Kurtley Beale

[Train Without a Station]

Was there any issues with here at the Reds to your knowledge Reg? Certainly seems unlikely.

 

[Braveheart81]

To summarize developments in people's thinking singe Robinson's last article:
KB (Kurtley Beale) to go.
LINK to go.
Patston to stay.

I would think the only way Patston could survive was in a role away from the team. It sounds like that relationship is terminal and it would be unlikely a new coach would want the same person in the same seemingly unusual role.

KB (Kurtley Beale) is already gone and surely Link has to be sacked. Australian rugby will never have the professional culture it needs if the coach is treating the team like his personal fiefdom.

 

[Train Without a Station]

It wouldn't surprise me if her role is to be a bit of a scapegoat for Link. They have to work on tight budgets, etc. Gives the playing group somebody to resent who they aren't expected to lift for if they can blame Patson for the accommodation, etc.

 

[Lorenzo]

Do people really think Link will go over this? I don't.

 

[Man on the hill]

Personally? I have heard plenty of rumours and can not honestly substantiate much of it. All I know is I am fed up with it all and think we need change quickly. I suspect at least two of the three involved will be gone.

Thanks - I'm guessing that the rumours you have heard have been aired in this thread and are generally unflattering to Link & Di?

I think we are all pissed off that the chatter is on stuff other than how well the game is being played.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

How this whole sorry saga is handled could be the making or breaking of The Pulveriser, and/or the ARU Board, especially if the Integrity Unit's investigation reveals that Link was involved much earlier than has been announced so far.

With a District Court judge now presiding over things, one can hope that the parties involved treat it a little more seriously than they appear to have done so far.

So far it's almost like the 6th Grade Schoolteacher has found the boys at the back of the classroom conducting an impromptu anatomy lesson based around a Fyshwick publication with a lot of pictures in it that one of them has acquired somehow.

"Give that to me now!"

"You can't take that, Miss. My brother gave it to me, Miss"

"I don't care who's it is. This is going into the rubbish bin where it belongs. Now all of you boys need to get back to doing your Maths. And you Pfitzner.... Stop looking out the window at the other class playing rugby on the oval"

 

[Muglair]

Is the apparent divide in the thread because some read the rumours on here and discard them while others hear them through their own trusted networks? As RR says, none of us are in a position to actually know the truth, you just have to weigh up the reliability of your network and consider what makes sense.

MOTH, I wish the rugby was being played well. Then we all wouldn't be in formerflanker's stage 4; Depression. Unless you are talking about SA and NZ?

If all this story wasn't true then perhaps we would have been playing well, there would be nothing to see here and the thread would have died a just and natural death on page #1.

 

[Train Without a Station]

The problem is that the money isn't in the game and we struggle to attract quality management. So your solution is to attempt to get people to volunteer to do it?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

With all the cronyism that comes with it, I would have thought that the last thing we need is more well meaning amateurs in charge of Australian Rugby.

In many respects, that is how we got here in the first place.

 

[Braveheart81]

Maybe not particularly NSW/Qld stuff, but from my viewing there has been a common thread running though posts from Tahs' fans supporting Beale and wanting him to remain at the Tahs next year even if he is dropped from the Wallabies. Now the main theme seems to have changes to finger pointing at Link to deflect the criticism of Beale.

I think there's been a pretty substantial shift in opinion since the revelations at 4pm yesterday about the Whatsapp part of the saga. I am certainly convinced now that Beale is gone whereas previously I had support for him and thought he could probably survive this.

Some of the diverting attention to Link at least from my perspective is that I think the Beale part is largely over. Sure there's going to be a disciplinary hearing etc. but I think he's a hundred to one shot to still be playing rugby in Australia.

 

[Pfitzy]

Providing that Patson was separate from any selection and performance parts of the Wallabies, the players need to seriously shut the fuck up and worry about doing their own jobs well. If Kurtley for example wants to critique her performance, he should worry about fucking learning to tackle adequately.

What you're saying is fine as long as her presence isn't creating issues, and the players feel that she is adequately doing her job. If they're not, they are well within their rights to approach the head honcho (which is the coach, given we apparently don't have a Team Manager) and ask WTF?

If the players felt her presence created undue issues or conflicts of interest, then they're perfectly within their rights to question it.

If the coach can't adequately explain her presence, actions, or role, then he's not doing his fucking job.

 

[Pfitzy]

PARTICULARLY as, it would seem, he asked for her by name when he moved from the Reds to ARU.

 

[p.Tah]

Now that he has left, I think the ARU should blame Andrew Fagan and then everyone can keep their job.

