MacQueen turned the Wallabies around in one pre-season

[Newter]

Newter you contradict yourself with points one and two. Why isn't the bench much chop? Because he selected the wrong players and hence they had nothing to offer on balance at the end of games. However even after the lesson of Bloemfontein Deans failed to use his bench in any meaningful way against NZ in the last 3N game when it was clear to all that some were struggling. Also when is Giteau's RECENT proven form? He was poor in S14 this year and has been poor with a very good game thrown in in Tests for two or more years. One game a year just isn't good enough. We don't even need to go to the selection of Ma'afu or returning to Chis at lock.

Ma'afu was the right selection. He's as good (or bad?) as Baxter now, and he'll be better in 12 months. Slipper wasn't ready.
Chisholm was also correct, for his scrum and lineout strengths. There was nobody better available.
Matt Giteau has run and tackled very reliably all year, with a very low error rate. He's been better at this than any other contender in 12, even Anthony Fainga'a who can't kick and certainly Berrick Barnes (until, perhaps, lately for Uni?). Giteau draws criticism because he's no good at line-break assists yet is expected to conjure them in every game. Robbie should not play him at flyhalf again.

As for the bench, I'm not sure who you expected to see selected there. I thought the best available were all there. And the good ones were used - Slipper got lots of time in the last Bled, and so did Barnes. Maybe Burgess should have got a bit more time, but would he have made a huge difference? He's not a level headed player and shouldn't be used for long periods.

 

[Groucho]

Ma'afu was the right selection. He's as good (or bad?) as Baxter now, and he'll be better in 12 months.

Ma'afu is not in the same class as Baxter as a scrummaging tight head, let alone as good.

 

[farva]

Ma'afu is not in the same class as Baxter as a scrummaging tight head, let alone as good.

Id also suggest that Fairbrother and Palmer are better scrummagers than Ma'afu. Thats what annoys me about his selection. We had an inexperienced loosehead in Ben Daley and an inexperienced hooker in Fa'ainga also playing early in the piece. Instead of sticking someone who could hold their end of the scrum up such as Baxter, Fairbrother or Palmer we chose Ma'afu. Hell, picking Weeks would have been better. Then we could have the tripod on together and they would at the least know how each other play and could have used that to their advantage.
As it is, I am worried that Daley having his head shoved up his arse has dented his confidence and set him back as a developing loosehead.

Thats one of my main gripes with Deans (I'm still on the Deans for Prime Minister side of the debate mind).

 

[DPK]

Ma'afu could become a great backup if he continues his progress, but as has been pointed out the Brumbies scrum coaching has left a lot to be desired. I hope he continues to progress. I admit I thought his selection was crazy and was absolutely a step in the wrong direction, but I think we may see some dividends out of it.

 

[RugbyFuture]

he's kinda old

 

[da_grubster]

I expect the Wallabies to be the best team in world rugby every year.

Well that is pretty stupid and unrealistic of you. Seems that your harping back to the mcqueen era is when you first started watching rugby and thought that was the norm for wallaby rugby, when in fact it wasnt.

Australia are a good side with good potential and have taken advantage of SA's drop in form to ge themselves into 2nd place in the rankings.

They are far too inconsistent (Look at how poor their form was for most of the year aprat from two good wins against SA), have poor on field leadership, have quesation marks over their mentality especially when facing NZ, and have a fundamental problem against the All Blacks that they can get beaten up in the pack if NZ change their game plan to a forward orientated game.

Having said that, they could be on the right learning curve, if the stars align next year and their injured players ge back to some good form and you can put something like your best team on the field next year.

Although, a note of caution would be that NZ have Sivivatu, Williams (Could probably be in the same category as vickerman now), Hore, Toeava, Kahui and SBW to potentially add to the mix so injury problems, while a fact of life, are not just the walalbies problems.

 

[DPK]

he's kinda old

Oh come on, those in favour of Baxter couldn't shout "Props mature at an older age" loud enough!

 

[Groucho]

Well that is pretty stupid and unrealistic of you. Seems that your harping back to the mcqueen era is when you first started watching rugby and thought that was the norm for wallaby rugby, when in fact it wasnt.

Australia are a good side with good potential and have taken advantage of SA's drop in form to ge themselves into 2nd place in the rankings.

They are far too inconsistent (Look at how poor their form was for most of the year aprat from two good wins against SA), have poor on field leadership, have quesation marks over their mentality especially when facing NZ, and have a fundamental problem against the All Blacks that they can get beaten up in the pack if NZ change their game plan to a forward orientated game.

Having said that, they could be on the right learning curve, if the stars align next year and their injured players ge back to some good form and you can put something like your best team on the field next year.

Although, a note of caution would be that NZ have Sivivatu, Williams (Could probably be in the same category as vickerman now), Hore, Toeava, Kahui and SBW to potentially add to the mix so injury problems, while a fact of life, are not just the walalbies problems.

The difference is that none of the missing ABs are key players, with the possible exception of Sivi. In fact none of them may get a game when they are fit. The missing Wallabies are the backbone of the team.

 

[Newter]

Ma'afu is not in the same class as Baxter as a scrummaging tight head, let alone as good.

Well I'd say they're equally poor. Baxter will always collapse under pressure. He's got the very best out of himself, reached his potential. It's not up to standard. Ma'afu is just as weak in the scrum (now) but a lot stronger in defence and clearing out. Firmly justified selection call IMO.

