MacQueen turned the Wallabies around in one pre-season

[Hugh Jarse]

Dingo and the Bench

There continues to be a lot of talk about the use (or not) of the bench by Dingo this year.

There was an interesting table in the Sydney Bledisloe Test programme showing replacements/bench use for 2010 which made interesting reading.

Game 1 Men in Gold V Fiji (4 out of 7 from bench)
Ma'afu for Alexander @ 60
S Finger for Edmonds @ 55
Cowan for Ma'afu @ 61
Hodgson for Pocock @ 55
Mitchell for AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) @ 55

Game 2 Barbars v The Unwashed (5 out of 7 from bench)
Hynes for Bieber @ 47
McCutcheon for Hodgson @ 50
Douglas for Chisholm @ 63
Fitzpartick for Edmonds @ 58
Slipper for Cowan @ 40

Game 3 Men in Gold vs The Unwashed (5 out of 7 from bench)
Gilbert Beale for Bieber @ 74
Hodgson for Bam Bam @ 78
Chisholm for Mumm @ 68
Edmonds for S Finger @ 78
Slipper for Daley @ 66

Game 4 Barbars vs The Unwashed (5 out of 7 from bench)
Barnes for Chambers @ 13
Hodgson for McCutcheon @ 51
Chisholm for Simmons @ 45
Slipper for Weeks @ 51
Edmonds for TPN @ 44
TPN for Cowan @ 73

Game 5 Men in Gold vs The Unwashed (4 out of 7 from bench)
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) for Ioane @ 63
Chisholm for Mumm @ @ 54
Slipper for Ma'afu @ 72
Edmonds for S Finger @ 72

Game 6 Men in Gold vs Irish (2 out of 7 from bench)
Gilbert B for Horne @ 40
Slipper for Daley @ 54

Game 7 Men in Gold vs Bokke (6 out of 7 from bench)
Barnes for Gits @ 74
McCalman for Dick Brown @ 70
Mumm for Sharpe @ 72
Simmons for Mumm @ 68
Moore for S Finger @ 54
Slipper for Robinson @ 60

Game 8 Sunlight vs the Darkness (6 out of 7 from bench)
Gilbert for Horne @ 54
A Finger for Gits @ 76
Burgess for Sanchez @ 75
Simmons for Sharpe @ 41
Slipper for Ma'afu @ 57
S Finger for Moore @ 41

Game 9 Sunlight vs the Darkness (1 out of 7 from bench)
Simmons for Sharpe @ 41

Game 10 Men in Gold vs Saffers (3 out of 7 from bench)
McCalman for Dick Brown @ 53
Simmons for Sharpe @ 62
Slipper for Ma'afu @ 47

Game 11 Men in Gold vs Saffers (7 out of 7 from bench)
Barnes for Gits @ 71
A Finger for Schmoo @ 73
Burgo for Sanchez @ 55
Dick Brown for McCalman @ 74
Mumm for Chisholm @ 54
Clipper for Ma'afu @ 22
S Finger for Moore @ 65

I have ruled out Blood bin replacements and enforced yellow card subs.
Several of those above are for injuries rather than tactical subs.

Out of a possible 77 replacements, we have seen Dingo make 48 (if my maths is correct).
Of these 48 replacements 14 have been with 10 minutes or less to go with not much time to make an impact.

While on a couple of occasions, Dingo has had some howlers with the bench, at face value it is not as systematically poor as is commonly protrayed (or is it??).

 

[Groucho]

I have known Peter since he did the S & C work with Sydney Uni while employed at the Sydney Academy of Sport. He is obviously a very experienced practitioner having been with London Irish and Montferrand in rugby, and Parramatta Eels, Hunter Mariners and Bradford Bulls in rugby league.

I believe that the training methods he has adopted with the Wallabies are inappropriate and probably reflective of his background in rugby league, a sport which requires much more aerobic capacity than rugby.

My thinking has been profoundly influenced by the methods developed by Peter's successor at Sydney Uni, Martin Harland, and used by Martin and Tim Leahy to develop and condition the Uni players. Unlike the Wallabies, Uni teams in recent years have been noted for their ability to finish over the top of their opponents in the last quarter of games. Players at the club do very little aerobic conditioning with their training almost exclusively focussed on heavy strength work and speed training.



It is clear that "the fitness regime that was/is successful with the Crusaders and the ABs" is fundamentally different from that currently used by the Wallabies. The S & C coach at the Crusaders is Ashley Jones, coincidentally another Australian with a rugby league background. The Crusaders do a lot of heavy strength training in the gym as well as strong man routines such as tractor tyre flipping, farmers walks, etc. Jones has also been heavily involved with All Blacks training over the years. Anyone who has watched YouTube videos of their training will know that they are very rpoud of their ability to handle very significant weights.

