long term coach?

[Scoey]

When talking about coaching records, a lot of emphasis is placed on Jake's RWC win in 2007. At the end of the day it was a RWC win and those things don't come easy but......

In the pool stages SA played ENG, SAM, TON & USA. Winning them all with a comprehensive victory over ENG 36-0.

Then in the knock out stages, SA beat FIJ, ARG and then ENG again winning the final in a much closer match 15-6. Coming into the tournament, ENG was ranked 7th and ARG was ranked 6th. This was the strongest competition that they faced.

Coming into the Tournament SA was ranked 4th behing NZ, AUS & FRA. They may well have won it all even if they played the likes of NZ, AUS & FRA but at the end of the day, those teams didn't earn the right so we'll never know. I don't have a point really, just throwing it out there for those that care, to consider.

 

[Rob42]

The Australian are really going with the story that White will takeover from Deans this year and then Link will get the job in 2016...

I can't imagine that this is anything more than a journalist's fevered imagination or a junior official's idle speculation. Link would be too wise to accept a plan like this - he's in a great position to take the job now, how much more preparation does he need? How is two years at the Rebels going to improve his CV for an international job? And if Jake takes over now and is reasonably successful, why on earth would he walk away or be replaced after only two years?

 

[Brumby Runner]

all i want is an australian coaching the australian team.

This sentiment, perhaps sadly, will be Deans' everlasting legacy to Australian rugby.

 

[something]

This sentiment, perhaps sadly, will be Deans' everlasting legacy to Australian rugby.

perhaps sadly. maybe not though. i dont have too much of an issue with the playing style (although boring post rwc) but i just feel as if when deans is interviewed, his heart just isn't in it.

I think when you're involved in a competitive team "this will look good on my CV" shouldn't apply in the slightest. It's like trying to market or sell a product that you dont believe in - if you're hearts not in it, it is incredibly hard to do a good job as you just aren't as driven.

Imagine being deans and trying to coach aus vs the all blacks.... no wonder we have a bad record

 

[Braveheart81]

For once, I thought Eddie Jones comments in the Daily Terror (from an ABC Grandstand interview I beleive) today were quite accurate.

"(Deans) had six years in the job and he's done a pretty fair job.
"I think everybody wants the Wallaby job now because they can sense there is a period of success coming."

This seems pretty much on the money to me. Deans record is average but by no means disgraceful. If his tenure as Wallabies coach is remembered as terrible we may as well grade most of our coaches that way and then Rod Macqueen could be considered fair to decent.

Our key players are all approaching prime rugby ages and for this group, the 2015 RWC will be their real chance when the mix of experience and age are just right.

In 2015, the bulk of our team will be 24-27 and then we will have more experience in certain positions like Horwill 30, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) 31, Robbo 30, Moore 32, TPN 29 etc.

Every man and his dog will want the gig for the 2015 RWC because they will all consider it a golden opportunity with a group that are just at the right stage of their careers to have a real crack at it.

 

[gel]

There is a substantial level of disconnect between what people remember in terms of how much the Wallabies won and the style in which we played and the reality of those situations.

The ARU created a silly situation where they published KPIs that were very much at the high end of historical results and then are made to look silly when they are not achieved but they keep the coach.

As a matter of interest, last year we won 60% of our matches which is on par with Robbie Deans' win percentage over his whole tenure and also roughly on par with that of the previous two coaches.

The most vocal opinion of these three coaches tends towards the negative which would indicate that 60% win percentage is (in the minds of those who are most vocal at least) is too low and to look for reasons why. Results wise, this would indicate that there is at least some connect between most people's perceptions of what they remember and what the reality of those situations.

I haven't broken the data down any better to get a year by year number (I am at work at the moment, sorry) but that would be quite interesting to look at I think given some years (2010) are viewed quite fondly and might be an indicator of style over substance (possibly???). If 2010 showed no significantly better win % then, style is quite clearly the desire.

*edit* - 2010 is roughly 58% as well (take out NZ and it is 75%. 2012 is roughly 60% (take out NZ and it is still about 60%)

 

[Braveheart81]

I haven't broken the data down any better to get a year by year number (I am at work at the moment, sorry) but that would be quite interesting to look at I think given some years (2010) are viewed quite fondly and might be an indicator of style over substance (possibly???). If 2010 showed no
significantly better win % then, style is quite clearly the desire.

2010 is viewed quite fondly but again, our record was a 60% win rate.

That year included three memorable games (from a positive perspective) which were beating South Africa at Bloemfontein with KB (Kurtley Beale)'s long range kick, the All Blacks in Hong Kong with the try and conversion by JOC (James O'Connor), and the French game in Paris where we demolished them in the second half.

That year also featured a debacle at home against England where we were lucky to win one game and lost the second where our scrum got completely destroyed and the game against England on the EOYT where we got smashed.

I agree that style is important and it potentially makes people forget about some of our poorer performances but at the time I don't think those good games had much of an impact in calming the anger about our poor performances.

I think strong results are what gets remembered above all else. If we win the Lions series it will be long remembered as a great series regardless of how the play of both sides was critiqued at the time.

 

[Sully]

We need to ask ourselves if we are happy with a 60 per cent win ratio. Because if we continue with our current coach there is a pretty good chance that's what we're going to get. Robbie Deans was bought in to improve that and after 5 years it's barely moved. I'm not happy with that and I'm ready to try another coach. An Australian coach.

 

[Braveheart81]

We need to ask ourselves if we are happy with a 60 per cent win ratio. Because if we continue with our current coach there is a pretty good chance that's what we're going to get. Robbie Deans was bought in to improve that and after 5 years it's barely moved. I'm not happy with that and I'm ready to try another coach. An Australian coach.

