU top up due to the depth we have at 7.

It would be somewhat disappointing if the Reds used it to get JOC (James O'Connor) back here and eligible for the Wallabies or for Hunt who probably doesn't need to play continuous rugby for 18-24 months in 2015 and 2016.

 

[Pfitzy]

It would be somewhat disappointing if the Reds used it to get JOC (James O'Connor) back here and eligible for the Wallabies or for Hunt who probably doesn't need to play continuous rugby for 18-24 months in 2015 and 2016.

If anyone signs a three-year deal with JOC (James O'Connor), they're a fucking idiot.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I think Toulon have

 

[Dctarget]

I think Toulon have

*anyone without a literal fuckton of cash.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wamberal]

Great to see a step forward towards full professionalism.

The rest of the rugby world operates in a more or less open environment (I think New Zealand remain the only exception, and they have enough depth to do whatever they want).

There will be some unintended consequences, no doubt, but on the whole it should be beneficial for the game as a whole. More doors open means more players who are willing to spend at least of their season playing here.

And, frankly, at the end of the day, if an overseas-based player (Digby, for example) needed to be parachuted into our RWC squad without having played here domestically until then, who cares? Not me, as long as it means that our overall performance at the Cup is enhances.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Nobody cares about where a player is playing in actual fact.

Actually no, we do, because there is uncertainty when comparing form, etc. to somebody playing in a different competition against different opponents.

The concerns are the detrimental affects if could have on Super Rugby and ultimately the Wallabies in the long term. If there's not enough talent, Super Rugby teams will struggle on the field, off the field and ratings will drop. If ratings drop and the teams become enough of a financial burden, the ARU could conceivably one day be forced to scrap Super Rugby. Then where would we be?

 

[Braveheart81]

What if Ewen McKenzie announced that due to our locks struggling against the All Blacks he's decided to call in Dean Mumm because he's excelling in the English Premiership and is a real leader of that team which the Wallabies need more of?

The whole foreign player thing is a myth in my opinion. The top three teams in the world provide the players for Super Rugby and thinking it is anything other than the benchmark for international competitions would be foolish in my opinion.

Drew Mitchell would probably hold his own if he was parachuted back into the Wallabies but I can't see it being a good idea. He was struggling to maintain a starting position with the Waratahs before he left.

The relaxed rules they announced yesterday for allowing longer term contrated Wallabies and one Super Rugby player per team to play a season overseas without penalty is a good one. I don't think it needs to be extended though.

 

[liquor box]

Nationally Contracted Players – The ARU will exclusively manage the number of flexible contracts it negotiates with Nationally Contracted Players to ensure the pool of players available for Test selection is sufficiently strong each year.

This seems like it could be challenged in court, What is Moore and TPN decide they both want to go at the same time? This would leave our stocks of hookers pretty low. I would be interested how the ARU will justify its decisions.


Can the captain of the Wallabies go? Is his position necessary to make the team sufficiently strong?

Will the ARU make decisions based on injury history? I would be concerned if Pocock wanted to go overseas and play more rugby given his recent history of major injuries.

 

[Braveheart81]

This seems like it could be challenged in court, What is Moore and TPN decide they both want to go at the same time? This would leave our stocks of hookers pretty low. I would be interested how the ARU will justify its decisions.


Can the captain of the Wallabies go? Is his position necessary to make the team sufficiently strong?

Will the ARU make decisions based on injury history? I would be concerned if Pocock wanted to go overseas and play more rugby given his recent history of major injuries.

The ARU has said it's on a case by case basis.

I think they can do what they like. They don't have to offer a player a season overseas just like they don't have to offer every player the same salary or contract conditions.

 

[Lorenzo]

This seems like it could be challenged in court, What is Moore and TPN decide they both want to go at the same time? This would leave our stocks of hookers pretty low. I would be interested how the ARU will justify its decisions.


Can the captain of the Wallabies go? Is his position necessary to make the team sufficiently strong?

