My little rant (Giteau)

[DPK]

Just had a look at the BO'D try to grab the draw in the EOYT last year. O'Driscoll slipped through the 12-13 channel- guess who! QC (Quade Cooper)!

 

[Scarfman]

Here's Growden's take on what Robbie's take on Cooper / Beale is:

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...et-to-cost-beale-or-cooper-20100521-w1rs.html

Suspect defence set to cost Beale or Cooper

On form, Kurtley Beale and Quade Cooper deserve Test selection. But the chance of both being in the Wallabies starting line-up to play Fiji next month is slim. It's more likely to be a case of one or the other. The reason? Concerns at national level about their defensive capabilities.

Wallabies coach Robbie Deans gave an interesting clue several weeks ago when he said he thought it was clever how Queensland had used Cooper in their defensive patterns this season, which meant occasionally keeping him away from the defensive front line.

Although Cooper, easily the standout five-eighth of the Super 14, has improved in his defence, there is still that slight area of doubt when he is placed under pressure. It is a similar situation with Beale, who has excelled in the last month at fullback for the Waratahs, but who can avoid constant tackling as he is used in the last line of defence.

Deans is interested in trying Beale at fullback, and is likely to do so in the opening Test. But that will probably mean being more conservative in midfield by choosing Berrick Barnes at five-eighth and Matt Giteau at inside centre, while putting Cooper on the bench to be used as a second-half impact player.

In many other areas, Deans's hands will be tied because of the massive injury toll that has rendered at least 15 players unavailable for the June 5 Test.

The options in each position are:

Fullback: Deans will probably go for Beale, but I would go for Adam Ashley-Cooper, opening the way to trial Rob Horne at outside centre. Getting the Test No.13 position right is crucial. Against Fiji would be the ideal chance to blood Horne, who looks as if he is the man to replace Stirling Mortlock, if he can keep his hamstring complaints at bay.

Wingers: Digby Ioane is certain to be one, and on form the other should go to Drew Mitchell. However, if Rod Davies or Luke Morahan were available they would probably have been chosen ahead of Mitchell. Lachie Turner is also pressing hard.

Centres: Giteau has done enough to hold his inside-centre spot, and the Wallabies need a reliable goalkicker. At No.13, if the Test selectors go for Beale at No.15, they will probably play safe and pick Ashley-Cooper, the everywhere man.

Five-eighth: If Will Genia was available Cooper would have been a certainty. As Genia will miss the first month, the selectors are expected to revert to the Waratahs half combination of Barnes and Luke Burgess.

Halfback: Burgess is expected to regain his spot, but his Super 14 form has been patchy, with his erratic passing often putting too much pressure on those around him. I would instead go with Josh Valentine and Brett Sheehan as his back-up because, behind Genia, they were the next best halfbacks in this year's tournament. Genia will walk straight back in when he is fit again.

No.8: Wycliff Palu would be first choice if available. With limited other options, Richard Brown is the clear favourite. It would have been interesting if Scott Higginbotham was around, as he could have been the bolter for the position.

Openside breakaway: David Pocock by a country mile, no doubt about it.

Blindside breakaway: Rocky Elsom has been a bit up and down, but is under no threat at No.6.

Second row: This remains a problem area, and although Deans is looking for youth he has no option but to pick the 32-year-old Nathan Sharpe, the standout second-rower in the Super 14, while Dean Mumm was the next best. Mumm is also an important selection because of his leadership capabilities. Rob Simmons would have threatened if he was available, while Kane Douglas is the second-rower of the future.

Props: It is a case of who is left standing. With Benn Robinson, Ben Daley, Sekope Kepu and Laurie Weeks unavailable, there's not much left. Ben Alexander is a special, while Salesi Ma'afu, despite his problems against the Crusaders, is worthy of a trial at tight-head. There is still some hope that Daley will be available for the Fiji Test, and if so it would not surprise if he is picked at loose-head and Alexander returns to tight-head.

Hookers: Tatafu Polota-Nau will have the responsibility of being Australia's key hooker until Stephen Moore returns. Saia Fainga'a did enough for the Reds this season to earn a spot on the bench.

Captain: Elsom. He will hold on to the spot until the World Cup, with Genia or Pocock taking over as leader from 2012.
At the Wallabies' selection table

Growden's team: Ashley-Cooper; Ioane, Horne, Giteau, Mitchell; Barnes, Valentine; Brown, Pocock, Elsom (c), Sharpe, Mumm, Ma'afu, Polota-Nau, Alexander. Res: Fainga'a, Daley (if fit), Douglas, Hodgson, Sheehan, O'Connor, Cooper.