No I don't really mean that. He's a nice guy and I like Alana Smith too

 

[Bowside]

Is it possible that the text affair was dealt with by senior players and Patson with the understanding that it was too trivial a matter for a player's career being jeopardized so they didn't take it any further? Or possibly they were also involved, hence, not wanting it to get further.

Makes sense that the players have sided with Kurtley and fought to keep him there. This coming out (which it eventually did), looks very bad on them too.

Which leads me to the first issue. Kurtley. How much of a fucking moron (and a disruptive one at that) is this bloke?

How has he formed a strong opinion of Di Patson in June having never dealt with her before then? She may be the biggest incompetent fuckwit anybody has ever come across. Yet Reds players have dealt with her since 2011 and test players since August 2013 yet suddenly Kurtley is involved and issues arise?

Which leads me back further and the discontent regarding Patson's role. I'm sorry, but unless she is in a performance or selection role within the environment, then the players should just fucking worry about their own jobs. This apparent and alleged sense of entitlement is exactly what's wrong with Australian rugby.

Her role seems to be a logistical and HR hybrid on the road. What exactly is she doing? Setting the itinerary based on what the coaching staff tell her they need and booking accommodation and transport. What else exactly can she be doing? Perhaps assisting in linking media with players as requested. Now her role has encompassed disciplinary matters which one can only assume is in a HR style manner. If the players have an issue with this, perhaps they shouldn't be playing a sport where their team is also a large organisation too. Because that's how things work.

Liken this to the entertainment industry. How would things go if the actors on a poorly rated TV show had issues with the role of a Producer's assistant or somebody who actually had nothing to do with the actual filming and direction of the show?

Providing that Patson was separate from any selection and performance parts of the Wallabies, the players need to seriously shut the fuck up and worry about doing their own jobs well. If Kurtley for example wants to critique her performance, he should worry about fucking learning to tackle adequately.

I think to insinuate that Patston had nothing to do with the performance of the team is totally incorrect. She is a senior staff member, who travels with the team and manages a lot of their day to day. In a successful environment there is no option but for her to have the full respect of the dressing room.

In sport, like in a lot of other fields, you have to win people's respect. She started in mid 2013:
- was complained about by 'senior wallabies' by the end of 2013
- was being ridiculed behind her back Beale and potentially others by mid 2014
- had an public argument with Beale by the end of her first tour with the team, with numerous players making statements of support for Beale.

Successful sporting environments are characterised by having quality people at every level, with huge mutual respect. The players have to buy into the team discourse.

Beale obviously wasn't buying into the discourse and showing mutual respect so the ARU have got rid of him. But they have to also address the reason he wasn't buying into the team discourse and the fact that there is at least 20 blokes at the coal face willing to stick up for Beale suggests he isn't the only problem in this team.

The players aren't fools. At some point in their lives they all would have been involved in a successful sporting program and they would all know what it takes to make one work. Hence why when they see a problem they report it, which is what we are led to believe senior wallabies did in 2013.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Pfitzy, is her role just to do the dirty work though? Which is why the players dislike her.

At Melbourne Uni in 2013 we had an S & C coach who was an absolute c*** (Shane may. Was previously with ballymore tornadoes and norths devils).

Was Shane a c*** of a bloke? A little. But most of what he did was be the no nonsense figure for all the coaches. He did all the abrasive stuff on behalf of the coach which enabled the coach to maintain he tight bond with the players.

For all we know, Patson is the Scrooge, the party pooper, etc to take the hate of the players instead of Link, which is why the players dislike her.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Bowside, by "performance" I mean the actual rugby/athletic aspect. She's not involved in training, etc

 

[Bowside]

The players shouldn't hate the person doing the dirty work, they should respect the role she plays in the team, and understand why those decisions need to be made.

 

[Braveheart81]

It sounds like there was a huge shift in the way things operated under McKenzie as Patston's role increased.

The whole gatekeeper situation referred to in the Georgina Robinson article would have seemed highly unusual to a team that had already been coached by McKenzie for a few months at the Wallabies and for many of them at the Tahs or Reds before that.

 

[Train Without a Station]

The players shouldn't hate the person doing the dirty work, they should respect the role she plays in the team, and understand why those decisions need to be made.

Plenty of employees hate managers who are doing nothing more than the role required.

 

[Train Without a Station]

It sounds like there was a huge shift in the way things operated under McKenzie as Patston's role increased.

The whole gatekeeper situation referred to in the Georgina Robinson article would have seemed highly unusual to a team that had already been coached by McKenzie for a few months at the Wallabies and for many of them at the Tahs or Reds before that.

Fair summation