Jim Williams BONED

[disco]

There is nothing wrong with the cattle up front, when Foley was the forwards coach in 2008 we had a good scrum, lineout & restart. As soon as Williams took over we'd have problems with restarts one week the next week that was fixed & the lineout would be a mess & after Foley gets respect for our scrum by dismantling the Boks, Poms & Irish it returned to powder puff.

We've got the cattle all over the park I wouldn't swap any of these blokes Benn Robinson, Stephen Moore, TPN, James Horwill, David Pocock, Will Genia, Kurtley Beale, James O'Conner & Digby Ioane with any other player in their position sure there is other players as good as them.

Williams has to go but so does Deans the ARU should have done a complete cleanout after the Welsh match.

 

[qwerty51]

There's plenty wrong with the cattle up front. Notice how you didn't mention and 6 and 8. Those are the 2 positions the ABs have over us, not just slightly either, they're miles ahead of us there.

 

[disco]

Well I never said we had the depth of the AB's but who does? I'm pretty sure we have a lot more across the board than Ireland & Samoa yet they wiped the floor with us because once our good players get into camp with Deans & co their usually just confused come game time.

The Reds probably don't have the same amount as class across the board as the Blues let alone the Crusaders yet they still managed to beat them both twice.

 

[wamberal]

Worse than taking Phipps to a world cup?

Worse than Wendell Sailor?

Who is/was ahead of Phipps?


Sailor was in the 2003 RWC final starting XV. Who would you have picked ahead of him?

 

[qwerty51]

Well I never said we had the depth of the AB's but who does? I'm pretty sure we have a lot more across the board than Ireland & Samoa yet they wiped the floor with us because once our good players get into camp with Deans & co their usually just confused come game time.

The Reds probably don't have the same amount as class across the board as the Blues let alone the Crusaders yet they still managed to beat them both twice.

I'm not talking about depth but the key positions in the forward where we are severally lacking. 6 & 8. SA and NZ kill us there in that department and IMO it's why we lose games. You only have to look at the TNs victory to see why we won, no Kaino and Read went off after 15 or so minutes. Ireland have a better 6 & 8 than us and that's why they won, they even had a better 7 during that game.

The Reds situation would be completely different in the Crusaders finished ahead of them on the ladder.

 

[Bowside]

I still dont think deans understands australian rugby.

How are you supposed to beat (or even just give them a run for their money) the all blacks playing 'all blacks lite'. The Wallabies needed to be a step ahead tactically, playing to their strengths and making the most of what they had. That wasnt done and as far as im concerned 4 years more than enough for him.

 

[emuarse]

@ Swat. Phipps' choice was political - placating the Rebels. But certainly there could have been better choices in the squad.
I don't think he was necessarily Deans' choice.
But the forwards did let the backs down in a number of games in the lead up to the WC, and indeed in some of the WC games.
So Williams had that area of responsibility directly - and who knows, maybe he does'nt want to stay on. He might have an alternative offer as a head coach elsewhere...hmmm.

 

[Bowside]

I dont think Phipps choice was at all political. The ARU had never picked a token rebel before why would they suddenly feel the need to pick one for the world cup.

I think deans just didn't rate Robinson and Hodgeson over McCalman.

 

[Newter]

There is nothing wrong with the cattle up front, when Foley was the forwards coach in 2008 we had a good scrum, lineout & restart. As soon as Williams took over we'd have problems with restarts one week the next week that was fixed & the lineout would be a mess & after Foley gets respect for our scrum by dismantling the Boks, Poms & Irish it returned to powder puff.

We've got the cattle all over the park I wouldn't swap any of these blokes Benn Robinson, Stephen Moore, TPN, James Horwill, David Pocock, Will Genia, Kurtley Beale, James O'Conner & Digby Ioane with any other player in their position sure there is other players as good as them.

Williams has to go but so does Deans the ARU should have done a complete cleanout after the Welsh match.

In 2008 we also had a fully fit pack. Benn Robinson, Dan Vickerman...even Wycliff Palu was starting games! Let's not forget that Michael Foley coached the forward pack which was blown off the field by a shite England team at RWC07.

I'm not saying Foley is a weak forwards coach. But he can't work miracles with weak players, and neither can Jim Williams.

 

[Newter]

I still dont think deans understands australian rugby.

How are you supposed to beat (or even just give them a run for their money) the all blacks playing 'all blacks lite'. The Wallabies needed to be a step ahead tactically, playing to their strengths and making the most of what they had. That wasnt done and as far as im concerned 4 years more than enough for him.

This is nonsense. The Wallabies were never playing "All Blacks lite". The All Blacks game was based on dominant defence and kicking, and the occasional pick and drive surge - that was their big go-to tactic. The Wallabies plan, as far as I saw at the World Cup, was adventurous high-risk ball-playing looking for the big linebreak.