 

[Newter]

Well that is pretty stupid and unrealistic of you. Seems that your harping back to the mcqueen era is when you first started watching rugby and thought that was the norm for wallaby rugby, when in fact it wasnt.

Australia are a good side with good potential and have taken advantage of SA's drop in form to ge themselves into 2nd place in the rankings.

They are far too inconsistent (Look at how poor their form was for most of the year aprat from two good wins against SA), have poor on field leadership, have quesation marks over their mentality especially when facing NZ, and have a fundamental problem against the All Blacks that they can get beaten up in the pack if NZ change their game plan to a forward orientated game.

Having said that, they could be on the right learning curve, if the stars align next year and their injured players ge back to some good form and you can put something like your best team on the field next year.

Although, a note of caution would be that NZ have Sivivatu, Williams (Could probably be in the same category as vickerman now), Hore, Toeava, Kahui and SBW to potentially add to the mix so injury problems, while a fact of life, are not just the walalbies problems.

All the problems you've picked out I agree with, and with the right coaching they'd be solved. Consistency, leadership, mental attitude, tactical preparation....these are controllables which, to date, Robbie Deans hasn't been good enough to master. The fact that he's ignored some of the basics laid down by MacQueen just makes it more puzzling.

The thing is, if the Wallabies were maxing out but just weren't talented enough I'd accept our mediocre results. But, as you say, we have more potential than that. I expect that potential to be realised every season, and if it were then we'd be world no 1 as often as the All Blacks.

 

[Gnostic]

Well I'd say they're equally poor. Baxter will always collapse under pressure. He's got the very best out of himself, reached his potential. It's not up to standard. Ma'afu is just as weak in the scrum (now) but a lot stronger in defence and clearing out. Firmly justified selection call IMO.

Your opinion is fatally flawed by looking at S14 stats from this year and Scrum stats from the last few years in internationals and other games.

Baxter was the best THP by far in Oz for workrate and the Tahs really suffered when he was out as Palmer doesn't have his workrate and Tilse is only adequate on the TH side. Baxter in addition has had no problems with any LHP in the world except Woodcock. The problem there as has been pointed out many times before is that Woodcock does not bind but engages with one hand on the ground, then he binds but has his shoulder under the TH allowing him to get dominance. Baxter recognised that and his flawed way of dealing with it was to try and go lower to stop Woodcock getting underneath, Baxter then gets done for going head below hips. The other issue which Joubert inconsistantly applied to Baxter was binding on the arm which he didn't, it was on the jersey at the shoulder. The issue there was this hadn't been policed in that way all year and no other prop in the comp has been penlised for it before or since.

In any event Ma'afu was not second or even third best THP in Oz. Fairbrother had the second best stats, followed by Weeks.

 

[DPK]

In any event Ma'afu was not second or even third best THP in Oz. Fairbrother had the second best stats, followed by Weeks.

And now? Just asking generally, where would the posters on this site rank him now?

 

[farva]

And now? Just asking generally, where would the posters on this site rank him now?

Might have him ahead of Weeks. But I think with the training that Ma'afu has received that Weeks would be at least where Ma'afu is now.

 

[Gnostic]

And I'd put Slipper ahead of him as well both in the scrum and the loose.

 

[Groucho]

Baxter will always collapse under pressure

Nonsense. You are obviously trolling.

 

[DPK]

So, the TH options and their problems are:

• Palmer; "Potplant" i.e. too little impact around the park.
• Baxter; Collapses too much, or at least has the reputation of doing so with referees.
• Ma'afu; Poor scrummager.

Anyone want to help me fill in the rest?

 

[Gnostic]

So, the TH options and their problems are:

• Palmer; "Potplant" i.e. too little impact around the park.
• Baxter; Collapses too much, or at least has the reputation of doing so with referees.
• Ma'afu; Poor scrummager. you left out - not good around park

Anyone want to help me fill in the rest?

Fairbrother - Technically very good THP in scrum, pretty good around park.

Slipper - Will be No1 THP in Oz in a couple of years

Weeks - WTF did he do? Hasn't been seen since Aus A games where he was played out of position. OK in Scrum and good around park

Kepu - Very good LHP, excellent around park, OK at THP.

Alexander - can play LHP (but seems to get penlised heavily see S14 stats this year. Solid at THP and very good around field

Dunning - very poor form this year in everything

 

[Bruce Ross]

Weeks - WTF did he do? Hasn't been seen since Aus A games where he was played out of position. OK in Scrum and good around park

He asks the same question. Apparently no one has ever said a word to him about why he was treated as a leper.

But he has been used in the scrummaging sessions in preparation for the European tour.

Rule one of coaching is that if you're going to spear someone eyeball them. And give them the reason not some excuse.

 

[DPK]

Gnostic, I left out Ma'afu being poor around the park because he isn't; he's average with the occasional great act. He put in some impressive hit this year, and I do recall him snatching at least one crucial turnover. I think he's unfit, but someone like Mr Ross could better analyse that.

He's no Potplant, but he's not Pocock either.

 

[Gnostic]

He asks the same question. Apparently no one has ever said a word to him about why he was treated as a leper.

But he has been used in the scrummaging sessions in preparation for the European tour.

Rule one of coaching is that if you're going to spear someone eyeball them. And give them the reason not some excuse.

Rule one in life as a manager at any level. Got to have the Balls to face up and tell people straight, have known quite a few a different times who were cowards when it came to this.