Making rugby No 1

[WorkingClassRugger]

appreciate the sentiment and to be honest i'd agree with that but regardless of this even cutting pay to extended squad members would likely only serve to entice these players to consider overseas competitions of similar standard to their level but with better financial gains and thus decrease local player depth. Magners League, Top League, lower table top 14 and premiership teams or possibly decent championship and super 10 (local italy) teams would suddenly become much more appealing and realistic options to them if they feel they aren't being payed appropriately for their quality relative to global valuation of players. In this world market, cutting wages just isn't an option anymore unless you wish to risk exodus.

What's needed is for SANZAR to look to create greater value in Super Rugby to generate greater revenue streams. The ARU will need to get creative and innovative in the approach to do this but its not impossible and someone must realise that building the base creates that value in the long run.

As for Sevens. Seek AOC funds, don't invest it into the current 7s squad. A group of investors approached the ARU regarding investing in the 7s squad. Look at that model. Allow then to provide the extra funds to develop and contract players. Use the AOC funds to introduce tag rugby to the youngest primary aged children from years 3 or 4. Run it in Summer and in my opinion watch Rugby grow. Five years into the program introduce 15s Rugby into these same school as a winter sport and look for articulation.

Sevens is to use code war language 'our weapon' and its a potetnially huge advantage to move the game ahead far further than it currently stands.

 

[Nusadan]

Quoting Jets
Also sevens is a great opportunity to introduce women to rugby.

I know that this is a terrible thing to say. I won't watch it and i never will.

I enjoyed watching the women playing in the Dubai sevens on TV as much as I did the mens if not more...

Given the increasing emphasis on strength and conditioning by men, such things can cloud the skills set that could have been potentially better exhibited by the players whereas the women have yet as a whole gone to that extent and thus depend more on their skills which makes it enjoyable to watch...I was quite amazed at the level of skills exhibited by the fairer sex, like long passes reaching their target for example.

The women simply just provide another aspect of rugby that I enjoy watching, so EFTTA6OR7, give yourself a chance, mate, and make the effort to watch and appreciate that...

 

[Karl]

So how can this site and us as individuals, make any of this happen. It's a nice thought, and an interesting conversation, but can GAGR get anyone's ear? Put forward a sort of "business plan" with a mission, goals, tasks and timelines to at least get the ball rolling where it matters?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I enjoyed watching the women playing in the Dubai sevens on TV as much as I did the mens if not more...

Given the increasing emphasis on strength and conditioning by men, such things can cloud the skills set that could have been potentially better exhibited by the players whereas the women have yet as a whole gone to that extent and thus depend more on their skills which makes it enjoyable to watch...I was quite amazed at the level of skills exhibited by the fairer sex, like long passes reaching their target for example.

The women simply just provide another aspect of rugby that I enjoy watching, so EFTTA6OR7, give yourself a chance, mate, and make the effort to watch and appreciate that...

The Womens event at the 09 7s WC in Dubai was great veiwing. Easily as enjoyable as the mens.

 

[Jets]

appreciate the sentiment and to be honest i'd agree with that but regardless of this even cutting pay to extended squad members would likely only serve to entice these players to consider overseas competitions of similar standard to their level but with better financial gains and thus decrease local player depth. Magners League, Top League, lower table top 14 and premiership teams or possibly decent championship and super 10 (local italy) teams would suddenly become much more appealing and realistic options to them if they feel they aren't being payed appropriately for their quality relative to global valuation of players. In this world market, cutting wages just isn't an option anymore unless you wish to risk exodus.

I think you will find there are many guys who are willing to forgo money overseas to stay in Australia and try and break into a super team. I know of guys who have passed full super contracts to stay in the EPS in their home state. That is a massive pay cut but they are willing to back themselves. Also if they do establish themselves in the Super team their value overseas will be that much high. There are plenty of reasons not to go and the $200,000-$500,000 that isn't been paid to these players at each of the teams would go along way in Development $$. That could be $2.5M spent on development of the game that just isn't happening at the moment.

 

[AngrySeahorse]

Sevens is a good way of introducing kids at a younger age to Rugby but they'd need to be careful and make sure there's a planned transition/route to the 15-a-side game. Otherwise you're going to end up with a lot of 7s players and fans with a limited impact on the 15-a-side game. I saw an interesting interview with the English national 7s coach where he talked about how originally they had wanted to use 7s to develop backs for the 15-a-side national team. But now there are too many established backs ahead of the 7s players. So 7s is seen as a chance for the players who aren't quite good enough for the 15s or specialist 7s players.