Theirs worked better than ours, but to say we were the same is drivel.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

This is the issue for me. Wo cares if none of the Aus line up would make the All Blacks team. Then your second paragraph seems to suggest utter defeat, we were more innovative and professional for a while? Shouldn't it be the goal to always be more innovative and professional. Honestly, were trying to be like the All Blacks instead of looking at the strengths and talents we have in this country and building to it.

I look forward to super rugby these days more Than I do internationals as I feel at least there we are trying rather than the imposter act we have going on at international level.

You had me...until you mentioned your preference for S15.
But you're right otherwise: we used to out think the ABs, pick our strengths and play to them. Now we play a type of world consensus game: i.e. this is the best way to play the game so let's all play it this way.
I'm not saying that I know what our relative strengths are by the way.
Antimony: union does not get the best cattle because it competes with league (in particular). Unless we broaden the junior base and stop relying on a few elite private schools to produce the nucleus of the team we'll never reliably produce better individuals. Thats why out thinking them is the only chance we have.
and let's face we're no going to out think the kiwis with a kiwi coach!

 

[Inside Shoulder]

This is nonsense. The Wallabies were never playing "All Blacks lite". The All Blacks game was based on dominant defence and kicking, and the occasional pick and drive surge - that was their big go-to tactic. The Wallabies plan, as far as I saw at the World Cup, was adventurous high-risk ball-playing looking for the big linebreak.

Theirs worked better than ours, but to say we were the same is drivel.

havent you forgotten about all our aimless kicking between the miracle balls that were expected to secure the future for Australian rugby?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

There is nothing wrong with the cattle up front, when Foley was the forwards coach in 2008 we had a good scrum, lineout & restart. As soon as Williams took over we'd have problems with restarts one week the next week that was fixed & the lineout would be a mess & after Foley gets respect for our scrum by dismantling the Boks, Poms & Irish it returned to powder puff.

We've got the cattle all over the park I wouldn't swap any of these blokes Benn Robinson, Stephen Moore, TPN, James Horwill, David Pocock, Will Genia, Kurtley Beale, James O'Conner & Digby Ioane with any other player in their position sure there is other players as good as them.

Williams has to go but so does Deans the ARU should have done a complete cleanout after the Welsh match.

Thats an attitude issue - I would have thought: the fact he could fix it in a week means he knows what he's doing; the fact that there was a different problem the next week means that the players were inventing ways to F it up.

 

[disco]

In 2008 we also had a fully fit pack. Benn Robinson, Dan Vickerman...even Wycliff Palu was starting games! Let's not forget that Michael Foley coached the forward pack which was blown off the field by a shite England team at RWC07.

I'm not saying Foley is a weak forwards coach. But he can't work miracles with weak players, and neither can Jim Williams.

Foley had the 2006 3N, Spring tour & 2007 3N to try & fix what Eddie Jones had left behind & lets not forget Alec Evans was the scrum coach right up until they departed for France as he had broken his ribs in a lineout session & couldn't make the RWC.

Maybe Deans biggest weak point was holding onto his assistant coaches as our backs weren't as good in 2011 as they were in 2010 when Graham was the skills coach.

 

[waratahjesus]

I don't wanna be mr negative, but our backs arnt good. There individuals that lack cohesion. There not what I would class a back line at all yet a collection of backs playing together.

 

[disco]

Definitely better backline when Barnes is at 12.

 

[Slim 293]

Foley had the 2006 3N, Spring tour & 2007 3N to try & fix what Eddie Jones had left behind & lets not forget Alec Evans was the scrum coach right up until they departed for France as he had broken his ribs in a lineout session & couldn't make the RWC.

Maybe Deans biggest weak point was holding onto his assistant coaches as our backs weren't as good in 2011 as they were in 2010 when Graham was the skills coach.

When Graham was skills coach many on here were calling for him to be sacked...

 

[Schadenfreude]

Definitely better backline when Barnes is at 12.

And playing against shit teams... and Genia not box kicking... and when the forwards are dominant...

 

[Newter]

I don't have any first hand knowledge of what Jimbo contributed, really, but I am moved to ask in a non-sarcastic way: Is that the sum total of the regime change after the last 4 years? Jim Williams?

The shape of Wallaby forward play changed dramatically after Jim Williams started coaching in 2008. The year before, John Connolly and Michael Foley had the forwards ranging wide in the midfield - including Sharpe! George Smith was the big point of difference, looking for the swift steal at the ruck. The frontrow had the role of running straight close to the ruck - no skill, no subtlety.

Jim Williams changed all this, and brought in:
- counter-rucking - we've never had this before in the history of professional rugby.
- a tight five that cleans out first and foremost
- a higher dominant tackle rate in tight, especially from the frontrowers

 

[qwerty51]

He also turned our restarts to shit.