My Wallaby 22
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Re: Stuff it I'm going early My Wallaby 22
Nup, I'm on that boat too, as I was last year. Nothing's changed. Gits is a good 10 at provincial level, but I reckon he'll be even better at 12. If it doesn't work, reversing him and Barnes wouldn't be too foul.Scarfman said:
disco
Chilla Wilson (44)
Re: My Wallaby 22
I use to be all for the Gits/ Barnes switch until this season, Gits has been superb at 10 this year & I reckon he's closed the gap on Carter which is a good sign as Gits had the wood on Carter when they both played at 12.
If Gits goes down then we have Barnes to step in which probably then throw JOC (James O'Connor) into the hot seat.
I use to be all for the Gits/ Barnes switch until this season, Gits has been superb at 10 this year & I reckon he's closed the gap on Carter which is a good sign as Gits had the wood on Carter when they both played at 12.
If Gits goes down then we have Barnes to step in which probably then throw JOC (James O'Connor) into the hot seat.
S
Spook
Guest
Re: My Wallaby 22
I was waiting for the "Gits at 12" boat to be launched ;D. Like last year I plan to sink that boat until I see a reliable 10 step up. Barnes hasn't convinced me yet at 10. Anyway, there is no reason why Barnes sometimes can't go into first receiver but Gits should be there more often.
I was waiting for the "Gits at 12" boat to be launched ;D. Like last year I plan to sink that boat until I see a reliable 10 step up. Barnes hasn't convinced me yet at 10. Anyway, there is no reason why Barnes sometimes can't go into first receiver but Gits should be there more often.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Re: My Wallaby 22
I find it difficult to pick 22s or 15s and I'm not very good at it to be honest. I find long winded waffle about the various positions, more to my liking.
You have to take into account injuries and the opposition. Nobody would think that the first two teams to be chosen against the Baa Baas and Italy will be anything more than outfits formed for the sake of having a look at players - or at least half the players - to see how they go.
So I would go for picking a squad.
Fullback
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was used there a lot by Deans last year, but he's had a pretty average Super14; not bad, just average. Shepherd, SNK and Gerrard are all out of the picture for one reason or another; Turner did OK in the RSA and may get a run against the lesser teams but, if so, he will have to prove himself there before he gets picked for the real test matches. He hardly took the most of his opportunity last year on the wing.
Drew Mitchell was fullback for all the Force games this year, except one when he was injured and another on the wing. He played well for most of them and is a lot better fullback than he used to be, but geez he isolated himself a lot and is prone to losing the ball on contact.
McLinden could be a smokey, and could well start in the Baa Baas game, but there is more to being a fullback in test rugby than running the ball back in open play, as in the days when he played against only 13 defenders. The ELVs reward a running fullback these days, and especially when players are tired, and especially at the Super14 level, but I'd hate to see Little Mac subject to a barrage of high kicks in a Bledisloe test on a windy, rainy day across the ditch.
The Rabbit would do a great job and warm our hearts; but that can wait. He should go to the IRB U/20 tournament with the likes of Beale and Horne.
My choices would be: Mitchell and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) with McLinden as the smokey.
Wings
Nobody is a certainty to start in 3N. Ignoring Tuqiri's injury on the EOYT, he and Hynes were Deans first picks last year. Hynes has missed a lot of S14 games and Lote hasn't got a lot of pill. To his credit Lote looked for work but to his debit he was clumsy a few times and backed himself too much.
I have Turner as a better performer in the S14 than Lote, but Deans could well pick the more experienced guy for 3N.
Realistically, we can't pick Staniforth, though he's the form winger in Oz, and Ioane is out; so my wingers for this winter's squad are Hynes, Tuqiri and Turner, with the unwanted fullback as another. Smokey - Fainifo.
Outside Centre
There was a bit of doubt on this forum not too long ago about whether Mortlock was worthy of his place in the Wallabies team, and should be overlooked in favour of Ioane. Since then Diggers has got crocked and Morty found his form. Part of Mortlock's form lapse was because of problems inside and in front of him, including a lack of physicality up front from time to time; but there is no doubt now that he should wear the 13 gold jersey this year.
