MacQueen turned the Wallabies around in one pre-season

[Jnor]

The strength and conditioning coach is Peter Harding.

And would you lke to tell us what you think of him, Bruce?

 

[fatprop]

Why has he still not addressed it? Either he doesn't prioritise it, or he doesn't know how to get it done in the limited time. The Cartel seem to manage.

I can't believe that Deans has ignored the fitness regime that was/is successful with the Crusaders and the ABs, they appear to be able to compete with all but the ABs

I think a lot of it is accuracy, the ABs know their roles so well, they don't waste effort.

We don't make decisions as well and waste effort.

 

[Ruggo]

Agree FP. The not closing out games is more a mental issue than a physical one. It will change as our players accumulate more experience.

 

[Burke's Boot]

I've read both MacQueen's and Eales' books and yes the start was rocky, but they worked it out and became a formidable combination. MacQueen's book was like reading a textbook on building a successful team in nearly any endeavour. It's very, very illuminating.

It is a terrific book and i dare say you don't need to be a sports fan to get something out of it.

 

[Burke's Boot]

The difference between the current Wallabies and the ones Macqueen inherited off Smith was that the cattle in 97 was much better than what we have now plus their were better leaders in the team back then. A big reason for the quick turnaround in our fortunes was that Smith was fairly clueless and in fact i was told by my father who was told directly by a Wallabies support crew member that Smith didn't even have a game plan for the 1997 MCG Bledisloe.

 

[Bruce Ross]

And would you lke to tell us what you think of [Peter Harding], Bruce?

I have known Peter since he did the S & C work with Sydney Uni while employed at the Sydney Academy of Sport. He is obviously a very experienced practitioner having been with London Irish and Montferrand in rugby, and Parramatta Eels, Hunter Mariners and Bradford Bulls in rugby league.

I believe that the training methods he has adopted with the Wallabies are inappropriate and probably reflective of his background in rugby league, a sport which requires much more aerobic capacity than rugby.

My thinking has been profoundly influenced by the methods developed by Peter's successor at Sydney Uni, Martin Harland, and used by Martin and Tim Leahy to develop and condition the Uni players. Unlike the Wallabies, Uni teams in recent years have been noted for their ability to finish over the top of their opponents in the last quarter of games. Players at the club do very little aerobic conditioning with their training almost exclusively focussed on heavy strength work and speed training.

I can't believe that Deans has ignored the fitness regime that was/is successful with the Crusaders and the ABs, they appear to be able to compete with all but the ABs

It is clear that "the fitness regime that was/is successful with the Crusaders and the ABs" is fundamentally different from that currently used by the Wallabies. The S & C coach at the Crusaders is Ashley Jones, coincidentally another Australian with a rugby league background. The Crusaders do a lot of heavy strength training in the gym as well as strong man routines such as tractor tyre flipping, farmers walks, etc. Jones has also been heavily involved with All Blacks training over the years. Anyone who has watched YouTube videos of their training will know that they are very rpoud of their ability to handle very significant weights.

 

[Gnostic]

The difference between the current Wallabies and the ones Macqueen inherited off Smith was that the cattle in 97 was much better than what we have now plus their were better leaders in the team back then. A big reason for the quick turnaround in our fortunes was that Smith was fairly clueless and in fact i was told by my father who was told directly by a Wallabies support crew member that Smith didn't even have a game plan for the 1997 MCG Bledisloe.

Many have bagged Smith unduely. If you read what players like Phil Kearns and the other Waratahs players who were coached by him at both State and National level have said regarding his time with the Wallabies there was a very marked personality change from a very jovial and thorough Coach to a withdrawn hostile man who had little contact with the players. There is no doubt that the Brain tumour which was found not long after his resignation from the job was having a major impact on his coaching. There is no doubt that Smith's tenure as coach was a failure but it is unfair that the man be remembered for this.

As for you "Cattle" argument please listen to Link on Ruggamatrix about that myth.

 

[DPK]

Many have bagged Smith unduely. If you read what players like Phil Kearns and the other Waratahs players who were coached by him at both State and National level have said regarding his time with the Wallabies there was a very marked personality change from a very jovial and thorough Coach to a withdrawn hostile man who had little contact with the players. There is no doubt that the Brain tumour which was found not long after his resignation from the job was having a major impact on his coaching. There is no doubt that Smith's tenure as coach was a failure but it is unfair that the man be remembered for this.

The tumor may have had an impact, but for most people a new job and an entirely different set of responsibilities (larger set), expectations and a whole new group of people to work with cause some personality changes.

