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John O'Neil Must Have Been Misquoted

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Bowside

Peter Johnson (47)
what do you mean by that?

I cant answer for athilnaur, but I have similar feelings so i might have a crack. I preface this by saying that I haven't been around as long as some on here so I may be a bit of the mark, but in my mind:

Australia rugby, for all its failings, has its own unique and sacred wallabies culture built on the performances of many great former players over the past 100 plus years. In my mind austrlian rugby is about playing smart rugby, with emphasis on effective breakdown play and creative running rugby. There is also an element of rising to the challenges as they arise, never giving up, losing hope or conceding that the game is 'unwinable' or 'lost'. Most of all I think it is about putting in a team performance that is more than the sum of the players individual talent.

If one was to take the game on the weekend as an example, the wallabies didn't play smart rugby, they didn't win the contest at the breakdown and they didn't run when they needed to. Furthermore, they didn't rise to the challenge or adapt to the game, and they certainly didn't put in a performance that was more than the sum of the player individual talent.

That is what hurts most about this loss, the way in which it played out was a far cry from the principals that the jersey is built upon.
 

Bruce Ross

Ken Catchpole (46)
Deans will always pick the younger player. As I've said before, he has a greater youth fetish than Alan Jones.

I missed where you said it before, but it's a great line, Scarfie.

The whole point of all that "development" and "learning" is that by the time the RWC comes around we're supposed to have a super-drilled, battle-hardened troupe. Manifestly, we don't. What was it all for? Some tomorrow that is yet to come, like a few posters are saying. "Steady as she goes, we're getting there. We're building depth, we're learning". Give me a break!

I was brought up in a religion obsessed with the idea of an imminent Second Coming. It didn't happen. I have an eerie feeling of deja vu.
 

Riptide

Dave Cowper (27)
Irrespective of how far the Wallabies go in the comp, I feel that O’Neill will quickly turn his attention to ensuring that the Lions Tour in 2 yrs time is a financial success which he probably regards as being the tru measure of his legacy to Australian rugby (leaving with the till filled, and ARU with a nice surplus). Deans will be part of those plans. He'll survive even a Quarter Final elimination.

I fear there is something uncannily reminiscent in how this Wallaby team is built with the other "journey" in which Deans was involved, namely the 2003 AB campaign. There is another dazzling attacking talent at 10 who is flakey under pressure, another experienced midfield veteran jettisoned, and there is also a soft underbelly despite all talk of basics. This Wallaby team found itself being managed out of the game by a hard-working, physically committed Irish team that hasn’t won a game in the SH since 1979 and that also lost it’s preferred hooker and No.7 in the lead-up to the tournament and game (and doesn’t have a bona fide Test 7 in its squad either). Ireland could play Australia 10 times, and we’d expect that Aus would win 8 or 9 of them in any conditions.

The Wallabies may not always have had the greatest front 5 talent gracing rugby fields, but they have always maximized their playing talent by playing smart tactical rugby and exploiting the weaknesses of the opposition. We didn’t see that against Ireland. Tactically they were just dumb and then Horwill inexplicably elects not to take the 3 pts with several minutes on the clock when the tiring Irish (who had not replaced a single member of their exhausted pack at that point) would have had to kick the ball straight back to the Wallabies from the re-start. This Wallaby side plays great rugby running downhill, but it's all uphill from here.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Irrespective of how far the Wallabies go in the comp, I feel that O’Neill will quickly turn his attention to ensuring that the Lions Tour in 2 yrs time is a financial success which he probably regards as being the tru measure of his legacy to Australian rugby (leaving with the till filled, and ARU with a nice surplus). Deans will be part of those plans. He'll survive even a Quarter Final elimination.

I fear there is something uncannily reminiscent in how this Wallaby team is built with the other "journey" in which Deans was involved, namely the 2003 AB campaign. There is another dazzling attacking talent at 10 who is flakey under pressure, another experienced midfield veteran jettisoned, and there is also a soft underbelly despite all talk of basics. This Wallaby team found itself being managed out of the game by a hard-working, physically committed Irish team that hasn’t won a game in the SH since 1979 and that also lost it’s preferred hooker and No.7 in the lead-up to the tournament and game (and doesn’t have a bona fide Test 7 in its squad either). Ireland could play Australia 10 times, and we’d expect that Aus would win 8 or 9 of them in any conditions.