Apart from AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) as a reserve outside back, the only other valid candidate is Ryan Cross; but though he can make a few breaks in the S14 and is a stern defender, head to head, I don't think he has done enough to be a shoo-in.
My picks are Mortlock and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) as a back up, but Cross, as a non-smokey, may get picked for squad depth.
Inside Centre/Flyhalf
These have to be considered together, because Giteau and Barnes are the two best Oz players in both positions. Since the 2007 RWC game against Wales I have been a 10. Barnes and 12. Giteau devotee. Yet we have seen Giteau lauded by some as the best flyhalf in the world and the best player in the S14 this year.
We have also seen 10 Giteau and 12 Barnes being so effective as to dominate Bledisloe I in 2008. So; ithat could be the set up for 3N. I would like Barnes at 10, but he hasn't played there a lot this year and when he did, a couple of years ago, he always had a habit of standing a few steps too far back.
But who else? Tahu will probably make the squad as cover for both centre positions. He played his best games in the RSA at 13 when he had both Halangahu and Beale inside him, but he still lost the ball on contact a bit. If, say, Barnes is injured in a 3N game, then Mortlock would probably move to 12 with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to 13, but Tyrone Smith would be a smokey in my squad.
I can't see a spot for Cooper this winter unless Deans thinks he needs squad depth at 10. He missed close to 60 tackles this year and is the only non-South African in the top 10. So - Giteau and Barnes with Smith as the smokey and Mortlock and Tahu as cover.
Scrumhalf
Burgess has not played every game this year as though he's the only Wallaby candidate, but when you look at the others, he is close to being the only one.
To his credit, Valentine has made the most of his move out west and has stepped over Sheehan. My pick for a backup to Burgess earlier in the season was Genia, who is now crocked. As I mentioned on another thread, whilst everybody was talking about Lucas early on for the Reds, the more I saw both Lucas and Genia in the same match, the more I realised that the specialist was the real deal.
My picks: Burgess and Valentine with Sheehan as backup.
No. 8
There only two candidates here: Palu and Brown. Hoiles and Huston play some top games in the S14 from time to time but they do not compare.
Brown is skilful and as hard as nails but my preference is for Palu in grunt games with Brown to come on for impact. Others have it the other way around and I have no objection to that opinion.
Openside Flanker
Which two of Smith, Waugh and Pocock should be chosen? If I have to pick only 2 no. 7's for 3N this year and my house was on the outcome, I would pick Waugh and Smith for 2009. They are my picks on form; but if had to look at the longer view I would sacrifice Waugh for the international development of Pocock.
For those who think the preference for Waugh is not on form (or an emotional choice as one scold would have it), The Kiwi Rugby News magazine has Waugh rated as the best openside flanker in the S14 this year on their weekly assessments (for me it is Brossouw) - and yesterday the SMH scribes had him in their Oz team of the week for the 8th time - not bad for 13 games. Only Benn Robinson, with 9, has been chosen more often.
I don't always agree with MOTM awards nor assessments by journalists, but my opinion on Waugh is closer to theirs than it is to the knockers.
Blindside flanker/Lock
These positions have to be considered together. The only definite selection is that Sharpe will be the LH lock. I think that Deans will play Horwill as TH lock in all the games before 3N to get him match fit, but I wouldn't pick him on form for 3N at the moment.
If Elsom is available his selection at 6 is a no brainer. Objectors to this opinion could not have seen Rocky play a lot in Europe in the northern winter. I can't think of one 6 in the 6N clubs who played better. If he is not availble I would choose Mumm above 3M, even if the Queenslander is fit. It's the first time I have ever said this because I think that 3M's work rate is phenomenal.
If all 3 are available and Horwill match fit to play lock in 3N ,we will be spolit for choice at 6, but if they aren't, Mumm would be my man.
My picks are: Sharpe, Horwill, Mumm, 3M and Elsom . If Elsom and/or 3M aren't available, then my smokeys for the 2 positions are Kimlin, Caldwell (a TH lock) and Mowen. Alas there is no spot for another smokey - Hodgson.
Tighthead Prop
Al Baxter is denigrated by some, but not by opponents. The only other candidate is Shepherdson but Kepu may be called in as 5th prop to cover both sides. Baxter and Shepherdson.