This could also be a factor in Deans' lack of success. However, it's been three years. He should be very well settled now and ready to rock and roll.

Sorry to turn this into a pro-Deans vs anti-Deans thread, but who among us would like to see Deans kept on after 2011?

 

[Gnostic]

Konze - like I have said many many times before the lack of critical review of Deans performance has been a determining factor IMO in the lack of improvement we have seen not only in results but in performance. By any real examination of any KPI you wish to nominate (except possibly the introduction of uncapped players) his tenure has been at very best a very low pass mark.

If Deans had received proper critical review instead of the fawning adulation he got for two years he may have changed practices, for example may have learnt to use the bench.

The problem with the lack of critical review is compounded now that some people have started to question they are swinging too far the other way resulting in personal attacks in the worst cases and that means they fail to recognise the good aspects of the regime and the successes and ground work that have been laid.

In direct answer to your question I would be very surprised if Deans is Wallabies coach after the RWC. The problem is his tenure has been so marked by failure on the results front and some other key markers (including the selection errors that marked his AB assistant coach time) that I highly doubt if he would get the job he really wants and coach the ABs. Deans will either end up coaching a NH team, being an Eddie Jone type consultant, or go back to Crusader land.

 

[DPK]

I'd hate to see yet another coach come in to the Wallabies. The AB's could've canned Henry, but they kept him and now look how things are going. I think if we switch coach, we'll just get more of the adoring adulation you spoke of.

Say we bomb out in the quarters like we did in 07. Link comes on board, the golden boy of Aussie coaches. He would still have that adulation that Deans has, probably moreso. Failure would still be forgiven, applauded even.

The opposite might not happen if Deans is kept on, but if he is kept on and given a chance to see his long term plan achieved he just might do it. Plus, after RWC 2011, if we don't win it, the press that are supporting him will probably bring out the Gillard Blades and be much more critical of him.

 

[Burke's Boot]

Many have bagged Smith unduely. If you read what players like Phil Kearns and the other Waratahs players who were coached by him at both State and National level have said regarding his time with the Wallabies there was a very marked personality change from a very jovial and thorough Coach to a withdrawn hostile man who had little contact with the players. There is no doubt that the Brain tumour which was found not long after his resignation from the job was having a major impact on his coaching. There is no doubt that Smith's tenure as coach was a failure but it is unfair that the man be remembered for this.

As for you "Cattle" argument please listen to Link on Ruggamatrix about that myth.

He did have the tumour at the end of his Wallaby reign and he went into detail about his taciturn behaviour on his last tour with the boys in South Africa where he would lock himself in his hotel room and close all the blinds and basically do nothing. So effectively we didn't have a head coach at that juncture as the poor bloke was already sick and didn't know it.

I can't be bothered listening to Link as he puts me to sleep but the fact is at that time we had Gregan (at his peak), Tune, Roff, Herbert, Horan, Eales, JP, Kearns, Eales, Wilson who were all all close to the best in the world at that time. How many of our current mob can you say that of?

 

[farva]

He did have the tumour at the end of his Wallaby reign and he went into detail about his taciturn behaviour on his last tour with the boys in South Africa where he would lock himself in his hotel room and close all the blinds and basically do nothing. So effectively we didn't have a head coach at that juncture as the poor bloke was already sick and didn't know it.

I can't be bothered listening to Link as he puts me to sleep but the fact is at that time we had Gregan (at his peak), Tune, Roff, Herbert, Horan, Eales, JP, Kearns, Eales, Wilson who were all all close to the best in the world at that time. How many of our current mob can you say that of?

Who are close to the best going aorund right now:
TPN, Robinson, Sharpe, Pocock, Elsom, Genia, Cooper, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Mitchell, Beale.

 

[Burke's Boot]

Who are close to the best going aorund right now:
TPN, Robinson, Sharpe, Pocock, Elsom, Genia, Cooper, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Mitchell, Beale.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Fatcat (who was down a bit on form in the recent 3Ns probably due to his arm) are probably World 1st XV players. Genia would make the bench as cover for Fourie du Preez and Pocock for McAwe. TPN throwing can still be all over the place, Elsom hasn't played all that well since playing in Ireland, Mitchell on a good day would make a world XV but he is inconsistent, Beale & Cooper are still a bit flaky.

 

[Gnostic]

It is strange that I find myself in a position where I am actually the one providing some support for Deans.

