long term coach?

[Sully]

The wallaby coach developed the players did he. All those super Rugby and club coaches found them and got them fit and trained them must be pissed off that all they had to do was ask Robbie to develop them.
And he single handedly fixed our scrum. He is amazing. And dragged up the scrums of the franchises at the same time. Because that can't be a coincidence he must of fixed them too.

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[cyclopath]

If we win this series, it won't be because of Deans. We didn't win the Wales series because of Deans, and James Horwill himself has stated that this is this case. In the post match interview, he described the fact that being able to come from behind like that, having the tenacity to turn up and scrape home in the dying minutes was

"Something you can't coach . It came from within. It came from a place that coaches can't reach".

<snip>

6 years is plenty of time to show you have what it takes. I am sick of his unmatched ability to dump high quality players, select out of position, unfit players and destroy Aussie style of rugby that used to be some of the most entertaining in the world.

I hope to god Pulver lives up to his word of playing "Ball in hand, attacking, exciting and entertaining rugby"

That's one interpretation of what Horwill said - another is to say that the mongrel to keep fighting comes from within, and I would hope any player who pulls on a Wallaby jersey has that innately, rather than needing it instilled. I actually think that is what he is saying, not that "Robbie is a crap coach and we did it ourselves".
I agree 6 years is plenty, and overall, we have been less than I hoped so it is time to move along, but I differ in that I am not sure this mystical Aussie 'style' of rugby really existed, as the better Wallaby teams have won in many different styles. I like the way they have played, or at least tried to play this series, for example.

 

[barbarian]

Forgetting about the last six years, and all the baggage that comes with it, I think Deans has done a good job this series.

He has picked a good side, and they are playing fast, ball-in-hand, physical rugby. This is the best they have played in ages. Set piece is strong too.

At the moment Deans has outcoached Gatland.

I am not a huge Deans fan, but I reckon he is putting forward a strong case for retention at the moment. Still a lot of rugby to go before contract negotiation time, obviously, but if he keeps this up then he will be hard to say no to.
.

 

[Scoey]

Forgetting about the last six years, and all the baggage that comes with it, I think Deans has done a good job this series.

He has picked a good side, and they are playing fast, ball-in-hand, physical rugby. This is the best they have played in ages. Set piece is strong too.

At the moment Deans has outcoached Gatland.

I am not a huge Deans fan, but I reckon he is putting forward a strong case for retention at the moment. Still a lot of rugby to go before contract negotiation time, obviously, but if he keeps this up then he will be hard to say no to.
.

Hard to disagree with that barbarian. It doesn't mean it doesn't hurt to hear it and that plenty won't try but it's genuinely hard to disagree with that!

 

[Ash]

Any comparisons of a coach of a national team to a club team are complete rubbish.

Sir Alex Ferguson could scout the world and hire the cream of the crop to fill the positions he wanted. If the player was a tool, then he could afford to let him go and hunt the world for a similar replacement.

Additionally, club teams scout and develop players for young ages. They deal in the day to day training and development of a player. Players can be scouted from anywhere.

National teams are chosen from a limited pool of experienced players. Limited further development of the player can occur in the national environment (apart from valuable experience) due to the limited amount of time in the national squad compared to their overall time and development in a club squad. National teams can improve players, but can't provide the basics - players must already have these from the club development.

How does that relate at all to the limited stocks of a national side?

Comparisons of the Wallabies to ManU are therefore a complete waste of time.

 

[Train Without a Station]

View attachment 3873

i havnt been happy with all deans' decisions as much as anyone, but i fear we could be about to throw out a coach who might be on the cusp of understanding this whole international coaching gig
ultimately people are gunna judge him on end results but i think its important when analyzing performance to consider the greater 'deans' effect. is rugby in a stronger position than when he took over?
i think our depth is far stronger than it has ever been

If it's taken him 6 seasons to understand this whole international coaching gig then he definitely isn't the man to lead us forward. How long is it going to take him to catch onto to strategic and tactical trends?

I'd like to think our depth is stronger. We have 40% more professional domestic players since when Eddie Jones was coach being forced to pick players like Lloyd Johansson on the wing for the Wallabies. If our depth hasn't improved something must be extremely wrong.

thing is i reckon: deans put his house on cooper being australias 10-
nobody could have predicted he'd crumble under pressure,

So it's Cooper's fault? Funnily enough he has performed reasonable well under pressure for the Reds... And I know it's only been Super Rugby finals for them and all... When the cogs around him are performing.

Can you throw me some examples of flyhalves who have been able to perform well in teams that are comprehensively beaten in the forwards?

 

[jimmydubs]

Back around October 2009 many people had their panties in a twist over Dingo benching G. Smith in favor of Pocock. It was a very bold decision to make at the time and gave Poey the chance to shine on the international stage as an 80-minute defensive juggernaut.