Hooker
With Freier injured, McIsaac and Hardman (apparently) retired, Moore and TPN are the only candidates. Who will be the 3rd hooker? [There will opportunities for young hookers like Whittaker, Fitzpatrick, Charles and Hanson in Oz rugby teams in the next few years, but 2010 will be a problem for some Oz S14 teams.]
Loosehead Prop
Robinson and Alexander are the obvious choices with Robinson the form Oz player in the S14 in any position. Again, Kepu will cover for LHP but PK Cowan is starting to sniff around. Were it not for unaccustomed depth in this position, he would be a smokey. I hope the Force cross-train him as a hooker - but I digress.
I find it difficult to pick 22s or 15s and I'm not very good at it to be honest. I find long winded waffle about the various positions, more to my liking.
You have to take into account injuries and the opposition. Nobody would think that the first two teams to be chosen against the Baa Baas and Italy will be anything more than outfits formed for the sake of having a look at players - or at least half the players - to see how they go.
So I would go for picking a squad.
Fullback
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was used there a lot by Deans last year, but he's had a pretty average Super14; not bad, just average. Shepherd, SNK and Gerrard are all out of the picture for one reason or another; Turner did OK in the RSA and may get a run against the lesser teams but, if so, he will have to prove himself there before he gets picked for the real test matches. He hardly took the most of his opportunity last year on the wing.
Drew Mitchell was fullback for all the Force games this year, except one when he was injured and another on the wing. He played well for most of them and is a lot better fullback than he used to be, but geez he isolated himself a lot and is prone to losing the ball on contact.
McLinden could be a smokey, and could well start in the Baa Baas game, but there is more to being a fullback in test rugby than running the ball back in open play, as in the days when he played against only 13 defenders. The ELVs reward a running fullback these days, and especially when players are tired, and especially at the Super14 level, but I'd hate to see Little Mac subject to a barrage of high kicks in a Bledisloe test on a windy, rainy day across the ditch.
The Rabbit would do a great job and warm our hearts; but that can wait. He should go to the IRB U/20 tournament with the likes of Beale and Horne.
My choices would be: Mitchell and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) with McLinden as the smokey.
Wings
Nobody is a certainty to start in 3N. Ignoring Tuqiri's injury on the EOYT, he and Hynes were Deans first picks last year. Hynes has missed a lot of S14 games and Lote hasn't got a lot of pill. To his credit Lote looked for work but to his debit he was clumsy a few times and backed himself too much.
I have Turner as a better performer in the S14 than Lote, but Deans could well pick the more experienced guy for 3N.
Realistically, we can't pick Staniforth, though he's the form winger in Oz, and Ioane is out; so my wingers for this winter's squad are Hynes, Tuqiri and Turner, with the unwanted fullback as another. Smokey - Fainifo.
Outside Centre
There was a bit of doubt on this forum not too long ago about whether Mortlock was worthy of his place in the Wallabies team, and should be overlooked in favour of Ioane. Since then Diggers has got crocked and Morty found his form. Part of Mortlock's form lapse was because of problems inside and in front of him, including a lack of physicality up front from time to time; but there is no doubt now that he should wear the 13 gold jersey this year.
Apart from AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) as a reserve outside back, the only other valid candidate is Ryan Cross; but though he can make a few breaks in the S14 and is a stern defender, head to head, I don't think he has done enough to be a shoo-in.
My picks are Mortlock and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) as a back up, but Cross, as a non-smokey, may get picked for squad depth.
Inside Centre/Flyhalf
These have to be considered together, because Giteau and Barnes are the two best Oz players in both positions. Since the 2007 RWC game against Wales I have been a 10. Barnes and 12. Giteau devotee. Yet we have seen Giteau lauded by some as the best flyhalf in the world and the best player in the S14 this year.
We have also seen 10 Giteau and 12 Barnes being so effective as to dominate Bledisloe I in 2008. So; ithat could be the set up for 3N. I would like Barnes at 10, but he hasn't played there a lot this year and when he did, a couple of years ago, he always had a habit of standing a few steps too far back.
