long term coach?

[jay-c]

if the wallabies win the series against the lions im gunna put it out there and suggest i wouldnt be against the idea of deans getting an extension and becoming a real long term coach>
every time we get a new coach we begin a few 'rebuilding' years
i for one, feel that coaching is an ongoing learning experience and the longer a coach has in the position the better they will be at it
i look at sir alex ferguson as an example who during his 26 years at manchester united, won 38 trophies, including 13 Premier League and two UEFA Champions League titles. most people i find who are against deans point to the 'boring' style played last year as their reasoning but it shouldnt be forgotten that many of our top players were injured or woefully out of form and none of the waratahs were fit, despite this- deans played a low risk, strong defensive game which beat "the best welsh team to tour in 30 years" and beat them 3-0. upon this strong defensive, low risk game i believe the foundations can be made for a more attacking game- knowing we have the confidence to play defense if necessary. of course ill reserve judgement till this series is over... id like to see how we perform against new zealand this year as i think they are looking considerably weaker than any time in the last decade- and as an aside- im all for mckenzie getting the wallabies gig i think his ability to beat kiwi teams is unrivaled- but i can see the benefits of a long term coach-

 

[jay-c]

 

[Sully]

I think he's had his chance to perform. Regardless of the lions tests results it's time for a new coach.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Train Without a Station]

Well said. As a coach into his sixth season, his future shouldn't come down to a best of three series. He would have shown already in the 5 previous years why he should or should not be our coach.

 

[It is what it is]

No

 

[Jets]

I think that our success this series is in spite of Deans not because of it. The playing group have really taken to heart what a privilege it is to play for the Wallabies in a Lions series and don't want to be seen as the team that let them win. Deans has stuck with his guns over selection, something I actually admire him for, even though the JOC (James O'Connor) at 10 isn't working and Beale isn't quite ready for a start at test level after everything that has happened this year. He doesn't seem to be able to provide a game plan that suits the squad. I think McKenzie or White would do a better job.
I feel that every player in the squad is trying their hardest to win, including JOC (James O'Connor) and Beale, and as a result they managed to stay so close in the first test and finish over thee top in the second. This player resolve make me feel it is more important for the coach to be changed. For the first time in a long time, not including 2011 when the other teams picked weaker teams, I feel we can the test series this year if we have good leadership.
You mention rebuilding but I don't think it's required. I think this squad of players has the talent to bring home the Grand Slam at the end of the year and anything less will, in my eyes, be a disappointment.
This is a chance for Pulver the remove a big legacy of the JON era and I feel it has to be done.

 

[Athilnaur]

Definitely a put up or shut up year for Deans, and fair enough he has had a good crack. But something tells me even winning the Bled cup this year wouldn't be enough for many here

 

[Badger]

i look at sir alex ferguson as an example who during his 26 years at manchester united, won 38 trophies, including 13 Premier League and two UEFA Champions League titles.

Excluding the various trophies played for between nations, the only major trophy the Wallabies have won with Deans as coach is the Tri Nations and that was truncated due to the RWC in 2011. Maybe he can add the retention of the Tom Richards Cup on Saturday as well, but it's hard to compare Deans to Sir Alex.

 

[USARugger]

He's had the longest tenure of any Australian coach (I think he's just shaded E. Jones at this point, right?) and has done both good and bad things for Australian rugby.

An issue I have though is that it seems with every 'genius' moment, an equally unforgivable act of coaching arises in the same vein. Unearthing Pocock and then trying to force the No.10 jersey on JOC (James O'Connor) in this Lions series comes to mind. Whether this is the result of a coach who takes many more risks than people give him credit, a coach throwing darts in a dark hallway, or a coach who has lost his confidence over the years only time will tell.

One thing that cannot be overlooked though is the fact that he has fallen short of many, if not all, of the metrics set forth by the ARU following the dismissal of Connolly. The fact that this really has never been addressed on top of the overall lack of transparency over the past few years (still waiting on that RWC review..) points towards the issues being centered towards the upper echelon of the ARU. When considered alongside the issues surrounding other aspects of Australian rugby, like the funding (or lack of) for club rugby, which have nothing to do with Robbie at all - it is undeniable where this poisoned flower buries it's roots.

I think the greater evil since 2008 has largely been the ARU and not Deans himself. A new head coach would be nice but if we really want to see changes in the culture of the highest tier of Australian rugby the restructure will have to reach much higher than the Head Coach position.