Then again he also shuffled AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) around for fucking years instead of just letting him play at 13 after Mortlock was too broken to keep going

Still got my panties in a twist about it. Pocock should've been on the bench behind smith to this day until the rest of his game developed. A defensive juggernaut he may be but George Smith he is not, and still is not.

 

[jay-c]

If it's taken him 6 seasons to understand this whole international coaching gig then he definitely isn't the man to lead us forward. How long is it going to take him to catch onto to strategic and tactical trends?

I'd like to think our depth is stronger. We have 40% more professional domestic players since when Eddie Jones was coach being forced to pick players like Lloyd Johansson on the wing for the Wallabies. If our depth hasn't improved something must be extremely wrong.



So it's Cooper's fault? Funnily enough he has performed reasonable well under pressure for the Reds. And I know it's only been Super Rugby finals for them and all. When the cogs around him are performing.

Can you throw me some examples of flyhalves who have been able to perform well in teams that are comprehensively beaten in the forwards?

dont get the wrong idea mate, im not throwing all my weight behind resigning deans- im jus pointing out that despite our record against the kiwis almost every other "kpi" has actually had great results
just throwing the topic out there for discussion
considering the injuries- it wasnt too long ago that major injuries to key players and we just accepted a defeat was likely- now we are winning those games- ugly as it may look
our s15 depth is stronger sure but despite his knockers everybody can see that greater wallaby quality depth is a deans success

if u remember that s15 final cooper was actually quite poor so i wouldnt say hes performed under pressure for the reds> it was the forwards and genia who won that game
but dont get me wrong im one of his biggest fans and i rate him the best attacking player in the world
i want him back in the wallabies no doubt- i feel badly for the guy cause out of the 'three amigos' hes the only one who can honestly say hes changed his behaviour- he deserves another shot to get back in there but i can understand why the lions series wasnt the place to find out

 

[BPC]

I will vote for replacing Deans, if only that the inevitable complaints about the new coach will be fresh and different rather than the same stuff rehashed over the last six years. Variety is the spice of life, apparently.

 

[Slim 293]

considering the injuries- it wasnt too long ago that major injuries to key players and we just accepted a defeat was likely- now we are winning those games- ugly as it may look

I don't think I ever expected us to lose games at home to the likes of Scotland and Samoa under Jones or Connolly.........

 

[ACT Crusader]

Oh, and I don't ever recall Ferguson asking Roy Keane to play as a striker.

BUt did move Giggs from the left wing to a more central playmaking role. mmm sounds like JOC (James O'Connor) all over

 

[Gurz]

I think Robbie did well in early days but its become very evident that he doesn't 'get' Aussie culture. Lets face it most Aussie rugby supporters are private school boys who like to banter and talk it up with the best of them. You can clearly see in the Reds team that the culture is alive and well and the players really enjoy each other's company and dig deep for one another on the field. Robbie doesn't instill that into the bulk of Wallaby players. Its a gift that only a few have and no doubt Link has it. IMO Link MUST be the coach of the wallabies purely based on nationality and culture.

Consider this too - to borrow a League example - would NSW ever get Wayne Bennett to coach the Blues...?? why not good coach...?? BUT his heart would never be in it. WHY then would you get an AB supporter to coach the Wallabies - sure at first made sense but now its clear that it wont work and until Link is coach we wont win another Bledisloe.......................

 

[USARugger]

The wallaby coach developed the players did he. All those super Rugby and club coaches found them and got them fit and trained them must be pissed off that all they had to do was ask Robbie to develop them.
And he single handedly fixed our scrum. He is amazing. And dragged up the scrums of the franchises at the same time. Because that can't be a coincidence he must of fixed them too.

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[Brumby Runner]

dont get the wrong idea mate, im not throwing all my weight behind resigning deans- im jus pointing out that despite our record against the kiwis almost every other "kpi" has actually had great results
just throwing the topic out there for discussion
considering the injuries- it wasnt too long ago that major injuries to key players and we just accepted a defeat was likely- now we are winning those games- ugly as it may look
our s15 depth is stronger sure but despite his knockers everybody can see that greater wallaby quality depth is a deans success

if u remember that s15 final cooper was actually quite poor so i wouldnt say hes performed under pressure for the reds> it was the forwards and genia who won that game
but dont get me wrong im one of his biggest fans and i rate him the best attacking player in the world
i want him back in the wallabies no doubt- i feel badly for the guy cause out of the 'three amigos' hes the only one who can honestly say hes changed his behaviour- he deserves another shot to get back in there but i can understand why the lions series wasnt the place to find out

The real depth, ie players who were not part of the Deans' roster 12 - 24 months ago, at the moment includes Sio, Douglas, Mowen, Gill, Hooper, White, Lealiifano, Tomane, Folau, Cummins and Mogg. All developed by their respective S15 coaches. The emerging depth includes Siliva, Pyle, Jones, Neville, Carter, Cotterill, Schatz, To'omua, Foley, Godwin, Kuridrani, F'Sautia, none of whom have had the 'benefit' of the Deans' magic touch.