But who else? Tahu will probably make the squad as cover for both centre positions. He played his best games in the RSA at 13 when he had both Halangahu and Beale inside him, but he still lost the ball on contact a bit. If, say, Barnes is injured in a 3N game, then Mortlock would probably move to 12 with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to 13, but Tyrone Smith would be a smokey in my squad.
I can't see a spot for Cooper this winter unless Deans thinks he needs squad depth at 10. He missed close to 60 tackles this year and is the only non-South African in the top 10. So - Giteau and Barnes with Smith as the smokey and Mortlock and Tahu as cover.
Scrumhalf
Burgess has not played every game this year as though he's the only Wallaby candidate, but when you look at the others, he is close to being the only one.
To his credit, Valentine has made the most of his move out west and has stepped over Sheehan. My pick for a backup to Burgess earlier in the season was Genia, who is now crocked. As I mentioned on another thread, whilst everybody was talking about Lucas early on for the Reds, the more I saw both Lucas and Genia in the same match, the more I realised that the specialist was the real deal.
My picks: Burgess and Valentine with Sheehan as backup.
No. 8
There only two candidates here: Palu and Brown. Hoiles and Huston play some top games in the S14 from time to time but they do not compare.
Brown is skilful and as hard as nails but my preference is for Palu in grunt games with Brown to come on for impact. Others have it the other way around and I have no objection to that opinion.
Openside Flanker
Which two of Smith, Waugh and Pocock should be chosen? If I have to pick only 2 no. 7's for 3N this year and my house was on the outcome, I would pick Waugh and Smith for 2009. They are my picks on form; but if had to look at the longer view I would sacrifice Waugh for the international development of Pocock.
For those who think the preference for Waugh is not on form (or an emotional choice as one scold would have it), The Kiwi Rugby News magazine has Waugh rated as the best openside flanker in the S14 this year on their weekly assessments (for me it is Brossouw) - and yesterday the SMH scribes had him in their Oz team of the week for the 8th time - not bad for 13 games. Only Benn Robinson, with 9, has been chosen more often.
I don't always agree with MOTM awards nor assessments by journalists, but my opinion on Waugh is closer to theirs than it is to the knockers.
Blindside flanker/Lock
These positions have to be considered together. The only definite selection is that Sharpe will be the LH lock. I think that Deans will play Horwill as TH lock in all the games before 3N to get him match fit, but I wouldn't pick him on form for 3N at the moment.
If Elsom is available his selection at 6 is a no brainer. Objectors to this opinion could not have seen Rocky play a lot in Europe in the northern winter. I can't think of one 6 in the 6N clubs who played better. If he is not availble I would choose Mumm above 3M, even if the Queenslander is fit. It's the first time I have ever said this because I think that 3M's work rate is phenomenal.
If all 3 are available and Horwill match fit to play lock in 3N ,we will be spolit for choice at 6, but if they aren't, Mumm would be my man.
My picks are: Sharpe, Horwill, Mumm, 3M and Elsom . If Elsom and/or 3M aren't available, then my smokeys for the 2 positions are Kimlin, Caldwell (a TH lock) and Mowen. Alas there is no spot for another smokey - Hodgson.
Tighthead Prop
Al Baxter is denigrated by some, but not by opponents. The only other candidate is Shepherdson but Kepu may be called in as 5th prop to cover both sides. Baxter and Shepherdson.
Hooker
With Freier injured, McIsaac and Hardman (apparently) retired, Moore and TPN are the only candidates. Who will be the 3rd hooker? [There will opportunities for young hookers like Whittaker, Fitzpatrick, Charles and Hanson in Oz rugby teams in the next few years, but 2010 will be a problem for some Oz S14 teams.]
Loosehead Prop
Robinson and Alexander are the obvious choices with Robinson the form Oz player in the S14 in any position. Again, Kepu will cover for LHP but PK Cowan is starting to sniff around. Were it not for unaccustomed depth in this position, he would be a smokey. I hope the Force cross-train him as a hooker - but I digress.
Scarfman
Knitter of the Scarf
Re: My Wallaby 22
A couple of points.
1. It's strange how everyone is talking about how Deans might pull some surprises in his squad, but when you look at form, we are almost unanimous in our selections. Most positions have a clear starter and reserve.
