Lions Watch

[USARugger]

I like SOBs style of simply being too fucking big to move one he gets his bear paws around the ball

 

[JSRF10]

I like SOBs style of simply being too fucking big to move one he gets his bear paws around the ball

He is awesome once he gets up a head of steam! He will need to be used well for the Lions to make an impact. Ireland have used him woefully in recent times, if the Lions get the ball 2 passes away from the ruck quickly and get SOB running at JOC (James O'Connor), Cooper etc he could do some serious damage

 

[USARugger]

I hope he gets a good recovery period between the 6Ns and Lions because he was tacking up some ridiculous numbers during the 6Ns. Quite literally carrying the team on his back; don't want to see him break down like Ferris. Speaking of, imagine if that bastard was healthy and available, we dodged a bullet there.

Here's fingers crossed for McKenzie to get the Ireland job and breathing some life into things. So much misused talent and selections that make Deans look like a rugby genius have nearly made me forget entirely what 2009 felt like!

Whoever it is needs to start setting the groundwork for a new 12-13 pairing immediately though. I literally cringe when I think about an Irish midfield without BOD.

 

[JSRF10]

Ferris when he is fit is the best blindside in the NH, he is a freak of nature unfortunately always seems to get niggley injuries. He was very badly used by Kidney, he was flogged relentlessly when fit when he should have bene given 60 minutes against the big teams rested against Italy, Scotland etc. There was a period last year when he didn't train between at all between games his knee was so bad!

He is off to Japan for a year next season, apparently he turned down some offers from Super 15 clubs as well. Michael Cheika tried to sign him for Leinster back in 2009 so I imagine that he could have made a play for him to come to the Tahs. It could do him the world of good, a year of low intensity rugby then back for the World Cup year.

 

[USARugger]

He needs it. Kidney was a muppet through and through. Didn't really develop much talent and badly abused the talent we had. Just look at what's happened to the bodies of SOB, Ferris and BOD since he took the reins. Being a shitty coach is one thing but jeopardizing careers because you're so shitty you can't either can't understand or choose to ignore the concept of work-loads and periodization is just abhorrent and unacceptable at that level. No player should ever have their body put at risk for the sake of trying to keep some muppet in the chair of power longer. Completely backwards and wrong.

I hope he returns much in the fashion MMM did, the guy is an absolute freak and incredibly entertaining to watch. He's an invaluable asset to Irish rugby. I mean, compare him to O'Mahoney. Oh, right. There is no comparison.

 

[the plastic paddy]

Ferris got injured playing for the Lions before anyone gets over excited blaming it all on DK. And on POM, did you watch the Quins game over the weekend? He is very young as well.

 

[JSRF10]

Ferris got injured playing for the Lions before anyone gets over excited blaming it all on DK. And on POM, did you watch the Quins game over the weekend? He is very young as well.

I think POM is a lot of potential, but he is a completely different player to Ferris. I'm not so sure 6 is his best position either just doesn't have the raw physicality of a Ferris, Smith or Kaino, he strikes me as more of a Tom Croft (except actually good and not Stephen Jones' jiz rag). He is quick, skillful and a good line out jumper. However I'm not sure what his best position is to be honest. the plastic paddy where do you think he'll end up? I think, in Irish terms, he is the 3rd best 6 (behind Fez and SOB), 2nd best 7 (behind SOB) and 2nd best 8 (behind Heaslip). He'd be a useful man for the Lions to have, but I think Gatland won't take him even if he looked in smashing from at the weekend.

 

[Italophile]

I'm not sure where POM fits in either. Seems to me at the moment that he plays better the better the team is playing. If that makes sense. Great potential, though.

You'd have to think the 9s will be Youngs, Phillips and Murray. Youngs the odd one out in the trio. Personally, Youngs would worry me more if his confidence is up with any sort of front-foot ball.

Fatland said weeks ago that he'd identified his skipper though hadn't yet told the player involved. He also said the player concerned wouldn't necessarily be selected if his form isn't up to it at the time. It was prior to POC's blazing return.

 

[qwerty51]

Youngs should be the starter, Phillips did nothing against Australia in the last 5 games, Genia owns him. Youngs has played well against Aus nearly every time he's played us, he's quicker and more suited down here.