The Wallabies do look good for the next few years at least, but hopefully not under the guiding hand of Deans.

 

[ChargerWA]

I deleted my last post, as it was treading dangerously close to turning this into another Deans bashing thread, which we already have plenty of.

To address the OP, I don't see how 6 years in the world of international coaching can't already be considered long term. Historically, 6 years is a damn fine run and plenty of opportunity to showcase your talents.

Now is the perfect opportunity to give the next coach a full 3 year run at the RWC. Our squad will be in the Goldilocks zone, that magic average age of 27 where experience and youthful talent combine to historically have the best chance of winning the title. Time to sign someone for 3 years and see what they can do.

White would be my first choice, but McKenzie would be fine too (though I just have this feeling that his public quest for the job coupled with apparent animosity between the ARU and QRU, he may just end up getting overlooked).

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

Deans got us into a world cup final against NZ at home and lost. And he's won a tri nations as well. They are my highlights anyway.

I'm sure it's tempting to give him an extension because who knows, maybe he is actually keeping us in the world's top 3? Our player talent pool really isn't that big.

But I think it would be more appropriate if they put the job up for offer at the end of this term. There's only 1 man who could be picked ahead of him, and if that man applies then yeah, we have a big call on our hands!

 

[I like to watch]

But I think it would be more appropriate if they put the job up for offer at the end of this term. There's only 1 man who could be picked ahead of him, and if that man applies then yeah, we have a big call on our hands!

I thought Foley signed a long term contract with the Force?

 

[lewisr]

White would be my first choice, but McKenzie would be fine too (though I just have this feeling that his public quest for the job coupled with apparent animosity between the ARU and QRU, he may just end up getting overlooked).

Out of interest, why White over Ewen? I completely agree that his world cup win is a massive boost to his CV but I feel as though it's really Ewen's time. He's been assistant to one of Australia's most successful head coaches. Ever. He's led a massive revival at the Reds not only on the field, but culturally as a team and as a Rugby Union (I agree, White has done this as well but the Brumbies had only really been off for two years, Reds had been in the cellar for quite a while).

I can see that this will be viewed as quite biased (Reds supporter and Ewen as the Picture), but to some degree I feel like Ewen not only deserves it the most, he also wants it the most. White has 'expressed interest' in the role, whilst we have a home grown, Wallaby Prop, genuine Aussie bloke so keen he has already made it clear he's walking out on the reds at the end of the year and knocked back at least 2 international offers and a request to return to the Reds. This guy wants it, and he wants it bad.

The credentials are there, he understands how to manage players and win titles, beat the bloody kiwis and develop a new game plan when it is called for.

Don't get me wrong, Jake is an absolutely brilliant coach. He has shown it time and time again through the Brumbies, a Tri Nations in 2004 and a World Cup in 07, but we have gone through with the foreign experiment once and it hasn't really worked out. Why not go back to someone that knows the ins and outs of Aussie Rugby? Someone who can build a serious support network around himself in Australia and call on the knowledge of a Lions Series as a coach (plus much more) and a World Cup as a player.

For me the answer is obvious. But I think your comment about the tension between the ARU and QRU is also true... And E.M. may end up being a casualty of that.

 

[Slim 293]

It is likely to come down to either Deans, Link or White later this year, and the Brumbies have indicated they won't get in White's way if he applies:

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/rug...umbies-give-white-rep-nod-20130703-2pchp.html

The Australian also believes that White is the favourite:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/rugby-union/white-wallabies-pick/story-e6frg7o6-1226672821857

I'd be happy with either Link or White, but to address the question of what White would bring to the Wallabies I think we need to look at some of the things he's brought to the Brumbies which I think has been a weakness for Australia, and many Australian teams for a while now:

- Physicality at the breakdown
- Security under the high ball
- Good/smart kicking game combined with a good kick chase

Deans has done some good things in his tenure but it's time for a change, and this year would be perfect leading up to the next RWC.......

I truly believe Australia has the cattle to contest the AB's for that top spot, but I don't see it happening under Deans.........

On a side note I also believe we eventually need to humble a couple of overhyped, overpaid, immature, under performing "stars" who, on current form, don't warrant a mention in the starting XV..........

 

[Brumbieman]

I think he's done a reasonable job, and he's certainly built a strong base for the next coach.

What I don't think he has, is the ability to take this team to the next level. I see us in a similar position to 1995/96. Lots of talented players, but an underachieving team.

I think if Link took over after the Lions series, we'd be absolutely humming in very little time at all. It's the last 10% we're missing, and Link has proven time and again that he is able to provide that last 10% to turn a team into the best possible form of themselves.

He did it at the Tahs, and now the Reds, each within only a year or two, and he has already had international coaching experience. He's off contract, has already worked with/and won with/got the best out of, a very large chunk of the Wallaby squad.


Bring it on.