With 7s becoming an olympic sport I don't think it will be too long before 7s stands on it's own as a sport in it's own right and rather than producing players in a feeder system for the 15s it could actually become a competitor for the pool of talent. It depends again on whether there's a clear path for youngesters from 7s at a young age to 15s.

One thing that's helped grow the game here in Ireland is tag rugby. It allows people who would have no desire to play contact rugby to experience the game. There are leagues for company teams and I've seen people who had no interest at all in rugby become big fans of Rugby due to their participation in tag. Also for younger kids it's a good introduction without having the physical contact that can put some kids, and maybe more importantly some parents, off the game.

But as a few people have mentioned Rugby 15s biggest selling point IMHO is that it's an all inclusive game. No matter what size or shape you are there's a position in a rugby team for you. Where in other sports the chunky kid might be left on the sidelines (including in 7s) Rugby will welcome them with open arms.

Getting Rugby into schools would be a big plus and could be coupled with some kind of campaign to battle the growing child obesity problems. The next few years would be a perfect time to do something like this to capitalise on the extra interest generated by the Lions tour and their usual visits to selected schools.

I agree about the issues of making sure 7's exposure transitions into 15's, as a forward I feel the game of 7's limits people of larger sizes (though I myself have a frame that can work for 7's & 15's) but it is a worry for larger or slower people if this is going to be what is used to get people into our game. I agree with the use of Tag Rugby, with school girl rugby the transition I'd like to see is tag rugby &/or 7's at primary age in the summer (& regular Unisex Rugby in the colder months), then 10's rugby once they hit highschool (adds a second row, starts giving the bigger players a more level playing field, smaller players get used to a bit more traffic), then 16-18 onward 15's winter & 7's/10's in the summer as another option.

I think perhaps I should clear up the Make rugby No 1, probably a bad choice of thread title, but reason I gave it that was to try and stop the mindset that we can't do this or that because we are only No 3 or 4 in winter sport, I have had that said to me so many times when I wonder why we don't do things differently. I think one of things that worries me most is the worry 'if we broaden our player base ,we can compromise our values' mindset, as I think this is a reason a number of people think it a GPS school,or as I got when I first came over the 'Rah Rahs'. At the risk of being boring I will repeat I grew up where Rugby was played by everyone, no matter what shape or or size, and no matter what financial position, and if we don't want that here in Australia, we should just pack the game in. I know it hard to break down, club I involved with in Brisbane is Logan City, an area on the lower end of the socioeconomic scale, and I have been amazed at comments that I have heard at games with some of established clubs about whether we should even be playing game etc, it not something I ever experienced in rugby in NZ. Although game is now professional so it doesn't happen anymore, but listen to most Ex All Blacks and they will say one of NZ's strengths is that you could have a front row etc etc, made up of lawyers, Farmers,Meatworkers or Garbos , and they maybe Pakeha,Maori or Pacific islander etc, and is probably one of reasons I grew up loving game so much, it was and still is in my opinion the game for everyone!!

There are parts in Oz that are similar to the experience you've had in NZ Dan but unfortunately that attitude isnt as widespread as it is in NZ. I know in Newcastle we have a few clubs that think their shit doesnt stink but the overall feel is that Rugby is not an elitist sport, at least where I come from it doesnt seem any different to the demographics of other local sports.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

There should be a clear progression from tag to 7s to 10s and finally 15s, that's for sure.

 

[Ruggo]

There are parts in Oz that are similar to the experience you've had in NZ Dan but unfortunately that attitude isnt as widespread as it is in NZ. I know in Newcastle we have a few clubs that think their shit doesnt stink but the overall feel is that Rugby is not an elitist sport, at least where I come from it doesnt seem any different to the demographics of other local sports.

Newcastle sounds very much like Darwin.

 

[Ruggo]

We used to have sevens during the school holidays over the Christmas / New Year period when we had a wet season competition. It used to be how the clubs kept thier juniors playing when numbers took a beating due to families going interstate over the festive season.

 

[PaarlBok]

There should be a clear progression from tag to 7s to 10s and finally 15s, that's for sure.

In the ideal SA world it works from 15 to 10 and 7s. Our kids dont play tag.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

In the ideal SA world it works from 15 to 10 and 7s. Our kids dont play tag.

