Karmichael Hunt Stuff

[Sully]

Not sure what point I'm making, cos I'm not suggesting legalising cocaine,nor prohibition of alcohol.

But the long term effects (apart from weight loss) look very similar to those of alcohol (without the violence)

If someone invented alcohol today it would never get approved. It's just too dangerous.

 

[dru]

I remain outraged by the whole Quade scenario, eyes just glaze Red as I think about it.

BUT putting blinkers on, and thinking about Thorn's options:- Next year is a shit sandwich anyway. The lack of home games in the first couple of months leads to a likely restrained result, irrespective of everything else. Chuck in these issues (no Quade no KHunt no/little incoming force, rooky coaching, no evidence of administration ability) and the risk just increases.

He (Brad) has made his bed and should now sleep in it. Increase the quantity of u20 call ups rather than recalling Quade. Let it be a building year - just for something different for the fans. [rolls eyes]

Unless the whole Quade thing was simply a ruse or odd ball tactic of some kind. In which case, whatever was expected to be achieved should be accelerated.

Personally my enthusiasm for the Reds hit bottom, then started mining, a long time ago. Including another youngster in the run on squad will have little statistical input on my feelings.

But if the youngsters can be given a chance and do respond, and if "Brad the Great" matches the crazy expectations of some of his supporters - well, 2011 came from this sort of shit. I may be completely despondent, but I wont stop watching and enthusiasm may ultimately follow success.

I have said it many times over the years since the departure of Link, but here goes again. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to be proven an idiot in my assessment of the Reds.

 

[TOCC]

Agree dru, it’s hard not to be very frustrated about the Hunt ordeal, the selfish actions of an individual which harm rugby in the whole state


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[fatprop]

I don’t understand that as luck - do you mean it’s lucky for the game’s reputation they don’t get caught? Presumably it’s illegal for a reason it must have some detrimental consequences for human health.

Recreational drug taking is rife in Aus, lines are being done everywhere from mother's luncheons to the toilets at all the club's. The reality is that wealth makes it generally acceptable. Hold down a job, don't steal to fund it and most don't care what you do, there are functioning heroin addicts everywhere, let alone a recreational coke users or those who have a spliff every so often in the privacy of their own homes

Health? Relatively no worse than booze

Hunt was caught again and will be gone in all likelihood, we can be all sanctimonious, but to me, his use is a reflection of modern society and should be an employment issue not a legal one.

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[Inside Shoulder]

Recreational drug taking is rife in Aus, lines are being done everywhere from mother's luncheons to the toilets at all the club's. The reality is that wealth makes it generally acceptable. Hold down a job, don't steal to fund it and most don't care what you do, there are functioning heroin addicts everywhere, let alone a recreational coke users or those who have a spliff every so often in the privacy of their own homes

Health? Relatively no worse than booze

Hunt was caught again and will be gone in all likelihood, we can be all sanctimonious, but to me, his use is a reflection of modern society and should be an employment issue not a legal one.

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When it comes to the crunch employment issues turn into legal issues.
I don’t have personal experience of fully functioning addicts - my experience is that whether the drug is legal or not, addiction reduces function below full. Booze too.
It transpires that Cocaine has long term consequences for health despite its somewhat different community perception.
Those are two good reasons why taking it is both a legal and an employment issue.

 

[Rugrat]

So did the sports drug testers turn up at KHunts house on Sunday? If sport in this country is serious about dealing with drugs thats what should have occurred. No need then to worry about circumstances and legal rulings. Test and be dealt with under international sports rulings. If no testing occurred more questions than answers I'm afraid.

 

[wamberal]

Hunt was caught again and will be gone in all likelihood, we can be all sanctimonious, but to me, his use is a reflection of modern society and should be an employment issue not a legal one.

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It is also a health issue. If he was using, or if he was in the company of somebody who was using, he needs therapy of sort kind, not incarceration, and not condemnation.


That is not to say that his career should not be over. But if he was in his teens, I would be saying, get yourself straight, join AA (because I am pretty sure that excessive us of alcohol is part of the problem), be willing to be tested at random, over and above the normal rules and regulations, and then come back and play.


But he is now too old to go through all those hoops. What a waste. There goes next season for the Wobbs.

 

[Brumby Runner]

A bit over the top with that last comment Wamb. Hunt was quite unimpressive in all of his later appearances with the Wallabies in 2017. He will not be missed at all on that form.

 

[wamberal]

A bit over the top with that last comment Wamb. Hunt was quite unimpressive in all of his later appearances with the Wallabies in 2017. He will not be missed at all on that form.

Will probably never know. But he is tough, can defend, can play in a number of backline positions, and has a football brain. At his best he is a lot better than most of our utility players. He would have been my choice at 12. But he can cover positions like fly half.


If Foley breaks, who steps up?

 

[Aussie D]

Will probably never know. But he is tough, can defend, can play in a number of backline positions, and has a football brain. At his best he is a lot better than most of our utility players. He would have been my choice at 12. But he can cover positions like fly half.