 

[the plastic paddy]

I think POM is a lot of potential, but he is a completely different player to Ferris. I'm not so sure 6 is his best position either just doesn't have the raw physicality of a Ferris, Smith or Kaino, he strikes me as more of a Tom Croft (except actually good and not Stephen Jones' jiz rag). He is quick, skillful and a good line out jumper. However I'm not sure what his best position is to be honest. the plastic paddy where do you think he'll end up? I think, in Irish terms, he is the 3rd best 6 (behind Fez and SOB), 2nd best 7 (behind SOB) and 2nd best 8 (behind Heaslip). He'd be a useful man for the Lions to have, but I think Gatland won't take him even if he looked in smashing from at the weekend.

I think POM will end up at eight myself. It is important when discussing him to bear in mind he is not 24 until september. Generally, Irish lads do not physically mature at anything like the rate of many other nationalities which is what marks out SOB and Ferris as so unusual. It is obviously a given with me that I don't want to see him playing for the Lions. However, if I play devil's advocate, I can see a good argument for his going to Aus but I don't think he will go because he is not physically robust enough yet. A good summer break, well structured pre season, a good start to next season and POM could be pushing Coughlin for the starting 8 berth at Munster. If the early HC campaign goes well the new Ireland coach could think it might be time for Heaslip to step aside. It looks like Ferris is off to Japan so he is out of the equation for next year. Tommy O'Donnell will be capped this summer and offers more classic 7 play than SOB, given the way he has progressed this year he could be pushing hard. Add in Henderson who is a beast of a young man and regarded by many of the Ulster lads as being ahead of Ferris at the same age, and the Irish back row is looking fairly well stacked. Factor in the likes of Jordi Murphy, Butler, DOC II and in two years Stander (not that I am too comfortable about it), Dom Ryan who is off to Connacht I believe, Ruddock, Mclaughlin and Henry..... Lots of competition there.

 

[JSRF10]

I think, as an aside to the Lions chat, we are very well stock in the backrow. POM probably is the long term successor at but he needs more bulk and could learn from Heaslips control of the ball at the back of the scrum. Of the young back rows probably most excited about Henderson, Murphy and Ruddock, all 3 are big physical players with good football skills. the plastic paddy I don't know if you saw Brendan Fannings article about BOD? Basically says now Kidney is gone he is going to stay on for another year, makes me wonder in the Irish camp was there an anti Kidney group (led by BOD) and a pro Kidney group (led by Heaslip, a few of his long term guys DOC etc)?

Onto the Lions, Phillips is a busted flush against the Wallabies but he'll start the tour as the no1 scrummie. If he starts the test match the Wallabies have a huge advantage at 9 and it could hand the series to them.

 

[USARugger]

Genia has made Phillips his bitch so many times that even his nightmares are short and brown now.

If POM can tighten his game up and put on weight I can see the potential in him. As it is he plays too wide and loose to work properly in the chemistry of a traditional back-row setup. If he could on-ball I'd like to see him at 7 as his biggest strength seems to be an ability to zip around the park. If he can get that down 6. SOB 7. POM 8. Heaslip wouldn't be shabby at all, although I'm apprehensive about Heaslip. He's just looked flat to me for a while now, and I know this will sound ridiculous, but just looks defeated in his eyes when he's wearing the Irish kit.

What do you guys think about the Irish midfield post-BOD? I haven't been keeping up with the provincial rugby or much of home nation rugby recently so if I am wrong on anything please correct me. I wouldn't mind seeing Madigan played inside of Sexton (but of course would also then like to see Mads play 12 for Leinster but I don't realistically see that happening) with Cave at 13. I think that provides a good balance of straight/hard running, distribution, and flair.

 

[JSRF10]

What do you guys think about the Irish midfield post-BOD? I haven't been keeping up with the provincial rugby or much of home nation rugby recently so if I am wrong on anything please correct me. I wouldn't mind seeing Madigan played inside of Sexton (but of course would also then like to see Mads play 12 for Leinster but I don't realistically see that happening) with Cave at 13. I think that provides a good balance of straight/hard running, distribution, and flair.