Will the ARU make decisions based on injury history? I would be concerned if Pocock wanted to go overseas and play more rugby given his recent history of major injuries.

On what basis do you think it could be challenged in court?

 

[louie]

about time.

 

[Pfitzy]

Slippery slope.

 

[TOCC]

the retention of the top Wallabies has been a slipper slope for years, and with the current finances and the lull following the 2015 RWC that slipper-slope was about to turn into a raging torrent.

I'd much rather see a wallaby disappear for a year then disappear for the remainder of his career. Australia has horrible habit of dismissing players once they reach 30yrs old, South Africa and England have won RWC's with the bulk of their teams been in that age bracket. Lets hope this new contractual process allows Australia to retain players into their 30's.

 

[Bowside]

Australian Rugby would be in a better place if Mowen, Douglas, Pyle, Cummins, Ioane, G. Smith and Giteau (I may have missed others) were all still in contention for next years world cup.

If this new system can fix this problem and also keep a bunch of other blokes from going overseas than it sounds good to me.

 

[TOCC]

Australian Rugby would be in a better place if Mowen, Douglas, Pyle, Cummins, Ioane, G. Smith and Giteau (I may have missed others) were all still in contention for next years world cup.

If this new system can fix this problem and also keep a bunch of other blokes from going overseas than it sounds good to me.

Yes definitely, and its not just about these players purely been in contention for spots but the wisdom and experience that these players bring and are able to pass on to the younger up and coming players.

 

[Lorenzo]

the retention of the top Wallabies has been a slipper slope for years, and with the current finances and the lull following the 2015 RWC that slipper-slope was about to turn into a raging torrent.

I'd much rather see a wallaby disappear for a year then disappear for the remainder of his career. Australia has horrible habit of dismissing players once they reach 30yrs old, South Africa and England have won RWC's with the bulk of their teams been in that age bracket. Lets hope this new contractual process allows Australia to retain players into their 30's.

This sounded like BS to me on the on the Saffa front, so I checked.

South Africa's match day 21 for the 95 final had 4 that were 30 or older - Straeuli, Swart, Wiese and Joubert.

Their match day 22 for the 07 final had all of 3 in their 30s - Montgomery Matfield and Du Randt.

Getting the older players off the books is good business. They want too much money for their output and are more injury prone and heal slower.

We had to start Berrick Barnes at 10 in only his 4th test in a RWC quarter final because we had not blooded a replacement whilst desperately hanging on to Larkham.

 

[TOCC]

This sounded like BS to me on the on the Saffa front, so I checked.

South Africa's match day 21 for the 95 final had 4 that were 30 or older - Straeuli, Swart, Wiese and Joubert.

Their match day 22 for the 07 final had all of 3 in their 30s - Montgomery Matfield and Du Randt.

I used the term 'bracket' with no definitive ages but more a reflection of the experience and age in the squad. Neither Giteau, Mitchell, Douglas or Mowen were 30yrs old when the signed to go overseas.... The exodus from Australia starts well before 30.

At the 2011 RWC New Zealand had an average age of 28, Australia had an average age of 26 with 800 total test caps compared to New Zealand's 1140. France also had an average age of 28 with a total 1000 test caps.


Heres some stats of the starting XV of the previous 5 RWC winners:

1999(Australia)
Age: 27
Total Caps: 622

2003(England)
Age: 28
Total Caps: 638

2007(South Africa)
Age: 27
Total Caps: 688

2011(New Zealand)
Age: 28
Total Caps: 709


Australia's team vs All Blacks from last Saturday
Age: 25
Total Caps: 477

 

[Lorenzo]

Yeah, an average age of 27 - 28 is about right.

Not a whole lot of room for men in their 30s though so I don't understand your original post.

As for Giteau, he has a lot of experience playing on teams that never won anything, developed a reputation as petulant, and left because he was dropped. I dispute that he would be of any value.