We have an incredibly talented and able playing group right now, possibly one of the best the Wallabies have ever had. I pray that this platform will not be squandered by mismanagement and corruption stemming from the cloistered halls of the ARU.

 

[Train Without a Station]

'unearthing' Pocock? If picking young players is 'unearthing' them then every Wallaby coach has 'unearthed' talent. McQueen picking Larkham as a 10 when he had been playing 15 mainly. Genius. Deans picking O'Conner, Cooper, Beale, Pocock... All young, highly rated players... Competence...

Though I will note that Beale has continually benefited from Mad Robbie's influence and Quade did initially.

 

[Train Without a Station]

But yeah. Right on. His failure's echo those which got Knuckles sacked before him after a 2 year tenure leading up to a World Cup where he did not have the same opportunities as Deans to develop and mould his squad.

 

[USARugger]

'unearthing' Pocock? If picking young players is 'unearthing' them then every Wallaby coach has 'unearthed' talent. McQueen picking Larkham as a 10 when he had been playing 15 mainly. Genius. Deans picking O'Conner, Cooper, Beale, Pocock. All young, highly rated players. Competence.

Though I will note that Beale has continually benefited from Mad Robbie's influence and Quade did initially.

Back around October 2009 many people had their panties in a twist over Dingo benching G. Smith in favor of Pocock. It was a very bold decision to make at the time and gave Poey the chance to shine on the international stage as an 80-minute defensive juggernaut.

Then again he also shuffled AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) around for fucking years instead of just letting him play at 13 after Mortlock was too broken to keep going

 

[jay-c]

but it's hard to compare Deans to Sir Alex.

ferguson had 5 years building his team, and once he took the premier league title he enjoyed a pretty successful era (manchester uniter years on his wiki page is a pretty interesting read)
i havnt been happy with all deans' decisions as much as anyone, but i fear we could be about to throw out a coach who might be on the cusp of understanding this whole international coaching gig
ultimately people are gunna judge him on end results but i think its important when analyzing performance to consider the greater 'deans' effect. is rugby in a stronger position than when he took over?
i think our depth is far stronger than it has ever been- and thats allowing us to compete last year with the enormous injury toll and considering this year without 4 of our best forwards in tpn, pocock, higgenbotham and smith (till now) unable to play a part and just think of the scrum... think of the scrum "you remember what it used to be like"
its hard to compare ferguson with other coaches because most get sacked before they are allowed to shine

 

[jay-c]

thing is i reckon: deans put his house on cooper being australias 10-
nobody could have predicted he'd crumble under pressure, remember mccabe was brought in solely to cover coopers defensive issues, now after 5 years of backing cooper hes had to change plan.
i honestly think that these last few years will be the making of this team, think the 1st test how we were able to get ourselves into a position to steal the win twice- thats a level of professionalism we havnt had since the golden era. weve got confidence in our defense now and upon this structure we will build our attack

 

[fatprop]

thing is i reckon: deans put his house on cooper being australias 10-
nobody could have predicted he'd crumble under pressure, remember mccabe was brought in solely to cover coopers defensive issues, now after 5 years of backing cooper hes had to change plan.
i honestly think that these last few years will be the making of this team, think the 1st test how we were able to get ourselves into a position to steal the win twice- thats a level of professionalism we havnt had since the golden era. weve got confidence in our defense now and upon this structure we will build our attack

Yeah, he pulled the pin on Cooper and looked for a plan B with who was left, that was to be a more conservative, combative approach, (Kiwi team based approach), less about individuals and more about everyone contributing and wanting everyone to do those 1%'ers for everyone else.

This may be heresy around here, but I think he has built a strong base for his replacement.

 

[lewisr]

I personally believe that there is a difference between coaching a premier league team in Man U and being at the helm of an international rugby union powerhouse. There is less money involved, the governing body (ARU vs Man U board) are funded in extremely different ways and most importantly, in extremely different volumes. To compare the two, in my opinion, is like comparing apples and oranges.

Deans' has had his time to show that he can produce an effective and relentless footy team. Those that say he hasn't had 'the cattle' are ignoring the oodles of talent we have in the backs and now very strong provincial forwards the nation is producing. No, we aren't South Africa with their enormous boys, or The ABs with their unbelievable ability to push out perfectly balanced teams, but it is just as much the coaches role to play off strengths rather than model your approach of a completely different nation.