We need a differing approach here as Rugby in school is a rather closed sport. Tag provides the ability to start kids in development process at the kindergarten (ages 4/5) at the beginning of school. From there with sevens you can introduce contact be it not as intense as 15s from probably in the 3rd and 4th grades and 10s in the 5th and 6th. High School 15s would then be a real option with enough kids playing to make it a winter based sport and maintain 7s in the Summer.

 

[Dan54]

I like the idea of 7s over summer etc to get kids into rugby, but not at the expense of the Tag or 15s during winter so we can get all kids into it.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I like the idea of 7s over summer etc to get kids into rugby, but not at the expense of the Tag or 15s during winter so we can get all kids into it.

It wouldn't be at the expense of the 15 man game. Tag and 7s as part of the schools development structure would be summer sports. When enough kids are introduced and developed 15s can be introduced in the winter to get as many kids articulating from the first point of contact at the youngest possible age right through the school system. Could even achieve this earlier if clubs actively promoted themselves as part of this program.

 

[PaarlBok]

Could even achieve this earlier if clubs actively promoted themselves as part of this program.

Thats an interesting one and probably where your problem is. Do clubs do enough to promote rugby at schools from U7 age level? Thats where ARU should invest.

Our kids play contact from U7 (10 a side , ballet rugby) from U9 they are still 10 a side but with 5 forwards and 5 backs playing on a quater field with scrums and lineouts and full field 15 from U10.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Thats an interesting one and probably where your problem is. Do clubs do enough to promote rugby at schools from U7 age level? Thats where ARU should invest.

Our kids play contact from U7 (10 a side , ballet rugby) from U9 they are still 10 a side but with 5 forwards and 5 backs playing on a quater field with scrums and lineouts and full field 15 from U10.

Never come across a junior club with any links let alone development links with any school. If you want to play for the most part you have to seek out the club.

 

[yourmatesam]

Never come across a junior club with any links let alone development links with any school. If you want to play for the most part you have to seek out the club.

And this is the single biggest hurdle that any Rugby Union Development Officer faces - getting clubs to engage with the schools. The overwhelming majority of junior clubs expect the ARU or their local DO to be actively recruiting players to their club - yet the clubs refuse to get involved with the schools and expect the DO to front up to their rego night with a swag of kids under their arms.

 

[PaarlBok]

And this is the single biggest hurdle that any Rugby Union Development Officer faces - getting clubs to engage with the schools. The overwhelming majority of junior clubs expect the ARU or their local DO to be actively recruiting players to their club - yet the clubs refuse to get involved with the schools and expect the DO to front up to their rego night with a swag of kids under their arms.

It make a lot of sense for clubs to sell their product through schools.

 

[Melbourne Terrace]

how hard would it be for a club to actually host a summer sevens tournament? minimum would need Referee's (they aren't exactly going to have hectic schedules at that time of year), someone trained in first aid, two pitches and an admin tent.

it's not like they have to be on every week anyway.

i'll be pushing my old school to re-enter the local schools sevens tournament in march. the new head of rugby is a former sevens player and replaced a purist who withdrew us from the tournament because he preferred to have an extra 15's training session instead. Pending permission from the head of sport, it will be open to all students too try out for. i hope other schools and club teams can do the same as it really is the best introduction to the game for complete newbies. (plus the current club '10's' tournament is such a half arsed exercise for the seniors.)

 

[Bardon]

One great thing about tag rugby is that not only can you use it to introduce kids to rugby at a younger age, you can actually use it to recruit kids that aren't even born yet. Tag rugby in companies encourages both men and women to play and most of them wouldn't be big rugby fans starting out. Most of the people who are playing tag now in company leagues would be having kids in 5-10 years time.

Most parents influence their kids to play the sports they played themselves. Some overtly and some subconciously. It could be little things like buying the kid a rugby ball instead of a soccer ball. Parents who've enjoyed tag will also put pressure on schools that don't currently have it available to introduce it so their kids can play. It wont happen in all cases. But if you hook more parents you'll see a return in future generations.

 

[yourmatesam]

It make a lot of sense for clubs to sell their product through schools.

I agree Paarl, the problem is though that they don't. Hence the whinging starts that the ARU don't do enough for the junior clubs. The system isn't perfect (and never will be) but clubs need to give themselves a leg up to ensure their future and that future rests in their relationships with their local schools.