Making rugby No 1

[qwerty51]

Super rugby franchises need to sign up boys from u16 levels like just about every other country. We're so far behind in junior development.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

I like the fact that rugby has limited appeal. I don't like the way it's confined to private schools, though. I went to a state school that played rugby, and we were learnt rugby values along with the game. If you broaden the rugby playing base, you compromise rugby values, and that's essentially the death of rugby right there.

I guess that's why we differ so much in most opinions. I think the more that play the game, the better regardless of absolutely anything.

Assume you are still actively involved in the game though, unlike me whose just a fan these days. I would probably have a slightly different opinion if I was.

 

[PaarlBok]

Ok now that rugby for us is over for the year, I would like to ask some opinions.
The reason I ask is a comment someone on board made when I commented that I though it was not great to have Qld club finals being played at same time as Wallabies were playing their World Cup opening game, when it was said quite waspishly "we are hear to develop players ,not for your social life'. I though about comment for awhile, and didn't really take it personally or anything and it struck me one of great problems in my opinion of making game here more popular is this very opinion. If QRU's job (and I assume the chairmen of premier clubs) is to develop players for Reds etc, who's job is it to actually promote the game as one for everyone etc. That in my humble opinion is where QRU (can't speak about others as no experience of them) has it wrong, look at Aussie rules, they seem to bend over backwards to promote their game as one for ALL kids to play ,and do a bloody good job of getting it into schools etc, where as it seems (and I maybe wrong) that in rugby if it is not a GPS school,or one of 'old school clubs', I not sure anyone feels they are particularly wanted in the code. I think if we want to develop players etc in Australia, the best way is getting as many people of any standard playing the game, the cream almost always rises and eventually their will be a depth of rugby talent here to rival NZ's. It one of the biggest differences I have seen between Aus and NZ on how game is administrated, in my experience which admittedly is only at club level (and a little higher in NZ). I not trying to start shitfights or anything ,just a good discussion whilst in off season.

The CC final was a week after the WC final and it draws more spectators to the Stadium?

To grow rugby in any country is to grow it at the bottom structure. Thats where you start. If you get one under7 player at school to play, he bring his mum, dad and sussie, boetie watching his matches. Thats where you grow the culture of the game. Easy as pie!

 

[PaarlBok]

Super rugby franchises need to sign up boys from u16 levels like just about every other country. We're so far behind in junior development.

From a SA perspective it sound duff. You need to grow your schoolboy base at the very bottom.

The SA rugby structure fast line = schoolboy, Rugby Academy at provincial level, U19, U21, Vodacom, CC, S15. CC can be a long drive from a small province to a S15 franchise. Slow line = schoolboy, student for 4 years, Varsity Cup, Vodacom, CC & S15. That student for 4 years we lost a lot of rugby talent when they have to study and play rugby. Priotising means study and most will play Koshuis (Boarding School) League and end up qualify for a professional career and maybe play club rugby on saturdays.

 

[Swat]

I don't think the wales method will work here. The thing we are always going to suffer from is our saturated sports market.

No matter how you look at it there's a huge variety of sports available to Australian kids. Why not promote it as a sport for all shapes and sizes. It's the sport you can play with your mates, what kids don't want to play with their mates. Why do you think cricket is so popular? Everyone can play it. I absolutely love cricket in all forms but as a sport it is a bit shit (when you think about it, it makes no sense whatsoever). Why do I love it? People always ask me why I spend half my weekend standing around in a paddock in the sun but I love it because it's a way to hang out with my mates. It's an organised way to catch up with mates. Rugby is that, plus fitness.

 

[PaarlBok]

No matter how you look at it there's a huge variety of sports available to Australian kids. Why not promote it as a sport for all shapes and sizes. It's the sport you can play with your mates, what kids don't want to play with their mates. Why do you think cricket is so popular? Everyone can play it. I absolutely love cricket in all forms but as a sport it is a bit shit (when you think about it, it makes no sense whatsoever). Why do I love it? People always ask me why I spend half my weekend standing around in a paddock in the sun but I love it because it's a way to hang out with my mates. It's an organised way to catch up with mates. Rugby is that, plus fitness.

Very true. First the school have to provide the sport type. Kids have to play it and in their language it must be cool to play that kind of sport. At Paarl Gim its cool to play rugby, hockey and cricket. Its part of the school culture. Once you get that, you are on your way of growing the sport. Thats the same thing with our qouta system. No matter they try and get it sorted at the top, players simply wont get through the system, needs to be adressed at the very bottom and grow it from there.

 

[Ruggo]

Sevens is a game that should be taken to indiginous communities. The game really suits their athletic and arobic strengths. It is one of the reasons they are so good at Aussie Rules.