2. The position that is causing the most disagreement is fullback. Which is a problem, because in my opinion the FB position has become more important through the ELVs and other recent changes in style. The essentials of the position haven't changed, however. You need someone who can really kick, but with more vairation than in the past. Running it back is important too, but it always was in my opinion. The skill that is now most important is catching the high ball. Not just most of the time, but every time, under pressure. Chris Latham is perfectly designed for the job and it's going to cost us games that he's not around.
A couple of points.
1. It's strange how everyone is talking about how Deans might pull some surprises in his squad, but when you look at form, we are almost unanimous in our selections. Most positions have a clear starter and reserve.
2. The position that is causing the most disagreement is fullback. Which is a problem, because in my opinion the FB position has become more important through the ELVs and other recent changes in style. The essentials of the position haven't changed, however. You need someone who can really kick, but with more vairation than in the past. Running it back is important too, but it always was in my opinion. The skill that is now most important is catching the high ball. Not just most of the time, but every time, under pressure. Chris Latham is perfectly designed for the job and it's going to cost us games that he's not around.
F
formeropenside
Guest
Re: My Wallaby 22
I might be tempted to try Hynes at fullback, myself. McLinden would be a bold choice, and could pay off.
I would pick Gerrard if he were available.
I might be tempted to try Hynes at fullback, myself. McLinden would be a bold choice, and could pay off.
I would pick Gerrard if he were available.
R
Rugby Rat
Guest
Re: My Wallaby 22
I would like to see Barnes at Fullback. His defence is usualy solid. He can kick, pass and run so I am sure he would not be out of his depth.
It would leave a gap in the front line to be filled.
I would like to see Barnes at Fullback. His defence is usualy solid. He can kick, pass and run so I am sure he would not be out of his depth.
It would leave a gap in the front line to be filled.
Scotty
David Codey (61)
Re: My Wallaby 22
I can't see O'Connor missing out on selection in the squad. He is too dynamic a player to leave out.
Scotty's Squad (assuming 16 forwards, 14 backs):
FB Mitchell, McLinden
Wings Turner, Hynes, Tuqiri, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) (also centres)
Centres Mortlock, Cross, Barnes, O'Connor
Flyhalfs Giteau
Scrumhalfs Burgess, Valentine, Lucas
No 8s Palu, Brown
Openside Smith, Pocock
Blindside Mumm, Elsom
Locks Horwill, Sharpe, Caldwell
Hookers Moore, TPN, Hardman
THs Baxter, Shepherdson
LHs Robinson, Alexander
I think our most critical position is hooker, where we could be royally stuffed if Moore gets injured.
I can't see O'Connor missing out on selection in the squad. He is too dynamic a player to leave out.
Scotty's Squad (assuming 16 forwards, 14 backs):
FB Mitchell, McLinden
Wings Turner, Hynes, Tuqiri, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) (also centres)
Centres Mortlock, Cross, Barnes, O'Connor
Flyhalfs Giteau
Scrumhalfs Burgess, Valentine, Lucas
No 8s Palu, Brown
Openside Smith, Pocock
Blindside Mumm, Elsom
Locks Horwill, Sharpe, Caldwell
Hookers Moore, TPN, Hardman
THs Baxter, Shepherdson
LHs Robinson, Alexander
I think our most critical position is hooker, where we could be royally stuffed if Moore gets injured.