The Wallabies may not always have had the greatest front 5 talent gracing rugby fields, but they have always maximized their playing talent by playing smart tactical rugby and exploiting the weaknesses of the opposition. We didn’t see that against Ireland. Tactically they were just dumb and then Horwill inexplicably elects not to take the 3 pts with several minutes on the clock when the tiring Irish (who had not replaced a single member of their exhausted pack at that point) would have had to kick the ball straight back to the Wallabies from the re-start. This Wallaby side plays great rugby running downhill, but it's all uphill from here.

I had the same feeling about the similarities between Carlos Spencer and QC (Quade Cooper). But when you think about it Deans choices over here are more limited than over there. I read where Carter used to watch replays of ABs games when he was a kid and his cousins were playing board games and things: somehow I dont think any of the Australians have had that sort of focus for so long....maybe they are such gifted athletes that, until now, its all been too easy.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
I missed where you said it before, but it's a great line, Scarfie.



I was brought up in a religion obsessed with the idea of an imminent Second Coming. It didn't happen. I have an eerie feeling of deja vu.

Im struggling with the infinite endlessness of deja vu in relation to something that never happened...unfortunately, whatever it means, I have the same feeling
 

Iluvmyfooty

Phil Hardcastle (33)
Well it didn't take much for the "get rid of Deans" brigade to turn up. I seem to recall not more than a week or so ago that this side was well prepared for a strong tilt at the WC and Robbie had done a wonderful job of developing a lot of depth in the squad, scrum was strong and we were justifably the No. 2 rated team in the world.

Oh well lets see how it pans out
 

Swarley

Bob Loudon (25)
This current AB's side are a great side. They've pulled off so many come from behind Bledisloe victories it's ridiculous. It's the same every home test- we'll be 15 ahead, then bang! A try and a bucket load of penalties put them in front with only 5 to go.
Australia, however... well- Ireland 2009, Scotland 2009, Samoa 2011, England 2010, New Zealand 2010 (Giteau missed 12 points in kicks)- need I say more?
 
W

What2040

Guest
Damn, said "Scarf out" then still here.

Just like Sharpe vs Simmons, Deans will always pick the younger player. As I've said before, he has a greater youth fetish than Alan Jones. The whole point of all that "development" and "learning" is that by the time the RWC comes around we're supposed to have a super-drilled, battle-hardened troupe. Manifestly, we don't. What was it all for? Some tomorrow that is yet to come, like a few posters are saying. "Steady as she goes, we're getting there. We're building depth, we're learning". Give me a break!

Scarf so out.

Jeez Scarfie,
Bit of a rough useage of the words YOUTH FETISH when comparing Dingo and Jones
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Irrespective of how far the Wallabies go in the comp, I feel that O'Neill will quickly turn his attention to ensuring that the Lions Tour in 2 yrs time is a financial success which he probably regards as being the tru measure of his legacy to Australian rugby (leaving with the till filled, and ARU with a nice surplus). Deans will be part of those plans. He'll survive even a Quarter Final elimination.....

Interesting. The 2013 Lions tour will only be a reliable financial success if the Wallabies from now until early 2013 actually achieve something worthwhile in the sports public's, especially the football public's, eyes. Wallaby-related gross $ income and average gate attendances have been in largely consistent decline since 2004. Much of financial and publicity and game-enthusiam success of of the Wallabies in the crucial 1999-2003 period was squandered thereafter as the wrong type of coaching dominated, the Wallabies' winning strengths faltered, the debacle of RWC 2007, and, just as important, other football codes in this period became better and better managed and worked out how to grow their national footprints and fan bases far better than the ever-insular and self-contented world of Aus rugby, exemplified by a complacent and unimaginative ARU Board gaining its succour from past glories. In large part, this background is the reason why there is so much ARU-driven 'cost cutting' in the code currently; the total income base is fragile and declining, and rugby's % market share v other codes is weakening (as of 2010).