Do I think the Wallabies have really progressed under his coaching? No.
Do I think he is responsible for developing players like Genia, Cooper, Beale, Pocock? No.
DO I think Deans was responsible for very poor game plans? Yes
Do I think Deans has consistantly failed at selction time? Yes
DO I think he has failed to use the 22 he has selected to best effect? Yes.

On the other side:-
Do I think Deans is a good coach? His results in other areas and some parts of the Wallabies indicate to me Yes.
DO I think that he has been let down by 'Yes men' and sycophants telling him only positives? Yes.

The key now is it is too close to the RWC to make a change in head coach but the assistants can and probably should be changed. The issue is that they must be a coaching team and the reasons Foley left the Wallabies make me wonder now if he could be a cohesive part of that Team with Deans as Head Coach. A big reason for Foley in any case is scrums and Noriega has been able to get very good results from a pretty poor THP in Ma-afu. My concerns with Deans remaining as Head coach revolve basically around his continued selection issues, poor tactics (until the last three games of the 3N we saw nothing except people running at defenders one out) and non-use of the full 22.

If for example we go on the EOYT with Giteau as kicker then I will give up hope now of a decent showing at the RWC, 3N 2011 and even the EOYT 2010. Giteau may be able to kick consistantly at training but history has shown for at least 4 years that under real pressure his technique falls apart and he misses shots that Club grade kickers are EXPECTED to land. This is the coaches call, if Giteau has a dummy spit again then say the door is that way don't let it hit you on the way out.

 

[fatprop]

Do I think the Wallabies have really progressed under his coaching? Yes.
Do I think he is responsible for developing players like Genia, Cooper, Beale, Pocock? Yes
DO I think Deans was responsible for very poor game plans? No
Do I think Deans has consistantly failed at selction time? Not consistantly
DO I think he has failed to use the 22 he has selected to best effect? Yes

 

[Newter]

The difference between the current Wallabies and the ones Macqueen inherited off Smith was that the cattle in 97 was much better than what we have now plus their were better leaders in the team back then. A big reason for the quick turnaround in our fortunes was that Smith was fairly clueless and in fact i was told by my father who was told directly by a Wallabies support crew member that Smith didn't even have a game plan for the 1997 MCG Bledisloe.

Better cattle in 97? They weren't better at the time. Look at the results:

1997 (pre end of year tour): 8 Tests - 4 wins, 4 losses. 50% win rate.
1996: 11 Tests - 8 wins, 3 losses. 72% win rate.
1995: 8 Tests - 4 wins, 4 losses. 50% win rate.

Ok, so they had a goodish year in 1996 (apart from a 0-2 whitewash against the All Blacks!). But the trend over three years, even in 1995 before Greg Smith was coach, was pretty ordinary performance.

We only think of Gregan and the rest as great players because a good coach got the best out of them.

Isn't it funny how a guy like Will Genia looked like a world beater at the Reds this year, and like just another average player at the Wallabies. Good coaches get the best out of their players.

 

[Ruggo]

Better cattle in 97? They weren't better at the time. Look at the results:

1997 (pre end of year tour): 8 Tests - 4 wins, 4 losses. 50% win rate.
1996: 11 Tests - 8 wins, 3 losses. 72% win rate.
1995: 8 Tests - 4 wins, 4 losses. 50% win rate.

Ok, so they had a goodish year in 1996 (apart from a 0-2 whitewash against the All Blacks!). But the trend over three years, even in 1995 before Greg Smith was coach, was pretty ordinary performance.

We only think of Gregan and the rest as great players because a good coach got the best out of them.

Isn't it funny how a guy like Will Genia looked like a world beater at the Reds this year, and like just another average player at the Wallabies. Good coaches get the best out of their players.

Don't forget he was also one of our best on last years EOYT. He carried that form into the super 14.

 

[DPK]

Isn't it funny how a guy like Will Genia looked like a world beater at the Reds this year, and like just another average player at the Wallabies. Good coaches get the best out of their players.

Don't forget he was also one of our best on last years EOYT. He carried that form into the super 14.

He was (allegedly) injured throughout this years Tri Nations.

 

[Ruggo]

I would think it a case of second year syndrome. That don't mean he is not a good player but I just think he had to adapt to being a marked man. Burgess copped it last year.

 

[Scott Allen]

Ruggo - I think you're right about Genia. Think back to his game against the Boks in Brisbane this year - we all raved about his performance (9 rating from G&GR).

The All Blacks told everyone they were going to focus on shutting down Genia and Cooper, which they did very well. The Springboks also learnt their lesson after Brisbane. I expect a big EOYT from both Genia and Cooper but they'll be heavily marked again in Hong Kong.