 

[Melbourne Terrace]

what wcr said about sevens.

sevens is the key to unlocking the none private realm in nsw/qld and the none rugby schools in AFL Land. Sevens is so under utilised when it could be Rugby's answer to auskick. If you offered high school (or primary) students the opportunity to play a one or two day tournament of sevens in summer terms that anyone could apply for (regardless of what winter sport they have registered for), it could be much more successful as it's no where as hard to pick up technically or rules wise as 15's. Given the opportunity, Teenagers will always want to show off their capabilities sporting wise and would have a go at it either for something different or to prove they are just as good at any game.

There are also schools in vic that have shown interest in starting a rugby team but are concerned about not being able to fill a team. I know that the VRU are addressing this right now and if they don't start a third tier, there has been a suggestion to start a weekly sevens tournament instead for such schools. TBH there should have already been a push to get clubs to play sevens regularly in summer now.

- State Associations to organise open entry tournaments for any school that wants in
- allow non rugby kids to play and make it mid-week so it doesn't interfere with their regular sport
- Promote the crap out of the fact that it is now olympic
- More Summer Sevens Carnivals for Clubs, make rugby part of their year round life.

 

[darkhorse]

Its a great idea Hawko. I was speaking to a Welsh lad about Rugby and he said that Rugby was promoted in Wales in a different way.

He said that Rugby was invented so that no matter what shape of size a kid was, they had an equally important role to play in the team. Small kids, fast kids, tall kids all had an important part to play and because no other game could be so inclusive, it was promoted as the game of choice for young kids. Not a bad angle...

Rugby. Everyone can play.

Agree completely with you Joe Mac. They should be marketing Rugby as all inclusive. Any race, body shape or even gender (maybe a slightly harder sell) is welcome and can be a superstar if you work hard enough.

 

[Bardon]

Sevens is a good way of introducing kids at a younger age to Rugby but they'd need to be careful and make sure there's a planned transition/route to the 15-a-side game. Otherwise you're going to end up with a lot of 7s players and fans with a limited impact on the 15-a-side game. I saw an interesting interview with the English national 7s coach where he talked about how originally they had wanted to use 7s to develop backs for the 15-a-side national team. But now there are too many established backs ahead of the 7s players. So 7s is seen as a chance for the players who aren't quite good enough for the 15s or specialist 7s players.

With 7s becoming an olympic sport I don't think it will be too long before 7s stands on it's own as a sport in it's own right and rather than producing players in a feeder system for the 15s it could actually become a competitor for the pool of talent. It depends again on whether there's a clear path for youngesters from 7s at a young age to 15s.

One thing that's helped grow the game here in Ireland is tag rugby. It allows people who would have no desire to play contact rugby to experience the game. There are leagues for company teams and I've seen people who had no interest at all in rugby become big fans of Rugby due to their participation in tag. Also for younger kids it's a good introduction without having the physical contact that can put some kids, and maybe more importantly some parents, off the game.

But as a few people have mentioned Rugby 15s biggest selling point IMHO is that it's an all inclusive game. No matter what size or shape you are there's a position in a rugby team for you. Where in other sports the chunky kid might be left on the sidelines (including in 7s) Rugby will welcome them with open arms.

Getting Rugby into schools would be a big plus and could be coupled with some kind of campaign to battle the growing child obesity problems. The next few years would be a perfect time to do something like this to capitalise on the extra interest generated by the Lions tour and their usual visits to selected schools.

 

[Army_Gav]

MT is on the money, especially down here.

The VRU is trying hard to push into the public schools, especially in the battleground of the North & West.

I think the biggest issue is the ability to retain players at a club level, post U18s for example. Typically the outer suburban clubs in Melbourne are great with junior participation yet, suffer with Colts and above.

 

[Dan54]

Hey I real pleased to see there are plenty obviously thinking that rugby could market itself better, and although I don't really like 7s certainly agree it a good way to bring people into game. I agree wholeheartedly with Major on believing rugby has appeal for a wide range of people, but that could be we grew up with game in NZ where everyone is encouraged to play, I always thought as a kid way back in 60s that there was a place for every body shape etc in game. I worry when I hear but here we have football, league, rules etc, apart from Aus rules same games are played in NZ , Wales etc, I personally don't think these games are as good as rugby, so I don't accept that as an excuse for sitting back and allowing players to go to them without a fight. A classic case I thought was in Qld last year (and I believe next year) club comp didn't start until end of April, so non committed players were wandering off to play Mungoball to get some play, it certainly hurt the number of players in our lower grades especially at our club. I know it hard as Unions tend to be made up by club chairmen etc, who feel their job is to protect their club, and not really spread the game.

