Melbourne Rebels 2024

[Goosestep]

My issue with the Sua'ali'i deal and others that preceded it is less about the cash splashed on in, and more about the signal it gives to grafters in the game that their work ethic and commitment is of less value than a punt on an unproven player.

He’s hardly unproven …

 

[Scooter]

its pretty clear that ALL the super franchises are struggling financially, the Canes posted a 1.4 million NZD loss last year. Quite simply there is no format that will deliver a full time, fully professional game in Australia at the wages level (relative to income) players want. We are just kicking the can down the road hoping the B&I Lions and RWC can deliver a financial miracle. A nation wide semi pro comp with our best playing in Europe, Japan (NZ?) is the only sustainable foreseeable future imo. I love the Rebels and would dearly love them to survive, but i cant see that happening. the question is who goes next? Brumbies or Tahs ? Should be the latter but much more likely the former

As the original "union" no chance that the Tahs get the chop.

 

[dru]

I disagree… If Rebels (and all OZ Super Rugby teams) were a commercial success there would be zero talk of cutting teams, regardless of the on-field results

I'm happy recognising that plenty of rugby knowledgable people disagree with me. My point is more that the issue right now is moot. Rugby must survive first, number of teams is secondary.

 

[RebelYell]

The Tarneit thing for me doesn't solve the problem. How do we generate enough revenue from Super Rugby to cover the $5.5 mill salary cap (mandated at 95% spend, I believe)

 

[Strewthcobber]

The Tarneit thing for me doesn't solve the problem. How do we generate enough revenue from Super Rugby to cover the $5.5 mill salary cap (mandated at 95% spend, I believe)

Apparently, you need $13m (ish) to fund a super rugby club each year.

That said, with PE owners, it's not really the clubs problem any more.

But if they didn't get their train station etc approved on the back of these sports investments then it could be quickly become the Rebels and RAs problem again

 

[molman]

Absolutely agree. Basketball and hockey are great examples with vibrant local comps, competitive international teams, pragmatic understanding of where they compete in the sporting landscape.

Is Hockey vibrant in Australia?

- Outside the Australian team's competing in Commonwealth Games, Olympics or other International Tournaments (FIH Pro League) what domestic broadcasted Hockey games are people watching?
- What's the participation numbers relative to population over time?
- What's the growth of juniors relative to junior population numbers?
- What's the growth in access and availability to grounds?
- What the yearly revenue of the Australian domestic competitions?

Basketball I agree has good traction coupled with good reported growth rates in the AU & NZ marketplaces, but it is also a very different sport with different dynamics in the impact an individual player can have on the team and even total team size.

I doubt it is the NBL competition that is resonating with youth (or even arguably the broader public) but that giant that is the NBA which drives participation and interest in much the same way that the global nature of Football (Soccer) is driven by the FIFA Worldcups, EPL, Bundesliga, LaLiga etc such that domestic comps can almost ride on the coattails of this general public interest.

Rugby's unique challenge (compared to either of the sports you've mentioned) is and has always been a marketplace with two other strong games that contend for similar athletes and public interest - those being AFL & NRL who are magnitudes larger than any of the other sports atm, and outside the Rugby Worldcup every four years there is no global tournament like the EPL or NBA driving local interest. Maybe it'll be the Top 14 or URC in the future.

Do people categorically know that current RA leadership don't have a clear understanding of Rugby's market position?

 

[Scooter]

Is Hockey vibrant in Australia?

- Outside the Australian team's competing in Commonwealth Games, Olympics or other International Tournaments (FIH Pro League) what domestic broadcasted Hockey games are people watching?
- What's the participation numbers relative to population over time?
- What's the growth of juniors relative to junior population numbers?
- What's the growth in access and availability to grounds?
- What the yearly revenue of the Australian domestic competitions?

Basketball I agree has good traction coupled with good reported growth rates in the AU & NZ marketplaces, but it is also a very different sport with different dynamics in the impact an individual player can have on the team and even total team size.

I doubt it is the NBL competition that is resonating with youth (or even arguably the broader public) but that giant that is the NBA which drives participation and interest in much the same way that the global nature of Football (Soccer) is driven by the FIFA Worldcups, EPL, Bundesliga, LaLiga etc such that domestic comps can almost ride on the coattails of this general public interest.

Rugby's unique challenge (compared to either of the sports you've mentioned) is and has always been a marketplace with two other strong games that contend for similar athletes and public interest - those being AFL & NRL who are magnitudes larger than any of the other sports atm, and outside the Rugby Worldcup every four years there is no global tournament like the EPL or NBA driving local interest. Maybe it'll be the Top 14 or URC in the future.

Do people categorically know that current RA leadership don't have a clear understanding of Rugby's market position?

Molman, I wouldn't be mentioning hockey in the same breathe as the NBL. The Hockey One League is telecast on 7plus.

But I wouldn't have thought it was anywhere near the popularity of the NBL.

I can't comment on participation numbers.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Molman, I wouldn't be mentioning hockey in the same breathe as the NBL. The Hockey One League is telecast on 7plus.

But I wouldn't have thought it was anywhere near the popularity of the NBL.

I can't comment on participation numbers.

Basketball Australia claim 1.3m people play basketball in Australia. Which would be rubbery at best.

 

[Dctarget]

Rebels to make finals and be cut me thinks.