Re: My Wallaby 22
Elsom is in the Baa Baa team so my guess is he won't be selected in the first squad
Last Season Deans had a break up of 17 forwards, 13 backs with 3 9s, 3 hookers & 4 props, so my guess is:
Back 3: Mitchell, Turner, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) Hynes, Tuqiri, McClinden
Centres: Mortlock, Barnes, O'Connor
Flyhalfs: Giteau
Scrumhalfs: Burgess, Valentine, Phibbs
No 8s: Palu, Brown
Openside: Smith, Pocock
Blindside; Mumm, Mowen,
Locks; Horwill, Sharpe, Caldwell, Kimlin
Hookers: Moore, TPN, Hardman
THs: Baxter, Shepherdson
LHs: Robinson, Alexander
Hooker & 9 are the issues. Hardman will fill the hole, but Lucas has done very very little and Phibbs has been very solid and plays a different style to Burgess & Valentine
Elsom is in the Baa Baa team so my guess is he won't be selected in the first squad
Last Season Deans had a break up of 17 forwards, 13 backs with 3 9s, 3 hookers & 4 props, so my guess is:
Back 3: Mitchell, Turner, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) Hynes, Tuqiri, McClinden
Centres: Mortlock, Barnes, O'Connor
Flyhalfs: Giteau
Scrumhalfs: Burgess, Valentine, Phibbs
No 8s: Palu, Brown
Openside: Smith, Pocock
Blindside; Mumm, Mowen,
Locks; Horwill, Sharpe, Caldwell, Kimlin
Hookers: Moore, TPN, Hardman
THs: Baxter, Shepherdson
LHs: Robinson, Alexander
Hooker & 9 are the issues. Hardman will fill the hole, but Lucas has done very very little and Phibbs has been very solid and plays a different style to Burgess & Valentine
Re: My Wallaby 22
I think the fact McLinden and Lucas were picked in the Aussie 7s team means they won't be there.
What I reckon will be picked:
FB: James O'Connor & Drew Mitchell
Wing: Lachie Turner, Lote Tuqiri, Adam Ashley-Cooper & Peter Hynes
Centre: Stirling Mortlock, Timana Tahu & Berrick Barnes
Flyhalves: Matt Giteau & Quade Cooper
Scrumhalves: Josh Valentine & Luke Burgess
No 8: Wycliffe Palu & Richard Brown.
Flankers: George Smith, David Pocock, Phil Waugh, Matt Hodgson
Locks: Dean Mumm, Will Caldwell, Peter Kimlin, Nathan Sharpe
THPs: Al Baxter, Guy Shepherdson & Sekope Kepu
LHPs: Benn Robinson & Ben Alexander
Hookers: Stephen Moore & Tatafu Polata-Nau
couple of roughies there for you - Kepu, Caldwell, Hodgson, Cooper and Tahu.
I think the fact McLinden and Lucas were picked in the Aussie 7s team means they won't be there.
What I reckon will be picked:
FB: James O'Connor & Drew Mitchell
Wing: Lachie Turner, Lote Tuqiri, Adam Ashley-Cooper & Peter Hynes
Centre: Stirling Mortlock, Timana Tahu & Berrick Barnes
Flyhalves: Matt Giteau & Quade Cooper
Scrumhalves: Josh Valentine & Luke Burgess
No 8: Wycliffe Palu & Richard Brown.
Flankers: George Smith, David Pocock, Phil Waugh, Matt Hodgson
Locks: Dean Mumm, Will Caldwell, Peter Kimlin, Nathan Sharpe
THPs: Al Baxter, Guy Shepherdson & Sekope Kepu
LHPs: Benn Robinson & Ben Alexander
Hookers: Stephen Moore & Tatafu Polata-Nau
couple of roughies there for you - Kepu, Caldwell, Hodgson, Cooper and Tahu.
Re: My Wallaby 22
I reckon Mowen really has to be in the mix, and depending on Rocky's 'rehabilitation' could be a real bolter.
Having trawled through the Lions game's footage last night, he was outstanding, again. He has an explosiveness of pace onto the ball that neither Mumm nor Kimlin have and was an absolute legend at line-out on both teams' ball. That extra option in the line-out is a gift that Rocky also brought.
Agreed that both Mumm or Kimlin are proven to cover lock at scrum time, so a bench spot might be difficult for him to snaffle. This year has shown we need a good starting back up to Rocky though!
I reckon Mowen really has to be in the mix, and depending on Rocky's 'rehabilitation' could be a real bolter.
Having trawled through the Lions game's footage last night, he was outstanding, again. He has an explosiveness of pace onto the ball that neither Mumm nor Kimlin have and was an absolute legend at line-out on both teams' ball. That extra option in the line-out is a gift that Rocky also brought.
Agreed that both Mumm or Kimlin are proven to cover lock at scrum time, so a bench spot might be difficult for him to snaffle. This year has shown we need a good starting back up to Rocky though!
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