This background is precisely why the Reds' 2011 S15 success was such a crucial, just-in-time economic and fan-rebuilding development for the code as a whole. And why real success at the RWC 2011 was of equal potential importance, the code here desperately needed big-stage positives attracting national media interest and broad fan base recovery. If the Wallabies post 2007 had started knocking BCs and 3N's and Englands over a la much of the golden '90s, that would have had a major impact on fan base and $ income rebuilding, but, despite the ARU's fervent predictions, this did not occur and the Wallabies in 2011 continue to defy the best aspirations of their fans for a team that can be relied up to win way more, and more consistently, than it loses. We beat the ABs in Brisbane; within weeks, we collapse in a crucial game v Ireland.

So, as I have said many times here, the (commercial) viability of the Wallaby 'brand' is delicately poised at this time. Winning the RWC 2011 would be a massive boost, getting into the Final would be highly valuable. Anything less, the business value declines significantly. JO'N knows this. Then there's the major related issue of what kind of team leaves the RWC and enters 2012 and how well it performs in 2012 in BC and 4N terms (back to 'real' 3/4Ns vs 2011's mostly faux version). Looking at the players in this WC that will be Lions candidates, the 2013 Lions have the potential to be quite formidable, and if we extrapolate from what we see of our Wallabies today we could easily lose the Lions series. If the chronic issues of general attitudinal inconsistency, forwards weaknesses, no game plans but 'attack with the Xs', average kicking capability, scrum a relative lottery and subject to 'the right referee', etc continue together with (or because of) ordinary coaching and endless 'development and learning processes' excuses, I would predict that 2012 will simply continue the trend line of decline in fan support and general Wallaby-related income. A Lions tour will always drive single year income up, but if the Wallabies enter 2013 with a long trail of mediocrity (and, perhaps, a poor RWC outcome from 2011), 2013 will certainly not be a 'coffer filling windfall', it will all be a great deal less valuable than the 2001 version.

By 2013, JO'N (now extended in contract by the ARU with limited explanation) will have been ARU CEO for approx 14 years out of an 18 year span. By all contemporary standards of good executive governance, this is an exceptionally long period for one person to dominate an organisation as CEO, despite their qualities. Deans (reappointed on the alleged basis of how well he had developed the Wallabies to early 2011) will be in his 6th year as Wallaby coach. Let us fans hope and pray that these extraordinary indentured tenures deliver results in late 2011 and into 2012 far superior to those achieved in the previous recent periods. If not, it's no exaggeration to state that rugby in Australia could enter a period of genuine commercial peril where a negative 'tipping point' of increasingly weak gross income and fan base decline could see the code irrevocably damaged.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
so crowds and corporate support improve when the team is winning? Really?who would have thought..
But I do agree it that the RD re signing should have been handled differently.
IMO the Board is empowered to reappoint JON,without yours or my feedback.
BTW I always thought 3N games were just about sellouts year in year out? Happy to be corrected tho.,
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
Irrespective of how far the Wallabies go in the comp, I feel that O’Neill will quickly turn his attention to ensuring that the Lions Tour in 2 yrs time is a financial success which he probably regards as being the tru measure of his legacy to Australian rugby (leaving with the till filled, and ARU with a nice surplus).

What, again? Mind you, I'm not complaining.
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
RedsHappy, would you agree that there should be a focus to promote Rugby Union as a brand as opposed to simply promoting the Wallabies brand?

I think the majority of the untapped markets are uneducated in the basic rules and principles of Rugby Union; all they hear is results, the odd player name and leaguies harping on about kickfests.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
so crowds and corporate support improve when the team is winning? Really?who would have thought..
But I do agree it that the RD re signing should have been handled differently.
IMO the Board is empowered to reappoint JON,without yours or my feedback.
BTW I always thought 3N games were just about sellouts year in year out? Happy to be corrected tho.,

The problem is that the ARU is not like a public company. A whole lot of people have invested blood sweat and tears in them over decades. to whom is the board of the ARU answerable? technically: no one; practically to every one who has any investment in the game.
Assuming he does leave the ARU with a surplus what will be done with it? Will they go out and sign the next generation Matt rogers, Wendy Sailor or Lote.....and what of the lack of lighting at suburban grounds, the fact that club rugby is dead or dying....these are the true shareholders in the game - they are the ones who created the aspirational demographic from 1861 to 1995 on which the Wallabies trade and which give JON the ability to attract the money: when will they get the return on their capital?
 
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