Likely Test team: Beale; Ioane, Ashley-Cooper, Giteau, Mitchell; Barnes, Burgess; Brown, Pocock, Elsom (c), Sharpe, Mumm, Alexander, Polota-Nau, Daley (if fit).

Grumbles has been reading this forum again.

I just don't believe that you could find any justification for leaving out Cooper. And is Hynes out? I missed that. Or just Grumbles doesn't rate him? Hynes at 15 and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 13 works fine for me.

And lastly - maybe I didn't see enough Force games this year. But I really thought we had moved on from Brown. Seems incredible to me that he is still in the mix. Put it this way, Barnes and Brown start, I'll be back with a big tanty.

 

[cyclopath]

How do Rod Davies or Morahan justify being put ahead of Mitchell? Or Hynes? Or Turner?
Sure they have promise, but that's just retarded thinking.
And sure Rocky will be picked, but hardly under no threat - Higgers has plyed the house down, and will be fit again soon.
I would think the benefits of Cooper at 10 would outweigh Beale at 15 if there has to be a "one of them only" policy.

Sorry, I forgot, it's a Growden piece. :

 

[Ruggo]

Put Cooper at 10 against Fiji and see if he shines when paired with another 9. Good chance to throw him to the wolves and force him to make his own tackles. On the other hand when he slots back out of the line he also becomes an extremely potent weapon in counter attack.

 

[simonr]

While I thought brown was rubbish a start if last year, with the lack of options it may be worth giving brown his last chance. If he fails a second time, then we know for sure.

Would be nice to see Cooper start to see how he goes, and same with Beale, but see the point of trying them in separate teams.

 

[liquor box]

it would be interesting to look at how many points Cooper earnt the Reds through his attacking skills v the points he conceded, I think he would be well in front. Add in the couple of strips he made to save points and I think he is being overly criticised as a weak point.

Defence is the worst part of his game without a doubt, but he more than makes up for it in other areas.

Gits running sideways is a weak point in his game, but it is overlooked beacuse his positives outweigh his negatives.

If Cooper is overlooked then what kind of signal does this give to young players coming through? why hang around in Australia for less money when you will not get selected in the national team when you are clearly the best player in you chosen position for an entire season? Cooper must be given first crack at 10 or the system is a joke, if he fails in the first test then drop him fast.

 

[waratahjesus]

it would be interesting to look at how many points Cooper earnt the Reds through his attacking skills v the points he conceded, I think he would be well in front. Add in the couple of strips he made to save points and I think he is being overly criticised as a weak point.

Defence is the worst part of his game without a doubt, but he more than makes up for it in other areas.

Gits running sideways is a weak point in his game, but it is overlooked beacuse his positives outweigh his negatives.

If Cooper is overlooked then what kind of signal does this give to young players coming through? why hang around in Australia for less money when you will not get selected in the national team when you are clearly the best player in you chosen position for an entire season? Cooper must be given first crack at 10 or the system is a joke, if he fails in the first test then drop him fast.

im not sure its just coopers defence that will be under the pump, he seems to turn the ball over a bit as well, albeit he does so why creating something that if it stuck would lead to points and at least he is having a go, but it depends on how they see the structure of the whole tem rather than just picking cooper and hoping he has the same impact.

if he isnt in the 15 he has to be int he 22 as a last 20 impact player, against a tired defence he would be pretty awesome.

 

[cyclopath]

If Cooper is overlooked then what kind of signal does this give to young players coming through? why hang around in Australia for less money when you will not get selected in the national team when you are clearly the best player in you chosen position for an entire season? Cooper must be given first crack at 10 or the system is a joke, if he fails in the first test then drop him fast.

I agree that players who are pretty clearly the best in their position must be rewarded, BUT some stalwarts who have a long record of good play in Tests who might be off the boil a bit should get some leeway.
I'm not saying Gits has always been good, but more the principle.
I would not drop him too fast if he had a bad game - I think he deserves a better chance than that.
I think our best chance over the next 2 years is to have dangerous players like Cooper well in the mix - our forwards should be competitive enough (injuries aside), but the back play needs to really step up from the predictable rubbish of the last few years.

 

[Sully]

If Brown has done his dash with Deans the Houston could be a roughy.

 

[Lindommer]

Houston needs something to ignite his mojo. We all know what he's capable of, and Australia needs his contribution as a back to Cliffy when a rotation or rest is required. I reckon Leroy would/will prosper well under a sustained period of Deans' tutelage. That's not to say Link hasn't done well with the young bloke but Houston needs to be made aware in no uncertain terms more and better is expected, and needed, of him.

 

[simonr]

Watching extra time. How soon can we start suggesting To'omua?

 

[Scarfman]

If you gave me a choice of To'omua or Giteau at 10 I'd take To'omua in a second.