 

[Dctarget]

On that, Kellaway and Proctor with Leota should add some needed smarts to this team to stop those outrageous defensive lapses.

 

[KevinO]

Molman, I wouldn't be mentioning hockey in the same breathe as the NBL. The Hockey One League is telecast on 7plus.

But I wouldn't have thought it was anywhere near the popularity of the NBL.

I can't comment on participation numbers.

Hockey is seriously underfunded. Hockey participation numbers though is huge. Melbourne would have at least 20 clubs with more the 10 teams at each. Altona is a small top league club, has 5 mens, 4 women's, and probably about 12 junior teams.

Majority of the Aussie men's team are based in Perth most of the year, they normally go to play in the IPL to make some money.

 

[Dan54]

I think at times we comparing apples and oranges when we talk of measuring sports popularity by particapation for purposes of it being commercial. For years there have been more soccer players in NZ than rugby, also basketball, but that doesn't really generate into bums on seats or even on tv, because people want to see the top layer/s in sport in general. In say Aus(or NZ) if Manchester United, or say Chicago Bulls came to town, they sell out I think. Isn't golf most popular sport in most countries, would hardly sell out on a weekly basis though. I play golf, but in no way am I a golf fan.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

I think at times we comparing apples and oranges when we talk of measuring sports popularity by particapation for purposes of it being commercial. For years there have been more soccer players in NZ than rugby, also basketball, but that doesn't really generate into bums on seats or even on tv, because people want to see the top layer/s in sport in general. In say Aus(or NZ) if Manchester United, or say Chicago Bulls came to town, they sell out I think. Isn't golf most popular sport in most countries, would hardly sell out on a weekly basis though. I play golf, but in no way am I a golf fan.

Back when Pulver was in charge, RA did a study into value of a fan and that was one of the driving factors of increased funding into the women's 7s program. In essence, they worked out the dollar value of each different sub sector of fan and worked out that an active player was the highest category of spending in the rugby economy (tickets to games, memberships, tv subscriptions, merchandise etc). So it might be different for other sports as noted but with rugby in Australia there is a strong correlation.

 

[Dan54]

Back when Pulver was in charge, RA did a study into value of a fan and that was one of the driving factors of increased funding into the women's 7s program. In essence, they worked out the dollar value of each different sub sector of fan and worked out that an active player was the highest category of spending in the rugby economy (tickets to games, memberships, tv subscriptions, merchandise etc). So it might be different for other sports as noted but with rugby in Australia there is a strong correlation.

Yep not suggesting you don't take note of player numbers, but I would suggest for judging what sport is the most populat with viewing numbers is different to how many play, regardless. I think people want to see World class players (or at least top level) when they watc sport on tv or pay the $s is all. We often discuss how many are at games, or how popular it is on tv it seems and gnash our teeth if they not what we expect etc, so I not sure how we should judge sports popularity. Is it more important to have kids/people play, or watch the game?

 

[Strewthcobber]

The NBL had 1.1m through the gate this year at an average of 7.2k. Nearing 80% capacity

That's a sensational season for them. Basketball's growth continues

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

Yep not suggesting you don't take note of player numbers, but I would suggest for judging what sport is the most populat with viewing numbers is different to how many play, regardless. I think people want to see World class players (or at least top level) when they watc sport on tv or pay the $s is all. We often discuss how many are at games, or how popular it is on tv it seems and gnash our teeth if they not what we expect etc, so I not sure how we should judge sports popularity. Is it more important to have kids/people play, or watch the game?

Surely there is a higher propensity to support a sport you have previously played?

The difference with basketball there is an extremely clear competitive class difference between NBL and NBA (as with the A League against just about every other soccer league) which as rugby fans we don't see in our competitions (Super and TRC). For most fans or casual viewers there isn't an alternative product (there certainly isn't in NRL and AFL for that matter).

Imagine how much money how much money Basketball Australia or FFA would rake in if they were getting a cut of all the merchandise or TV rights (or things like game pass) for related things in Australia compared to if RA did? It would be extremely disproportionate.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Hockey is seriously underfunded. Hockey participation numbers though is huge. Melbourne would have at least 20 clubs with more the 10 teams at each. Altona is a small top league club, has 5 mens, 4 women's, and probably about 12 junior teams.

Majority of the Aussie men's team are based in Perth most of the year, they normally go to play in the IPL to make some money.

Ausplay has hockey having around around 50% more participants than rugby union (which surprised me!). Pretty much the same as rugby league participation.

Both dwarfed by basketball. Around 6 times more surveyed people play bball than rugby union

 

[PhilClinton]

Hockey and basketball numbers would be combined male and female? Both sports have a significantly lower barrier for entry for girls to play the sport than rugby.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Hockey and basketball numbers would be combined male and female? Both sports have a significantly lower barrier for entry for girls to play the sport than rugby.

Not sure it matters for this discussion too much, but for adult men, hockey and rugby union are about the same. 50% more rugby league players, and 5 to 6 times more basketball players.

For boys, for each one hockey player, there are two rugby union players, 3 rugby league players and 6 basketballers

 

[stoff]

Basketball Australia claim 1.3m people play basketball in Australia. Which would be rubbery at best.

Whose participation claims aren’t. My local club claims 5,700 players across junior and senior leagues. I also cant think of many people I know who don’t play, used to play, or have a kid playing. There are such low barriers to entry.