Let's say he did stay on, do we just keep using the excuse that he doesn't have the man power, that there are too many injuries? Do we sit here and accept that we will forever be in third place? I for one hope not. Everyone that has half a footy brain would know that if we played against the All Blacks on Saturday night with that back line and that approach at the breakdown, we would have been blown off the park.

Unfortunately, he has defeated them only twice in his six year tenure. We haven't had the bledisloe for 10.... There are kids in year 5 who haven't seen the Wallabies win the cup! Frankly, keeping him on isn't going to change anything.

If we win this series, it won't be because of Deans. We didn't win the Wales series because of Deans, and James Horwill himself has stated that this is this case. In the post match interview, he described the fact that being able to come from behind like that, having the tenacity to turn up and scrape home in the dying minutes was

"Something you can't coach . It came from within. It came from a place that coaches can't reach".

And that is what we see in alot of wallaby victories... We see the pride and passion in the jersey override the failings of an incompetent game plan or a flailing back line. We see Horwill and Genia trying absolutely everything to get past the flaws, even though they both disagree with some of the selections.

Robbie has lost his self confidence. Everytime he tries to justify a selection or a failing, it is not only expressed in that unenterprising, stumbling, manner, the argument itself does not make sense. It is riddled with double standards, a lack of real evidence and full of excuses that seem to be 'clutching at straws' as we so often say on here.

6 years is plenty of time to show you have what it takes. I am sick of his unmatched ability to dump high quality players, select out of position, unfit players and destroy Aussie style of rugby that used to be some of the most entertaining in the world.

I hope to god Pulver lives up to his word of playing "Ball in hand, attacking, exciting and entertaining rugby"

 

[lewisr]

This may be heresy around here, but I think he has built a strong base for his replacement.

Won't argue the first part because that will end up in a shitstorm, but I do agree with that sentence.


He has built a massive base for the next coach. Blooded a heap of players and introduced all of them into the international environment and that is one thing he can be very proud of. The next coach will have a plethora of experience to pick from.

 

[fatprop]

On the "Ferguson" approach, please note my signature.

I would assume he would have been far less tolerant of many of the Aus backs

 

[ACT Crusader]

Everyone that has half a footy brain would know that if we played against the All Blacks on Saturday night with that back line and that approach at the breakdown, we would have been blown off the park.

Comparing a test match against the Lions and the All Blacks is like comparing apples and oranges also

The All Blacks have taken quite different approaches to strategy and style against different teams.

Take the semi vs OZ and the final vs France. From my armchair we kept wnating to spread it wide quickly as possible vs OZ, whereas we kept the ball pretty tight in close quarters for much of the final.

I would not be at all disappointed with how things went on Saturday. It was a massive ocassion and one that the Deans and the team should be proud of. They tried alot of stuff when you watch it on replay (without all the emotion) but some poor decision making and errors thwarted the positive play.

I will agree that Deans has had a heap of talent at his disposal but what can't be denied is that alot of that talent has been injured and in and out of the Wallabies selection frame. I think the selectors have had a hell of a time trying to build long term combinations as in the midfield and back row.

You mentioned AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), he was the best performing fullback at Super level way back when, but when Mortlock retired the cupboard was bare at centre. Tough decision to make and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was eventually rotated between both out of necessity rather than having the luxury to have a pool to select from.

 

[Craig Riddington]

It's a fair point that a coach should be given time on the job but I don't think you can compare Ferguson's legacy to what you might expect from an international rugby coach for so many, many reasons. For one thing, Ferguson didn't start off having the players to bring success but Deans did. Most importantly of all, you could see how Ferguson was developing his squad, how the young talent (Beckham, Scholes, Giggs et al) were progressing and how they were moving forward as a group. In the whole time that I have watched the Wallabies under Deans, I have got no idea how they are developing as a squad. It strikes me, despite the amazing array of talent in Australian rugby, the Wallabies have lost their mojo. I'm only going to say this once, but that is a tragedy for all of rugby. Theres lots of spirit, great defence and individual brilliance, but where have all the smart plays gone? I obviously want the Lions to win this series but I hope that that win brings in someone who can help the Wallabies get their mojo back.


Oh, and I don't ever recall Ferguson asking Roy Keane to play as a striker.