 

[Karl]

If you broaden the rugby playing base, you compromise rugby values, and that's essentially the death of rugby right there.

I could not disagree more. There is no evidence whatsoever to support this statement. In fact, history, across industries and cultures, is replete with examples of a simple rule - If you're not Growing, you're Dying. This type of elitist, isolationist attitude is what will be the death of Rugby. Cricket's values are not compromised by its popularity or broad playing base (the problems in cricket have different roots) and there is no reason why part of the reason for Rugby's expansion cannot in fact be an appeal to parents who WANT their children exposed to those values.

A few common things from this thread so far:

- ultimately a sport is like a pyramid and the base is the Juniors. Get things happening in Clubs at u6 to u9 and watch the follow on effect. I think Clubs need to be encouraged, from the top down, and by encouraged I mean offered KPI based funding, to engage more actively with the community and the local schools that are NOT traditional Rugby schools. The ARU has the whole Try Rugby thing happening, the QRU has this http://www.redsrugby.com.au/GrassrootsRugby/Schools.aspx Its not like nothing is being done, it just needs to be amped up, co-ordinated better and funded.
- Schools - Rugby needs to expand beyond Private Schools and the GPS (etc) competitions. A School based 7's comp might be one way to do that. Ultimately its about DECIDING to do it and allocating resources. School Holiday Rugby camps run like the AusKick model is another beachhead that needs to be taken.
- the Rugby 7's Olympic Connection is massivley under-leveraged. Possibly the best kept secret going around.
- a Summer 7's comp would be a great way to give Rugby fans something to watch over the break and with the right sponsorship and Network TV would be brilliant for exposure.

So, all of that needs Funding and a co-ordinated, multi-pronged approach with a decent marketing plan, heaps of PR, good collateral and champions in the right places who are motivated, incentivised and empowered.

Funding can come from a variety of places. The ARU, the QRU and it's State counterparts, Federal, State and Local Government from Communities, Health, Youth and Sports etc) budgets, Sponsors (particularly for the Tournament type initiatives like a Summer 7's) and allocation of a portion of the Revenue from those tournaments.

And lastly - I think the goal of making Rugby No1 is a bit silly. The goal, the GOALS, should be based around achieving growth and other very specific things like "X Number of new Schools running a Rugby Program by 2015" and "A Summer 7's Tournament televised on a Major Network with a National high profile sponsor by [insert]", "An increase of 25% in Junior Club Rugby enrollments from u6 to u9 by 2014" etc.

 

[ON85]

And this has to do with rugby?

You're better placed to answer that since you elected to use the AFL as your yardstick in terms of National success stories. I'm simply pointing out that it's a flawed view

 

[Schadenfreude]

And lastly - I think the goal of making Rugby No1 is a bit silly. The goal, the GOALS, should be based around achieving growth and other very specific things like "X Number of new Schools running a Rugby Program by 2015" and "A Summer 7's Tournament televised on a Major Network with a National high profile sponsor by [insert]", "An increase of 25% in Junior Club Rugby enrollments from u6 to u9 by 2014" etc.

If I were to delve into management speak "Making Rugby Number 1" is like a company vision - or mission statement. The goals you've pointed out above are how you get there.

I also really like those goals you've mentioned since they are all about growing the game instead of blanket "We want to be number one" goals ... which are actually just bullshit.

 

[Bardon]

Although it would be nice to think that National Unions looked at their goals in terms of wider participation, number of players, number of teams (both overall and in new areas) more and more we hear about increasing market share. Which basically equates to growing the audience for the sport resulting in higher revenue from TV and making it more attractive to sponsors. IMO this view is dangerous as it can lead to a soccer style set up where most of the wealth goes to the top clubs, unions and players while funding at grass roots level is eroded.

I come from a working class family and grew up in a area where rugby wasn't even an option. So as a Leinster fan of many years (and former season ticket holder for many years) I can attest that broading the fan base of rugby at least in my chase hasn't eroded the values of rugby. It was the values that fans and players alike hold to that drew me to the game in the first place. The fact that fans can mix happily in the stands and trade banter and then go for a pint together afterwards no matter what your alliegence.

I think there are many fans in other sports who are disillusioned with the behaviour of both fans and players of those sports who would love what rugby (the game and the wider rugby community) have to offer. However I'm fearful that rugby is starting to go down the same road of other sports in terms of player behaviour. Especially in relation to things like simulation, looking for penalties or trying to get an opponent sent off. I just hope someone puts the break on this behaviour soon or the values of rugby will be deminished.

