More pressing concerns...

[Pfitzy]

if your anything like Morty ill be on in a jiffy.

:lmao: Not in the way you think, but he isn't :lmao:

 

[Spook]

Harden up Bruce. Try being a Brumbies supporter in this mad nest of rabid QLD and NSW fans. :banghead uke:

 

[Scarfman]

if your anything like Morty ill be on in a jiffy.

:lmao: Not in the way you think, but he isn't :lmao:

I'm old and broken. NTA is bald. Together we make one Morty.

 

[DPK]

if your anything like Morty ill be on in a jiffy.

:lmao: Not in the way you think, but he isn't :lmao:

I'm old and broken. NTA is bald. Together we make one Morty.

Well I'm probably in the 1.2 Carter Strata, so no worries

 

[Pfitzy]

Try being an unreasonable Brumbies supporter in this mad nest of rabid QLD and NSW fans. :banghead uke:

Fixed

 

[Aussie D]

We have a similar problem on the Central Coast as what happens in Sydney. We have 1 dominant club (Avoca have won the past 5 comps) and 3 other teams who make the finals every year (Gosford, Terrigal and Kariong). As a supporter of a club who is in a constant battle for existence I both hate and respect those clubs as I know they have done the hard work to ensure they are at that level. I only wish we could put similar systems into our club so that in a couple of years we could match those teams.

As for the wider problems the ARU leave a lot to be desired as they are too Wallaby focussed (I am aware they are the cash cow) and don't really seem to put any concerted effort into growing the game at park rugby level (I would say grassroots but many equate that to club rugby - park rugby is below even that). I remember years ago when the Wallabies won their first world cup their was an ad the next year trying to get kids playing rugby. Where was that in 2000? Why did the ARU stop running that ad or replace it with another? Do the "development" officers sent out by the various state unions have any accountability for the deveopment they are supposed to be doing (I ask this as we have not seen a development officer at our club in 15 years despte being perennial strugglers - the CC Board also tried to get the local development officer to help out at local club training more often last year without any success)?

Another problem has been the negative rugby played at S14 and national level with a kick-first attitude that doesn't make rugby an attractive proposition for kids to take up. AFL has Auskick (as has been mentioned earlier), league has the maccas program, what does rugby have? Try-rugby - which the local club apparently has to pay for (not sure how true that is but have been told by people who tried to implement it at our club in the past).

 

[Scarfman]

http://www.rugby.com.au/community_r...egister_to_host_a_tryrugby_program,49056.html

Fuck me, I'm discouraged already and I've only read one web page.

 

[DPK]

I Oaks worth playing for? Im still considering joining one of the lower Parra Colts teams.

DPK there are oakhill 1xv players playing lower grade colts

Yup, I know a couple of my mates are.

 

[Bruce Ross]

This thread was initially focussed on the problems of Parramatta Club. I was drawn into it when challenged by Cutter to justify the fact that my club, Sydney Uni, has so many players of obviously first grade standard. I started my reply by observing:

Actually, Cutter, I've almost given up posting on this site for two reasons:

1. I'm offended by the mob ridicule of players who go out on the paddock week after week and give it their best shot; then find they're the butt of every one's clumsy attempts at humour and/or outpourings of bile; and

2. I get abused if I comment on players that I actually know quite a lot about who happen to play for my Club, but then, as in this instance, am challenged to defend the way the Club operates.

The first of these issues provoked a response from Scarfman:

Well Bruce you are welcome to start your own forum and set rules there about not having opinion or a sense of humour. I value your opinion, except when it comes from high on your horse.

This invitation or challenge from one of the operators of this forum to start my own would seem to reinforce my growing impression that I was out of place here. And as for me being down on people expressing "a sense of humour", how many variants of the same joke do you need before it gets to be unfunny? And the butt of the humour is a player who is routinely and regularly criticised season after season by newspaper journos and the towering intellects of the Foxtel commentary team, as well as on forums other than this one.

Tom Carter has also earned the undying hatred of supporters of rival Sydney clubs because of the way that he has lorded it over their players for quite a few seasons. He has very clearly been the dominant centre in that competition and has regularly resorted to gamesmanship to reinforce the point. But that is his cross to bear.

This year he was moved from his natural position to make way for a young superstar. Comparing the two, have Berrick Barnes's performances been so obviously better than Tom Carter's that the latter was made to look like an incompetent, bumbling fool? Have seasoned Wallaby outside-centres like Mortlock and Cross been performing to an incomparably higher standard than the bloke who was pinch-hitting for the sake of his team?

If the player is so hopeless why carry on so relentlessly with more and more absurd comparisons about him? In the judgement of so many of you he's not exactly a tall poppy. So, when you've had enough laughs why not leave the poor bastard alone?

I am pleased to see that The Riddler has started off a thread titled, "Tom Carter - love him, loath him or something in between", which has generated a much more temperate set of responses.

Also in this thread Biffo made a request of me:

could you please favour me with an answer to the question I posed to you a while ago? Yes, the celebrated Tom Carter was the subject. What I asked concerned the outcomes from his highly impressive statistics that you and others presented. I wanted to know to just what Carter's ball carries led, for example. Did they result in tries for others, many metres for others, breaks by others and so on.