Luke Marshall will be the Irish 12 for the next couple of years although Ulster have some promising centres coming through (Olding and Farrell) who could challenge him. From Leinster the next cab off the rank is Brendan Macken, he was superstar at schoolboy level but struggled with the step up to pro grade as he needed to develop his passing, awareness of team mates and defense (ie he was a ball hog!). He'll be Leinsters long term 13 in my eyes, has serious gas and is a great finisher. Out in the west their current full back Henshaw is 19 and is a very good prospect, has talked about moving inside to 13 but I'm not sure how this will pan out. Munster don't seem to have many good young centres coming through although I'm open to correction on this. To get to the point I suppose I see Irelands midfield over the next few years being:

2014: 10-Sexton, 12-Marshall, 13-BOD
2015: 10-Sexton/Madigan, 12-Marshall, 13-Bowe
2019: 10-Madigan, 12-Olding, 13-Macken

This is obviously assuming that there aren't any 14 year old BOD's out there! Not sure Cave has what it takes to be an international centre, always looks composed at European level but still not convinced. That said he should be given a chance. Bowe should move inside for a year or two once BOD goes, he has pace, physicality, runs good lines and is a decent footballer.

 

[USARugger]

You really think its worth moving Bowe inside? He's proven before he is one of the best wingers alive when fit so I'd be hesitant to risk off-centering (no pun intended) him. I think Cave would be a very good foil to a creative 12. He runs very hard and very straight lines and is a hardheaded defender. Might be a reflex to the attempts of Earls in 12/13 though. Some miserable stuff. I did forget entirely about Marshall though.

 

[JSRF10]

Given our dearth of talent in the 13 position, and that we're stacked with back 3 options I think Bowe at 13 enables us to:

a) Get our most dangerous players on the park in Zebo, Bowe and Gilroy
b) Gives us a much more physical midfield
3) Brings some experience into the midfield which we will have lost a shit load of by the time 2015 comes along. ROG, Dorce and BOD probably have about 400 caps between them!

Moving Bowe to 13 is a different case to Earls, Bowe is a much better footballer and a more intelligent (if thats the word) player. As he gets older he'll lose some gas, moving inside almost negates that, he's the perfect option until Macken is ready. Similar paths have been followed by Nonu, Fourie, Rougerie, Umaga. For me ability/physically wise Bowe is at least on a par with all of them so I'd think it could work out quite well for Ireland.

 

[KevinO]

Earls is much better on the wing and have wanted to see what Bowe can do at 13 for a while. He has a bit more physicality about him where Earls is a handy winger, Having Earls on the bench to cover 11-15 would be a good move for the next man in charge of Ireland.

 

[Italophile]

I've always liked the look of Darren Cave. He's got the skills and, better still, can find the time and space to use them. Love to see whether he can do it at the top level.

Tommy B has been sorely sorely missed.

 

[desmond Mc Cabe]

For what its worth Ireland will have at least 8 players travelling with the Lions and one that 8 Will captain the Lions.After last weekends game in which O`Connell won Man of the Match he must be a shoo in to be Captain and if not then O`Driscoll.Theres a good chance that Madigan will travel,having taken over from Sexton at ten while he was out injured and playing and kicking as good as any ten.The rest of the party Zeebo,Healy,Murray,Ryan,Best,Sexton,Bowe and one or two others.Heres hoping!

 

[GunnerDownUnder]

Jenkins, Healy, Grant
Hibbard, Youngs, Best
Jones, Cole
Launchbury, Evans, Jones, Ryan, O'Connell
Jones, Wood
Warburton, Tipuric, Robshaw
Faletau, Beattie
Phillips, Youngs, Laidlaw
Farrell, Sexton
North, Visser
Barritt, Tuilagi, BOD, Roberts
Cuthbert, Maitland
Halfpenny, Hogg

 

[JSRF10]

Jenkins, Healy, Grant
Hibbard, Youngs, Best
Jones, Cole
Launchbury, Evans, Jones, Ryan, O'Connell
Jones, Wood
Warburton, Tipuric, Robshaw
Faletau, Beattie
Phillips, Youngs, Laidlaw
Farrell, Sexton
North, Visser
Barritt, Tuilagi, BOD, Roberts
Cuthbert, Maitland
Halfpenny, Hogg

I'd agree with majority of your squad, as it stands, however Beattie won't be picked as Montepellier are in the Top14 playoffs (barring massive loss of form) and the Fatman said he won't pick anyone involved, which could also rule out Jenkins unless he walks out on Toulon. At this stage I'd be suprised if Robshaw and Wood went, Robshaw has been massively found out and well TBF Wood just isn't in good form. Also Lydiate will travel ahead of Mr Average Ryan Jones. I'd wager Tommy Bowe and Zebo (Gatland has named check both of these blokes), if they can hit some form will go ahead of Visser and Maitland. There is also room for another utility back, possibly Rob Kearney.

Who is your tip for el captaino GunnerDownUnder?