You're slowly converting me from a lifetime of training dogma, Bruce.

 

[Groucho]

Many have bagged Smith unduely. If you read what players like Phil Kearns and the other Waratahs players who were coached by him at both State and National level have said regarding his time with the Wallabies there was a very marked personality change from a very jovial and thorough Coach to a withdrawn hostile man who had little contact with the players. There is no doubt that the Brain tumour which was found not long after his resignation from the job was having a major impact on his coaching. There is no doubt that Smith's tenure as coach was a failure but it is unfair that the man be remembered for this.

As for you "Cattle" argument please listen to Link on Ruggamatrix about that myth.

I think the talent we have now is exceptional, potentially a golden age for Wallaby rugby.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

You're slowly converting me from a lifetime of training dogma, Bruce.

Likewise Groucho. Bruce's posts on here have led me to question a lot of what I thought I knew about training for rugby.

 

[Langthorne]

Replacements: 48 - 14 = 34 out of 77 HJ...although the numbers don't tell the whole story. We have to recall the times players were clearly dead on their feet and still not replaced, when things weren't working yet no changes were made.
It would not be an issue if the Wallabies were making no substitutions but smashing all comers.

Gnostic and FP - Deans is not soley responsible for many of the issues you are discussing.
eg Is Deans soley responsible for the development of X, Y or Z?
Is Deans significantly responsible...?
Is Deans partly responsible...?

I'd say as a minimum he is partly responsible for the development of all Wallaby players, but some would say he is more significant impact than that on player development. My only contention is that if Deans is to be praised for the development of one player, he should also be held responsible to the same degree for players whose performance deteriorates under the same regime.

MacQueen had 2 previous RWC winners in his 99 RWC squad, not "many" - but certainly more than Deans has (but really, now it is only SA and maybe England who do).

Of course it isn't really fair to compare Deans with MacQueen, mostly because MacQueen is far and away the most successful coach the Wallabies have ever had. His record is so good that Deans would have to coach the Wallabies for the next million years to make up the distance - well maybe not quite that long.

I am another who is coming around to Bruce's way of thinking, although I'd be interested to know why the type of physical conditioning he advocates is superior to an aerobic based approach (I don't mean 'these guys do it and win' but more an explaination of how it is more appropriate for the requirements of rugby. Also, is the training very different depending on the position a player intends to play?).

Physical conditioning cannot be seperated from the mental side as poor physical conditioning will impact directly on descision making (less oxygen getting to the brain results in those 'unexplicable' cock ups we are familiar with from sports the world over)

 

[Bruce Ross]

I am another who is coming around to Bruce's way of thinking, although I'd be interested to know why the type of physical conditioning he advocates is superior to an aerobic based approach (I don't mean 'these guys do it and win' but more an explaination of how it is more appropriate for the requirements of rugby. Also, is the training very different depending on the position a player intends to play?).

Physical conditioning cannot be seperated from the mental side as poor physical conditioning will impact directly on descision making (less oxygen getting to the brain results in those 'unexplicable' cock ups we are familiar with from sports the world over)

Thanks for your questions, Langthorne. I would make the point that I am not qualified in sports science, so I have to rely on elementary logic and commonsense.

Let’s compare rugby to its illegitimate cousin, rugby league.

Where rugby is punctuated by numerous prolonged stoppages, league is much more continuous flow. Its few stoppages are of quite limited duration and players other than the fullback move backward and forward with every tackle. This means that league players are on the move for the majority of the 80 minutes of game time and therefore it is appropriate to focus on aerobic fitness. By contrast players are stationary for much of the game time in rugby.

Both sports are characterised by deliberate collisions, i.e., tackles. But in league as soon as the collision is effected the combatants immediately disengage, whereas in rugby a physically demanding struggle for ball possession or territorial advantage can go on for some time and involve an increasing number of players.

There is also no counterpart in league to rugby’s prolonged and forceful scrum engagements, rolling mauls, pushing and wrestling in rucks, or jumping and lifting in lineouts.

In all of these rugby activities superior strength confers an obvious advantage. But in the modern game strength without mobility is useless, and at the higher levels strength plus explosiveness is increasingly required.

With regard to the need for speed training, in rugby there are many more kick chases and kick returns than in league. There is also the fact that whereas in league the typical defensive alignment is twelve players in a straight line spread across the field, there are many occasions in rugby where the defensive line has far fewer players, meaning that defenders have to be able to accelerate to cover laterally.