 

[Dan54]

I think perhaps I should clear up the Make rugby No 1, probably a bad choice of thread title, but reason I gave it that was to try and stop the mindset that we can't do this or that because we are only No 3 or 4 in winter sport, I have had that said to me so many times when I wonder why we don't do things differently. I think one of things that worries me most is the worry 'if we broaden our player base ,we can compromise our values' mindset, as I think this is a reason a number of people think it a GPS school,or as I got when I first came over the 'Rah Rahs'. At the risk of being boring I will repeat I grew up where Rugby was played by everyone, no matter what shape or or size, and no matter what financial position, and if we don't want that here in Australia, we should just pack the game in. I know it hard to break down, club I involved with in Brisbane is Logan City, an area on the lower end of the socioeconomic scale, and I have been amazed at comments that I have heard at games with some of established clubs about whether we should even be playing game etc, it not something I ever experienced in rugby in NZ. Although game is now professional so it doesn't happen anymore, but listen to most Ex All Blacks and they will say one of NZ's strengths is that you could have a front row etc etc, made up of lawyers, Farmers,Meatworkers or Garbos , and they maybe Pakeha,Maori or Pacific islander etc, and is probably one of reasons I grew up loving game so much, it was and still is in my opinion the game for everyone!!

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I could not disagree more. There is no evidence whatsoever to support this statement. In fact, history, across industries and cultures, is replete with examples of a simple rule - If you're not Growing, you're Dying. This type of elitist, isolationist attitude is what will be the death of Rugby. Cricket's values are not compromised by its popularity or broad playing base (the problems in cricket have different roots) and there is no reason why part of the reason for Rugby's expansion cannot in fact be an appeal to parents who WANT their children exposed to those values.

A few common things from this thread so far:

- ultimately a sport is like a pyramid and the base is the Juniors. Get things happening in Clubs at u6 to u9 and watch the follow on effect. I think Clubs need to be encouraged, from the top down, and by encouraged I mean offered KPI based funding, to engage more actively with the community and the local schools that are NOT traditional Rugby schools. The ARU has the whole Try Rugby thing happening, the QRU has this http://www.redsrugby.com.au/GrassrootsRugby/Schools.aspx Its not like nothing is being done, it just needs to be amped up, co-ordinated better and funded.
- Schools - Rugby needs to expand beyond Private Schools and the GPS (etc) competitions. A School based 7's comp might be one way to do that. Ultimately its about DECIDING to do it and allocating resources. School Holiday Rugby camps run like the AusKick model is another beachhead that needs to be taken.
- the Rugby 7's Olympic Connection is massivley under-leveraged. Possibly the best kept secret going around.
- a Summer 7's comp would be a great way to give Rugby fans something to watch over the break and with the right sponsorship and Network TV would be brilliant for exposure.

So, all of that needs Funding and a co-ordinated, multi-pronged approach with a decent marketing plan, heaps of PR, good collateral and champions in the right places who are motivated, incentivised and empowered.

Funding can come from a variety of places. The ARU, the QRU and it's State counterparts, Federal, State and Local Government from Communities, Health, Youth and Sports etc) budgets, Sponsors (particularly for the Tournament type initiatives like a Summer 7's) and allocation of a portion of the Revenue from those tournaments.

And lastly - I think the goal of making Rugby No1 is a bit silly. The goal, the GOALS, should be based around achieving growth and other very specific things like "X Number of new Schools running a Rugby Program by 2015" and "A Summer 7's Tournament televised on a Major Network with a National high profile sponsor by [insert]", "An increase of 25% in Junior Club Rugby enrollments from u6 to u9 by 2014" etc.

:yay:yay:yay

Great post. Agree with everything in it. That's what we need to see from our administration. Real leadership with an eye on growing the game well beyond its current footholds.

Statements like making Rugby No.1 sound great but I agree more realistic goals should be set. I would say doubling our player base in a decade should be achievable if all the above measures are enacted.

 

[biggsy]

Is this year for rugby 7's the first year it is classed as a professional sport. 100k to travell the world and play rugby.
I think the rugby will be number 1 sport one day. Great points bought up in some post, nice thread

 

[Rugby Central]

According to inside "sources", The creation of a seperate Club Sevens competition is underway. What you may find is there's a great deal of inertia for the idea from club's

From a Sydney point of view (can't speak for other states) clubs are struggling to field their teams for the regular week in week out competitions during winter. A very select few have the resources to to field more teams for a seperate competition.

The coverage of just one Shute Shield match is equal to the annual budget of most Subbies Clubs, and some of these have more money than the Shute Shield clubs.

I agree that sevens is the window of opportunity for the expansion of rugby union. Unfortunately there is little will and even less money in rugby at the moment to get things started.