If Foley breaks, who steps up?

you are on the Reds thread. Quade of course, even if he is only playing premier rugby.

 

[Gnostic]

I find it laughable that in the week that the statistics showing Drug Drivers are involved in more serious motor vehicle accidents including fatal accidents are released we have the "its a health issue" brigade trotting out the tired old lines about not criminalising the use drugs.

As the prevalence of drug use has risen, and the strength and long term effects have risen so have the deaths and injuries of people at the hands of the users, either by intention of action or not.

I have zero tolerance, and as an employer people know what the action will be, (I have no choice to give the first warning second chance, but there is no third chance). So I don't care one wit for Hunt or his situation.

 

[TOCC]

I won’t get involved in the legality argument, what I will say is that I’ve seen first hand the effects of cocaine on an athlete, and any suggestion that it doesn’t impact on performance is utter crap.


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[wamberal]

I have zero tolerance, and as an employer people know what the action will be, (I have no choice to give the first warning second chance, but there is no third chance). So I don't care one wit for Hunt or his situation.

And if, heaven forfend, your son or daughter became addicted, would you care one whit for them?


Does "zero tolerance" extend to your own family? Your friends?

 

[cyclopath]

I won’t get involved in the legality argument, what I will say is that I’ve seen first hand the effects of cocaine on an athlete, and any suggestion that it doesn’t impact on performance is utter crap.


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In isolation, the drug itself is quickly metabolised and the effects are fairly short-acting. Of course, individual experiences will differ, but there is a good reason why its use is so prevalent among performance athletes - for most, the effects go quickly and they get back to training / playing quickly enough. But it is seldom used in isolation - often with alcohol in reasonable quantity which actually causes significant changes in the metabolic process, and different metabolites are detectable in blood and urine. Some of these are thought to be more damaging longer term. Quite a few studies have shown a pretty short term of impairment with it alone, especially when not cut with all sorts of other substances. But it is usually cut with other stuff to boost the profit margins. So, its a complex issue in many ways. I don't question your experience at all, but I think there is a spectrum. I'm not defending its use - it is illegal, but it is not necessarily analogous to other drugs like alcohol, cannabis etc.........

 

[Gnostic]

And if, heaven forfend, your son or daughter became addicted, would you care one whit for them?


Does "zero tolerance" extend to your own family? Your friends?

Yes it does. And Yes it has, AND I have personally dealt with the deaths and injuries caused by the users. My children know intimately the risks and costs associated with drug use, seeing family members first hand and at their ages if they were to be susceptible to the use of such substances they would have started by now, and whilst I would care for them and assist them to get help they also know from experience of the family that ultimate responsibility resides with the user and there is an expiry on assistance for the sake of the rest of the family.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

And if, heaven forfend, your son or daughter became addicted, would you care one whit for them?


Does "zero tolerance" extend to your own family? Your friends?

Quite a different question, as you well know. What we forgive our flesh and blood is not the test of what we forgive the rest of humanity. The reasons he deserves to be hung out to dry include: his asserted contrition the first time; his privileged but unearned position in oz rugby, and; the faith shown in his contrition and his potential.

 

[TOCC]

Edit

 

[half]

Do we really need this "ethics of drugs" discussion swallowing the Reds thread?

Yes the reason is obvious . TOCC made a spelling mistake in the title of the first thread on the topic. It is impossible to fix so the obvious place to put it is in the Reds thread. To question the wisdom of this is wrong because those making the decisions do not wish to be lectured and secondly if you do question this wisdom you show yourself to be a smartarse, because its so obvious once the spelling mistake could not be fixed that the Reds thread was / is the perfect spot. Actually its quite smart as we can reduce the thread down to five, four Super Teams and the Wols ...

 

[half]

Well Mr Hunt has done a very stupid thing. Many on this forum seem to want to see him burnt at the stake.

Tis really sad as I see it, stupid in the extreme yep, illegal yep , all that and much more, but that does not change how sad this is.

A talented young man seems to be losing his struggle against addiction; must be so sad and heart breaking for those that love him and care for him.

The profile of an addict, is generally defined as a person that, can’t control where and when, and becomes oblivious of the consequences.

Many senior rugby folk have recognised his leadership abilities and he has been in a number of leadership positions, meaning as I see that he must come across as quite a decent person.

Is drug use is an illness or a crime for what seems to me to be an addict

Making mistakes as a high profile person is always difficult, as a sportsman making a mistake like this ruins your career as well as many other things.

His rugby career is over, I hope he can get on with his life and recover, I hope his life does not spiral out of control from this insistent.

I sincerely wish him well, as I am in no position to judge him.

 

[southsider]

Is it really an addiction though? I think that word gets thrown around far too easy these days, especially when it comes to drugs.

I think KHunt, like ALOT of Australian male sports stars, is just plain fucking stupid. I know I’m generalising here but I’ve worked across 3/4 football codes in Australia and had varying interactions with stars from each in a semi regular basis as well as having some for friends, the main theme across all the codes...these guys are fucking stupid.

Obviously there are multiple exceptions to the rule but I don’t think the automatic thought should be to jump to addiction