Clearly there is a need for some differentiation in the balance between strength training and speed training depending on the requirements of the player’s position. But with modern training methods strength and speed are by no means mutually exclusive. In fact one simple measure, vertical jump relative to body weight, is a very reliable indicator of both lower body strength and acceleration.

My simplistic view is that you can’t be too strong and you can’t be too quick. However a heavy program of aerobic conditioning will necessarily compromise both of these attributes.

In your final sentence you very rightly draw attention to the link between physical conditioning and decision making. There is also the fact that physical fatigue almost inevitably saps the mental will to fight on.

 

[Jnor]

Very interesting, Bruce. Do you suggest a focus on speed/strength training for all levels or more at the elite and professional grades?

What does the training regime actually look like for one of the first grade Uni boys, and how different is it between the various positions? While I have seen everyone from TC to Jerry and Lachie Mitchell do a lot of work with bands, for example, I don't know to what extent they share exercises.

By the way, what is your role at Uni, if you don't mind sharing...

 

[WB3]

Bruce - what happened to the "sprinters not stayers" thread? I loved it.

I would like to contrast the physical preparation put in by Macqueen's Wallabies to Deans' Wallabies. Regardless of the differences in how the game is played I still think it would be valuable.

Also, I don't think League is necessarily more aerobic than union. Having played numerous games of it (usually in training) I can say that in defence it is hard work, but in attack there is a lot of opportunity for rest. For a forward in rugby, the necessary repetition of essentially anaerobic efforts means that the aerobic system needs to be efficient and thus the anaerobic threshold high (and also in order to speed up recovery times during the stoppages), but I think league actually seems to be an alternation of aerobic activity with anaerobic bursts, whereas union requires continued intensity that is taxing on all energy systems.

Also, your emphasis on "speed strength" brings to mind Westside Barbell training. Whilst it is used for powerlifters, the principles (a max effort day and a speed day - using progressive resistance methods etc) could be applied to rugby for more specificity. Worth a google if you are interested. Incorporating training with bands, weight releasers, chains and the like all develop speed but can be done at near maximal loads.
Still, given the complexity of the game of rugby, I think it is more about identifying the MOST critical strength attributes to train, rather than all of them, as the game requires too many.

Anyway, someone revive the "Sprinters, not Stayers" thread, it was good.

 

[Bruce Ross]

In rugby as in most sports we are always seeking a competitive edge. My view, Jnor, is that “a focus on speed/strength training” offers even greater relative advantages at the lower levels than at the elite and professional grades.

The greatest percentage gains in strength normally occur when people first start weight training and I presume the same would apply with training for speed. Gains of course are cumulative so a person with a training age of three years could be expected to be stronger than someone with only one year of training.

If you are competing in an environment where most players do not do systematic strength or speed training you could gain a substantial advantage through spending time doing appropriate specific training.

The actual training routines of the Uni players are basically the intellectual property of their strength and conditioning coaches, either at the University or in the professional franchises, so I shouldn’t really discuss them. What I can talk about is training loads. Players in the EDS (Elite Development Squad) programs either at Grade or Colts levels train for 11 months of the year, doing four weight sessions per week in the off-season and three sessions during competition.

For those players who do all their training at Uni rather than with a professional franchise there would be a fair degree of commonality in the type of exercise and number of sets and repetitions that they do, although allowances would be made not just for playing position but also for body type. For example, an astute coach would probably use somewhat different programs for Polynesian or Melanesian players than for lighter framed Anglos.

The three professional players you mention would have acquired a considerable degree of training knowledge and therefore might have favourite exercises which they include in their training.

My role at Uni is as President of Sydney Uni Sport & Fitness, the parent body of the forty-odd sporting clubs there. I probably should also mention that I am the inventor of two machines, the MyoTruk and MyoThrusta, which are extensively used for strength training at the University gymnasium.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Bruce - what happened to the "sprinters not stayers" thread? I loved it.

Anyway, someone revive the "Sprinters, not Stayers" thread, it was good.

Is this what you are looking for, WB? Glad you enjoyed it.

If I get time I will comment on the rest of your post later this afternoon.

 

[observer]

I probably should also mention that I am the inventor of two machines, the MyoTruk and MyoThrusta, which are extensively used for strength training at the University gymnasium.

Bruce, you are a genius! No wonder Sydney Uni won't let you go.

 

[Scarfman]

Is that Chariots strapped into the MyoTruck?

Bruce, he needs less heavy bag, more speed work.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Is that Chariots strapped into the MyoTruck?