I must admit that I don't recall your first request, Biffo, but I imagine I would have misinterpreted as something other than a genuine request for information.

But in answer to the question, you have to appreciate how difficult it is to compile the most basic statistics in a game viewed live or even on replay when other players obscure the view. Try it sometime. As evidence of this there are huge differences between the numbers recorded by different compilers. It would be all but impossible to put together second order statistics of the type you are requesting. I doubt that the franchises have them even for their own players.

Finally there have been a number of generous and flattering comments about me in this thread. They are appreciated, but most people seem to have the idea that I resent criticism, given comments like: "You can't be too precious about this"; "Cop a bit of criticism"; "don't take things personally"; and "Harden up Bruce".

I am immodest enough to think that I can generally hold my own in debate whether on my feet or on the keyboard, and in any case there has been very little actual criticism of me on this site. What I was referring to in my second point above was repeated observations that I shouldn't be talking about Sydney Uni players, or alternatively, that I can only talk about them if I also post about other players.

My position is that I usually only post when I feel I have something useful to say. I have quite detailed knowledge of Tommy Carter whereas I know little about Rob Horne; similarly with Laurie Weeks compared to Ben Alexander; or Todd Louden compared to Michael Cheika. I know a very considerable amount about the Sydney Uni system. If enough people object to me posting about people that I have known well for many years or things that I have played a role in creating, I will withdraw from posting in order to keep the peace. That does not mean that I object to or can't handle criticism.

 

[Lance Free]

Keep doing it Bruce. Your opinions and knowledge are valuable and informative.

As for Tom Carter, well - he's just a bloke playing footy.

In my view, I'm not sure all the criticism he receives is entirely deserved and it's beginning to sound a little 'unhealthy' and like a cracked record.....

 

[Biffo]

Also in this thread Biffo made a request of me:

could you please favour me with an answer to the question I posed to you a while ago? Yes, the celebrated Tom Carter was the subject. What I asked concerned the outcomes from his highly impressive statistics that you and others presented. I wanted to know to just what Carter's ball carries led, for example. Did they result in tries for others, many metres for others, breaks by others and so on.

I must admit that I don't recall your first request, Biffo, but I imagine I would have misinterpreted as something other than a genuine request for information.

But in answer to the question, you have to appreciate how difficult it is to compile the most basic statistics in a game viewed live or even on replay when other players obscure the view. Try it sometime. As evidence of this there are huge differences between the numbers recorded by different compilers. It would be all but impossible to put together second order statistics of the type you are requesting. I doubt that the franchises have them even for their own players.

Thanks for the response, Bruce.

First, let me have a little whinge. I am miffed that you may have thought my enquiry was other than genuine. No, I'm not. Someone else on the board thought my question wasn't genuine and replied with a very silly attack on me.

I have more than passing familiarity with the assembling and analysis of fact, in my professional practice. I am sure that you will agree with me that outcomes are more important than the raw data. I doubt that anyone, even the analyzers of the raw data for the S14 teams, has related outcomes to the stats to try to measure objectively the true worth of a player to his team. However, I am sure that the professional coaches have a pretty good idea of that worth. I have learned to respect the opinions of true professionals over those of amateurs. It is my strong opinion that there is only one thing on this planet that amateurs do better than professionals - and it is not analyzing rugby.

I suspect that many rugby refuseniks on web forums derive their opinions from their knowledge of the game at school or in amateur clubs. The world of professional sport is vastly different.

Please keep posting your opinions and very valuable facts about players that you know. I find these fascinating.

 

[Scarfman]

Bruce, the thing I reckon you're most wrong about is that we all think that Carter is a bumbling, incompetent fool. Have a look at Riddler's thread to get a sense of his standing around here. There is even an in-joke on the forum about players being worth x.x Carters, indicating that he is considered the average S14 player, which is no mean feat.

He polarises people, I would guess, because he is well above average at some things, and well below average at others. On the one hand, he is widely acknowledged as a good team man, on the other hand, some of his on-field antics are worthy of mockery, as you acknowledge.

I think it's a shame that you have become known as the Sydney Uni guy, when you really should be known as the scrum doctor guy. We love that guy. Everything I know about the Bajada I know from you.

Feel free to reply to any of this, but I think it's getting close to invoking Rule 7 for everyone. I'm probably going to continue to find your tone indignant, but I haven't banned anyone for that yet.

 

[Pfitzy]

And moving him to 13 was the move of an utter cock. Not his fault of course (see my signature) but at least when he was there he could have done the simple things he does well.

When he came off the bench at 12 it was good. I want more of it, even with him starting.

 

[Biffo]

And moving him to 13 was the move of an utter cock. Not his fault of course (see my signature) but at least when he was there he could have done the simple things he does well.

When he came off the bench at 12 it was good. I want more of it, even with him starting.

I'm with you. I was mightily relieved by the sight of Tom C entering the battle last Saturday.