I'm ready for another coach too, but I think any expectation of a win percentage much over 60% is probably wishful thinking (certainly not a reason to sack a future coach).

If we average 14 tests a year (3 mid year, 6 TRC, 1 extra Bledisloe, 4 EOYT), that means we have 3 tests against NZ, 1 in South Africa and 4 in Europe that are all tough to win.

If you said in an average year we're going to lose one test to South Africa, two to NZ and two on the EOYT then we're already under 65%.

Obviously better results against NZ are a massive desire for every Wallabies fan but the reality is it always has been a tough thing to achieve and always will be.

Likewise, winning in South Africa is really tough as is winning more than two out of four on an EOYT.

 

[lewisr]

Braveheart81 Just a reply to your one of your previous posts regarding Eddie's comments:

I think if I personally had to rate Robbie's 'success' (and thats in all things such as player development, ability to entertain and not just winning ratio) it would never be consistent for his tenure. I think he really did a good job in his early years and blooded a heap of talented players like Pocock and the three idiots. The Wobs played good rugby and funnily enough it made us forget that his ratio wasn't any better that it is now.

BUT, it seems as time has gone on and we have had the Elsom captaincy dilemma, World cup failings in Cooper and selection of a single 7, Giteau outburst etc etc. he has rapidly declined. I feel like every time he speaks he is coming up with excuses for his weird decisions and selections. He seems to have lost his self confidence and is now clutching at straws in an attempt to hold onto a 'job' rather than coaching a team that means so much to us Aussies.

So I think that he HAS been a half decent coach. It's just that we forget the good stuff easily and it's time for some fresh legs.

 

[USARugger]

But is that an appealing game plan?

Pulver talks about playing a traditional, Aussie style of rugby, and I'm not sure White's chosen style will fit with this.
.

I don't think there are many game plans which aren't appealing as long as they are being executed with purpose and direction.

Personally I think the 'Aussie Style' thing is nothing more than a myth. Regardless, the Brumbies are 3rd on the total table for tries with 41. The notion that the Brumbies play a 'low scoring' style of rugby is factually untrue. They are not only 3rd on the table for tries as a team but I believe Henry Speight is still the individual top try scorer.

fatprop

A little unfair to judge them on their first full season with a new coach. Doubly so when you consider where the Brumbies were when J. White joined them in May of 2011.

 

[BarneySF]

""We've got plans, don't worry about that. And they're good ones,"

(when addressing in particular the bench makeup)

An uncharacteristically buoyant/confident Robbie? Even touching on the "nah nah na na nahs"?

Almost as if he's resigned to something......Shit this has been a slow week.

BRING IT ON BITCHES

 

[fatprop]

r.

fatprop

A little unfair to judge them on their first full season with a new coach. Doubly so when you consider where the Brumbies were when J. White joined them in May of 2011.

Consider it balance to your point "The Brumbies rarely have issues executing their gameplan." it was incorrect, it needed "this year" added to the statement

 

[fatprop]

If this rumour of White being the next Wobs coach is correct.

Which players will win or "lose".

White's play is more conservative than Deans generally, and far more regimented/structured.

It clearly isn't chuck it wide from your own 22

 

[Ruggo]

Link for next Wallabies coach please.

Looking at the CV Sully posted just shows the depth of experience and understanding Link has with how Australia plays it's best rugby over a significant period of time. We all know he is a great at tactics and gets the best out of the players he coaches. Both he and White have proven track records of providing good culture and getting good assistants.

 

[redstragic]

The wallaby coach developed the players did he. All those super Rugby and club coaches found them and got them fit and trained them must be pissed off that all they had to do was ask Robbie to develop them.
And he single handedly fixed our scrum. He is amazing. And dragged up the scrums of the franchises at the same time. Because that can't be a coincidence he must of fixed them too.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

Robbie has done a good job with the ponies this year and who can forget the picture of Deans holding aloft the super rugby trophy in 2011.

From my perspective in the last few years the super teams have gone about improving, bringing through their own talent to a level that the national coach will take notice.

Mentioning him in the same breath as Sir Alex is an offence. What win-loss percent have the Wobs had under deans? It has not improved year on year suggesting the national squad has not been developing.

I have found my passion for the Wobs waning during the deans tenure. I have been confused and dissapointed regularly. I want my passion back.

 

[I like to watch]

The wallaby coach developed the players did he. All those super Rugby and club coaches found them and got them fit and trained them must be pissed off that all they had to do was ask Robbie to develop them.
And he single handedly fixed our scrum. He is amazing. And dragged up the scrums of the franchises at the same time. Because that can't be a coincidence he must of fixed them too.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

I get the sarcasm when you talk about Robbie.
I don't quite get it when you talk about Link.It's like you really believe he is a super hero with a cape and everything.
It would be churlish to suggest Link can't coach, but it is naive to think he is a standard deviation above RD & JW.
I think it is ironic that many of Link's supporters rave about his man management.
I think it's poor,he has developed at least 2 high profile players with an attitude of entitlement.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Link will bring his own set of problems. So would White.
The only issue is whether they're public or private.

 

[Sully]

I think it's poor,he has developed at least 2 high profile players with an attitude of entitlement.

You think Genia and Horwill have a sense of entitlement? Tough marker. Or is it Morahan or Tapps or Lance? Quirk, Schatz or GIll? Perhaps he developed them despite their sense of entitlement.

fwiw Cooper doesn't have a sense of entitlement. He just love rugby and what it's done for him. I have no idea who the other guy is you're talking about.

 

[I like to watch]

We can agree to disagree on QC (Quade Cooper), the other is Digby.
Even your CEO is on record, about his poor attitude and unrealistic expectations.