Bruce, he needs less heavy bag, more speed work.

Scarfman, guess who leads almost every kick chase for the Waratahs and Sydney Uni? Who covers more ground than the early explorers and has a huge number of involvements at the breakdown.

As for his speed, how about 1.65 seconds for 10 metres and 2.86 for 20 indoors; and 5.08 for 40 on grass? Fairly useful for someone who is 105 kg and 189cm tall with a very long stride.

It might be instructive tomorrow to have a look at the contribution that he makes to his team's performance with his unique style of play rather than focussing on his assumed lack of conventional centre attributes.

 

[Newter]

Of course it isn't really fair to compare Deans with MacQueen, mostly because MacQueen is far and away the most successful coach the Wallabies have ever had. His record is so good that Deans would have to coach the Wallabies for the next million years to make up the distance - well maybe not quite that long.

Langthorne, it is entirely fair to compare Deans with MacQueen. I expect the Wallabies to be the best team in world rugby every year. Looking not just at the huge potential of our players, but at the transparent and repeated mistakes of the Robbie Deans tenure in the very basics of successful head-coaching as set down by MacQueen and lately by Graham Henry and some others, I can't forgive Deans for leading this side to three successive years of mediocrity.

Big and consistent selection errors.

Virtually no special attention to the crucial aspect of pride in the jersey (I think this has been a huge oversight for years, and it's no wonder we've been falling behind the two teams who give it the respect it deserves - the Kiwis and the South Africans.)

Limited to no decision-making authority delegated to key players on the field. Whose job is it to organise our re-starts? Everyone's and noone's.

At the very least, we should have beaten the All Blacks another three or four times by now, and should certainly not have lost to England or Scotland!

The encouraging thing is that, with our coaches simply not addressing the basics, we've got massive leaps of improvement waiting to be tapped.

 

[Scarfman]

Brucey, I'm taking the piss. You might be surprised how much of a Carter supporter I was in Link's last year. but that was before the Monkey Cloud.

Anyway, I'm very much enjoying your lecture series, not least because it helps me to put the boot into Mad Robbie. Just looking at the MyoTruck is getting me fitter.

 

[disco]

Well the only aussie player who really troubled the AB's was Pocock & he's certainly built for power & not speed.

Deans youth policy is a little bit annoying as I still think there is a place for Phil Waugh in the Wallabies, I think he would have been perfect for the last 20 minutes in Sydney.

The current wallabies are a very young side & most will peak for the Lions tour & 2015 RWC.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Brucey, I'm taking the piss. You might be surprised how much of a Carter supporter I was in Link's last year. but that was before the Monkey Cloud.

Anyway, I'm very much enjoying your lecture series, not least because it helps me to put the boot into Mad Robbie. Just looking at the MyoTruck is getting me fitter.

Scarfie, Tommy can be over the top but no one can legitimately question his commitment.

He has developed a unique and quite revolutionary approach to playing in centre field which his Waratah coaches in 2008, Ewen McKenzie and Todd Louden, valued quite highly. Chris Hickey also seems to now have confidence in his ability. But his style leaves him open to ridicule and criticism from people who have fixed ideas of how the 12 position should be played.

Those who think he is one dimensional and just a plodder demonstrate their own limitations in thinking about rugby.

Fortunately he has the courage of his convictions and will continue to do things his way.

 

[Jethro Tah]

Bruce, what's your view on Cross joining the squad and your view on the best Tahs 2011 backline?

Apologies for being off thread topic but wanted to get the view from the guru.

 

[Jnor]

Brucey, I'm taking the piss. You might be surprised how much of a Carter supporter I was in Link's last year. but that was before the Monkey Cloud.

Anyway, I'm very much enjoying your lecture series, not least because it helps me to put the boot into Mad Robbie. Just looking at the MyoTruck is getting me fitter.

What, pray tell, was the monkey cloud??? I don't think there's anything wrong with the way TC plays, I'd say most of the negative attitude people have towards him is because of the pushing and shoving and general niggle he gets into on field rather than anything more substantial.

Those sprint times don't really surprise me and he sure as hell lifts a lot of weight.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

What, pray tell, was the monkey cloud??? I don't think there's anything wrong with the way TC plays, I'd say most of the negative attitude people have towards him is because of the pushing and shoving and general niggle he gets into on field rather than anything more substantial.

Those sprint times don't really surprise me and he sure as hell lifts a lot of weight.

That is my principle objection to the way he plays, though I have also been on the record as saying that I don't believe he compares well in the skill department to some of the other Tahs. I don't doubt his commitment though.